http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700140002/President-Buchanan-contemplated-using-Brigham-Young-to-acquire-northern-Mexico-Cuba.html?pg=2

Snippets:

"ST. GEORGE — U.S. President James Buchanan contemplated using Brigham Young and the Mormons in a complex chain of events that would result in the acquisition by the United States of northern Mexico and Cuba, the president of the Mormon History Association said Saturday evening....

...A Presbyterian by faith and a former General Motors executive by profession, MacKinnon is an expert on the Utah War. In 2008, he published "At Sword's Point," a documentary history of the events in 1857, when U.S. President James Buchanan, reacting to rumors from federal officials, sent an armed force to Utah to restore federal authority and replace Brigham Young as territorial governor.

In his address, MacKinnon also debunked a persistent bit of Mormon folklore pertaining to the march of the Army through Salt Lake City after a tenuous peace had been negotiated...

....Earlier in his address, MacKinnon spoke of the Mormon folklore that as the U.S. Army was marching through Salt Lake City, Col. William St. George Cooke passed by the Beehive House residence of Brigham Young and doffed his hat in respect for the Mormon Battalion soldiers who had earlier served under his command.

MacKinnon said, in reality, it was the 10th Infantry's Col. Alexander who doffed his hat for some reason and it was to a small crowd of bystanders. This is according to written reports Young received from his military adjutant, James Ferguson, who was left in Salt Lake City to monitor the behavior of the federal troops."
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And where was BY on June 26, 1858 (the date the US Army marched thru SLC)?? Hmmm, strangely absent. Wonder why he didn't get the Army to help him bring that "rogue band" in Cedar City to justice?

and a quick synopsis to what MacKinnon was referring:

"JOURNAL HISTORY, SATURDAY, JUNE 26, 1858:

"Bro. Andrew Moffatt brought information that Col. Johnston and his army passed G. S. L. City, in the strictest order and discipline. They passed over the river Jordan and camped in the Church pasture. A guard was placed at the bridge to keep the gamblers and blacklegs from following them. While the army was passing through the city there was not a lady to be seen. Col. Philip St. George Cooke passed through with his head uncovered as a token of his respect for the Mormon Battalion. The army was supposed to number 1500 rank and file." [The number was actually closer to 2,500.] (History of Brigham Young, 1858: 734.)

"Gen. Robert T. Burton (Nauvoo Legion), on guard in Salt Lake City on this date journalized . . . “At 10 a.m. troops commenced passing through until 12:30 when those in the rear halted. At 2 p.m. again commenced to pass through until 5:30 p.m.. There are reported to be 600 wagons, 6000 head of animals and 3000 men. They camped over Jordan, west of the city."

http://johnstonsarmy.blogspot.com/

the Mos were set to be Exploited? Looks like...

tho the presenter isn't Mo... I wonder if he has an agenda.

ALL Mo history is suspect, isn't it?

Mos as a pawn in a plot to take Cuba? that's a product of a demented mind, whether Buchanan's or BYs.

Id like to see an index of the papers of the MHA; do they include much abt BY:

a) said to co-mingle his personal funds with church $
b) said to collect $10 for each divorce
c) said to have contracted with the (construction of) the UPRR, used 'church callings' to supply labor.


I Love It when MOs defend BY, Don't YOU?

Mormon Battalion: much like a bunch of wondering Boy Scouts, without a purpose, without Merit Badges at the end of the day.

I'll 'credit' BY with one item: At some point he realized that the Mos, isolated in SLV, weren't going to be prosperous/self-sufficient.Ever.Period. When he did, he stopped playing the Isolation hand, threw JDLee under the bus, cooperated in getting the RR involved - to serve SLC (which it had sorta by-passed at first)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 03:44PM by guynoirprivateeye.

When it was apparent that Lee was the only one who stood between him and a hangman's noose for Young's involvement in Mountain Meadows...

Brigham Young's last years were mostly spent in a penurious existence where he cheated all of his closest acquaintances and attempted to collect all manner of real and imagined debts...

And during the railroad construction era he fleeced everyone with equal-opportunity...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 04:20PM by SL Cabbie.

I've read it 'more' as BY / Utah wanting Statehood; the facts presented seem to support that statehood was Delayed as long as no one was held responsible.

Chances of BY being hanged / MMM? pretty SLIM from here, but... Who Knows? Still would have involved a jury, etc.
Even if judge was biased...

The headline is, "President Buchanan contemplated using Brigham Young to acquire northern Mexico, Cuba"

BTW, unless it's someone with the same name, "Scott Lloyd" is a regular contributor to Mormon Dialogue (the old MA&DHouse with a new façade but most of the same old inmates).

>He presented recent research to show that late in the conflict with Brigham Young and the Mormons, Buchanan contemplated using soldiers already sent from the East and another army to be raised from the California coast to pressure the Mormons to flee to the region of Sonora, Mexico. With a "critical mass" of U.S. refugees thus in place, the United States could then annex the region, as had been done with Texas some 15 years earlier.

>In a way that still remains a mystery, Buchanan's next step would be to acquire the Spanish colony of Cuba.

>He said it raises an important question: " Should historians now consider an additional conspiracy theory alongside the traditional ones that have lamentably troubled the Utah war's origins? I mean the possibility that Buchanan initiated the Utah Expedition in March 1857 to advance international expansion."

First time in a long time I'm having a "WTF" moment...

How about I put in a plug for this book instead (I'm waiting for an improvement in my financial situation before buying this one, but it's right at the top of my lis):

http://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Rebellion-Americas-First-1857-1858/dp/0806141352/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303942229&sr=8-1

What I am nearly certain of is there's a likely conspiracy to promote this story at the time Will and Dave's book just hit the bookseller's...

SLC
Who visited Mormon Dialogue for its discussion on the Bigley/Bagley work (I know, I know, more TrainWrecksRUs stuff). There's a howler there that claims Brigham Young remained loyal to the Union while General Johnston enlisted in the Confederacy... The poster seems unaware that Young's "loyalty" to the Union was "secured" by artillery at Camp Douglas that were trained on the Beehive and Lion Houses...

MacKinnon is arguing against the theory that Buchanan was going to 'flush' the LDS south....

"At that time, March 1857, replacing Brigham Young as governor and restoration of federal authority were the president's objectives. However, once Buchanan realized in mid-November 1857 that effective Mormon military resistance was a reality, and he would have to reinforce the Utah Expediton, armed confrontation in the Rockies provided a field for manipulation."

I think that is just a poorly worded statement. I think he was saying that since Buchanon was going to have to reinforce the Utah Expedition anyways (because of the winter of 1857 harassment by the Mormons)....why not go full boar and drive the Morg into Mexico.

I suspect this was a rambling 'course of action' discussion that had little 'meat' to it....and now someone wants to make a big deal of it.

Hell, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was only 10 years old.

I think these were the confidential ramblings of a president...perhaps even wishful thinking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2011 07:02PM by jw the inquizzinator.

For UT to become involved (i.e., send troops) to the Civil War (how could ANY war be 'civil'??) might have decimated the male (Penishood) population of UT; it certainly would have been hated by the Mo Royalty/Elite, wouldn't it?

It the Royalty wanted an Out/Gimme 'college exemption, haha' on participating, that would have enraged the rank-and-file, wouldn't it?

The 'Civil War' was a NO-Brainer for Mos to STAY OUT OF... PLUS:
BY requested (and it happened) that UTAH was admitted as...A SLAVE TERRITORY!

General William S. Harney was the first commander of the Army to Utah. He intended to capture Brigham Young and the twelve apostles and execute them. The only reason Col. Johnston took over was because of pre-civil war unrest in Kansas and Harney was diverted there.

It makes no sense that President Buchanan had plans to use Brigham Young when he had selected Harney to remove him.

The Life and Military Services of Gen. William Selby Harney, by L. U. Reavis, 1878, pages 276 to 277
http://books.google.com/books?id=ueIEAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=intitle:The+intitle:Life+intitle:and+intitle:Military+intitle:Services+intitle:of+intitle:Gen+intitle:William+intitle:Selby+intitle:Harney&hl=en&ei=uWblTaGGJ4PW0QGF76CiBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


A Crisis Averted? General Harney and the Change in Command of the Utah Expedition, by Wilford Hill Lecheminant, Utah Historical Quarterly, Volume 51, number 1, 1983, begins on page 30
http://utah.ptfs.com/awweb/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=3

Harney wanted to capture & execute !?

OH MY FREAKIN' GOSH....

Can U imagine what the Backlash on that would 'might' have been?

why... the mormons would Still be crying persecution!

oh, Wait. they are.

That, Ladies & Germs... would have been SO UNREAL!

was he out in front on this or 'Acting on Orders'????
will we ever know??

"was he out in front on this or 'Acting on Orders'???? will we ever know??"

It was not his orders to do it, but it was his intention. His biography in the first link explains it some.

The best I have found is in the Utah Historical Quarterly article. Wilford Hill Lecheminant goes into more detail.