The G.A.'s. This is the question that runs over and over again in my mind.

I know it has been discussed here, that lying for the lord is just fine, etc. but I just cannot understand how they really FEEL inside or sleep at night, when their continued lies are constantly tearing families like mine apart.

They have to know that they are huge liars or the truth would be out there for all to see.

There is only one reason for hiding things in mormon church history and changing doctrines that I can think of: to retain faithful members, and why does it need to be hidden if it is the truth?

It takes lies to hide truth and if the truth were not so ugly they would be presenting it in Sunday School. They know full well they are covering up and lying big time. How does their consciences do this? I really want to know.

M O N E Y

Yeah, but I have heard them quote from the bible how liars go to hell; are they honestly not one bit worried about that?

Of course they wouldn't call it that. They would call it the result of "correllation," inspired consensus, confidential deliberations and conversations that are "too sacred" to be aired in public. Let's be real. They plan and scheme. They knowingly manipulate the faith of the gullible flock. And they really do seem to enjoy the unearned adulation and celebrity status that they possess in their Little kingdom of Mormondumb.

Sure, the active, true-believing population of Mormons is relatively small in comparison with the larger nations of the world.

My best guess is that the population of actively devout, church-going Mormons is in the range of about 3 million to 4 million.

To put that in perspective, this places the little kingdom that the GAs rule over roughly on par (in population terms) with nations such as Ireland, Norway and New Zealand--and significantly bigger than nations like Mongolia, Iceland, Tibet, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia...and many others.

And here's the kicker: This little oligarchical click of the self-annointed and self-appointed General Authorities, a.k.a., "Mouthpieces of Gawd," get their subjects/suckers to pay a 10% tax and submit such revenues into the total control of the oligarchy, without any accountability or transparency whatsoever. I think we can all do the math from there.... ;o)

But since all they have to do is click their fingers to get some obsequious TBM to do their bidding, maybe "click" is appropriate too. ;o)

that they also frolic in frocks when they're not in the public eye. ;o)

The GAs don't want to burst their bubble. It's a good way to live, they rationalize. People's friends and family are all tbm, being tbm keeps them busy and productive. So what if the doctrine behind it is false?

So, it's hard to imagine, but the GAs don't care if the church is true or false. They figure they are doing everyone a favor by perpetuating a way of life and a family tradition. And for this they deserve to be paid, and paid well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2011 09:27AM by dr5.

Wasn't it Packer who said something to the effect that not all truth is useful? They are so conditioned to Lying for the Lord by the time they reach GA status that they've discarded their consciences long ago.

I think they truly believe every bit of it and if it doesn't quite make sense, they believe their god capable of ongoing revelation will eventually reveal something that will tie all the loose ends together.

I don't think they REALLY see it as "lying" for the lord. Just more stretching the truth as once it's all revealed it will all make sense then, anyway.

So I don't think that on any level these men see it as a problem or conflict and I certainly don't think it keeps any of them up at night.

CateS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they truly believe every bit of it and if
> it doesn't quite make sense, they believe their
> god capable of ongoing revelation will eventually
> reveal something that will tie all the loose ends
> together.
>
I have to disagree. The Big 15 know they never have received revelation; I think it was Larry King who asked Gordo if he was a prophet and Gordo replied, "I am sustained as such". They know that Jesus doesn't join them in their temple meetings. They know the BoA is a fake. They're justifying themselves as keeping The Corporation afloat until they can hand the responsibility off to the next generation - don't want any problems on MY watch.

I agree with Jan. They obviously cover things up, and if it were all true, they would have NO NEED to do such a thing.

The coverup itself is proof of the deception.

No normal person ever feels the need to cover up truth, UNLESS they have an agenda, and the GA's most certainly do.

And their agenda, top of the list, is "The Mormon Church is True", no matter what.

In the beginning JS lied to cover his own sins. Now they lie to cover up all of the past in the church that true but ugly. So there actually exists a coverup on 2 levels.

And they CANNOT miss the fact from that from within those truths they so desperately try to hide, lies the fact that the church is a total fraud. They know! You don't cover something up if you have nothing to hide!

I had a one on one with Tom Perry last Dec. and believe me, I saw the fear in his eyes as I questioned him and pinned him down, HE KNOWS!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2011 10:46AM by think4u.

think4u Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I had a one on one with Tom Perry last Dec. and
> believe me, I saw the fear in his eyes as I
> questioned him and pinned him down, HE KNOWS!

Or else Tom Perry really believes it and doesn't know how to answer your questions. The look may have been more a look of desperation than fear because he wants you to believe too. It may be their positive experiences with Mormonism make them afraid to deny it even when their minds see the problems.

Can you tell us more about the one on one with L Tom?

Read it here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,49768,49768#msg-49768

I came directly home Dec. 6th and posted every word I could remember, so I would not forget. I will repost it for that those that are interested. It is in my files somewhere. He lied to me, and I called him out. I will try to find it soon and repost it- one of the most amazing days of my life, honestly! Maybe I can just do a search on the board here back to Dec. 6, and copy and paste from there. I know it is somewhere.

Thanks, another guy, yes, there it is , and every single word is true, at least as best I could recall just a couple of hours after it happened.

I think they're all atheists who figured out at an early age that there's money in a religious con. After all no one is making them prove that gawd exists. Ya just gotta believe.

They're just a bunch of money grubbing old bastards who get their kicks out of brain washing children and guilt tripping adults. And cashing tithing checks.

It definitely seems that becoming an apostle screws up your mind. Look at poor Jeffrey "Droopy Dog" Holland.

Why does Holland keep waving about that old fake Book of Mormon?
He now knows it's a fake, surely...

Ever here the phrase ' you can buy anything in this world for money" The most truth you will ever learn in the temple!

That's all most of these people have ever known. For the most part they were raised in the religion and have had experiences which confirm in their minds the truthfulness of the LDS Church. They've probably seen miracles they attribute to the authority of the priesthood. They've had what they believe is inspiration in leading the church. I think we are fooling ourselves if we believe they are being dishonest about their faith.

The river begins at 15 East South Temple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2011 10:57AM by kookoo4kokaubeam.

Isn't DeNile a river near Africa?

Part of the answer could be that they have lived their whole life in a protective Mormon bubble and they don't know anything different.

Like others have said they have so much invested that the alternative is just too bad to even consider.

I'm hoping one day soon, one of the higher ups will confess thats its all a fraud.

Hope springs eternal.

Lets see what happens with nitwit mitt in the months ahead.

From what I can tell and from what I have heard from others, Mormons are not respected nor liked and are often thought of as members of a cult.

While I don't condone what Hofmann did or his methods, you gotta give him credit for trying to publically expose the fraud. That was his ultimate goal.

This is a really good question. Maybe there are experts in psychology who can make a good guess at their motivation. If I try to be serious, and stare into my crystal ball I see this...

1. These guys are big shots. They have great abilities and have climbed up through an organization they have been part of their whole life. It is their life. Their families are tied into it as well almost as tightly as they are.
2. They get paid in unusual ways and there is a strong motivation for them to protect the organization. GBH has (had) two of his kids serving on boards of directors for church owned companies. One kid is a seventy. Holland's son is president of UVU (not church owned, but the board of regents probably looked favorably on his pedigree and got a phone call when he applied). TSM has a son with only a master's degree on staff at BYU. Etc, etc. They get paid in diverse ways, so to speak.
3. They have no options for anything other than retirement in shame if they expose anything. Yes, they know. They've given talks indicating they know the bad shit.
4. They believe they are doing "good" and that helps assuage the knowledge that they haven't seen Jesus or other such stuff.
5. They probably worry about what will happen to all the "little children" if they "come out". Utah would go wild, marriages would end, people would smoke pot, cats and dogs would be living together, etc, if they came out and said it wasn't "true". All these people living lives where someone told them everything to do (including what underwear to wear!) would have a huge problem coping with the real world. They know this and don't want this to happen.

So they lie. Every so often one of two of them talk privately and commisurate with each other. But mostly they ignore it and run the business.

Don't we all have mormon friends and family, like us, who truly believe in mormonism, and have safely discarded all anti stuff as lies? Well, as they move up the chain, I'd say they get more insulated from "facts" rather than exposed to them. The group power and mentality becomes the responsible factor, not the individual. And if you're convinced it's God's kingdom on Earth, it's easy to overlook and/or discard stuff you don't want to know as you move along with the herd.

I think they believe it, even if they think "answers" to the hard questions haven't been answered by God yet.

Also, the higher they get in the religion the more they become surrounded by "yes" men. I'm sure, if Holland, for example, asks an LDS "scholar" if the Book of Mormon is plausible, he'd get some sort of weird essay that sounds alot like the Conference talk he gave a while back. It's because this "scholar" is a yes-man.

All of them are surrounded by men, and perhaps a couple of women, who are more than eager to agree with their points of view and who will not give them an honest, well-balanced answer. I doubt any of the General Authorities ever go to the internet for anything, but are given guided tours of specific websites by their assistance. They don't see what's said on exMormon.org, they get reports from assistants about the evil, offended apostates.

My opinion about the LDS Church is that it's become a self-sustaining beast by brainwashing nearly everyone from top to bottom. I don't think most LDS leaders or laypeople are out to deceive. I think they deceive because they are deceived. Blind leading the blind.

I could be wrong.