I am a UK semi-lurker. (i did post for a while)

I left the morg 16 years ago, and chose to leave it alone on the grounds it would leave me alone.

My wife remained as a dedicated mormon for the early years (nothing on sunday, day or rest etc)

Almost divorced, i had the two children (2 and 3 years old a the time) one on each arm walking out the door when she asked why we were leaving . Even then i couldent say "the damn church"...........it was hell.

Our children are now 16/17 and .....we are still together.

Over the years i banned the children from attending church in writing to the head of church health and safety in the uk. This is a long story involving peodaphilia in the local ward, lies, the church saying police were involved (they lied about that) and me doing a investigation resulting in ....well.....a long story !!
needless to say my wife was furious but i had cornered her. She couldent argue over their safety.


Over the years , My wife wouldent let it go, and turned around a couple of years ago with the usual "can the missionaries come to dinner"

I drew a line under it and said enough is enough. They wont leave me alone so lets open those old wounds.

My point about the lurking is this...... I have been coming here for a few years.

At first it was for support, stories, peer understanding and that essential mental condition "feeling normal"

This developed into a deep seeded "i want facts" so i lurk to get historical facts.

I read and research, and after two years, i would say i have a comprehensive understanding and timeline in my head of the church history and cult control methods.

So, like every good learner, i have used their methods on my wife.
Milk before meat sort of stuff.

Lets just say, she is now on the fence. Misses church on sunday and is now a relaxed person. In fact...... a different person.

My next objective is to get her to stop wearing garments, and i am close.


I could go on how i have de-programmed her for two years and i will say this to anyone thinking about it....., it is damn hard to de-convert someone without letting them know you are doing it.

Now when She asks questions and i can rattle the answers off my head.


But the Lurking was the key for me. i cant post because i see the same stuff over and over again, boyfriend nevermo, girlfriend mo, husband leaves morg, wife and kids dig in.
It really breaks my heart, and the simple answer is -- break up, divorce her etc..

But i cant say it.

I have struggled enormously with the morg, and i cannot even begin to say how many times divorce was the only path i could see.

My curiosity has turned to anger. the lies, the control, the manipulation.

It is a cult , an insidous cult that damages families.


Lurking keeps me sane, keeps me in touch and allows me to look through the glass at other people lifes without getting too angry.


Just to give you some highlights of my LDS life. And these are long stories......i could type all night ... These are in no particular order,,,,,

1) Lied, manipulated and controlled when i was in it. (EG Put on marrage guidance course to make up numbers and support people who needed it, and then found they had decided WE needed it and we were put on it for our benefit.)

2) bully boy bishop called and tells me how to run my life -- i leave church.

3) bully boy bishop takes money from good members in ward to fund ward building project. A couple in the ward had an autistic son who smashed house up, (some members take out loans for this)

4) bully boy bishop pays himself to do the work (fraud ,, oh yes, and grants were avaliable from the local council but then he wouldnt be able to do the work because he is a cowboy builder)

5) i am asked some 3 years later to go to stake and discuss this period of bully boy bishop with stake president --- which i did.
i gave him all barrells and asked him point blank why he did not stop the fraud.... i watched that man squirm.(long story)

6) daughters baptism at 8 years old (i am not asked for permission)

7) daughter turns 12 YW camp on agenda, I find out about peadophile issues in local ward. Phone church head office in UK.
Did you know they have special phones that cant recieve incoming calls ? especially when you demand legally to speak to a specific person. (long story)

8) constructed letter sent asking for child protection policies.

9) follow up - banning of children from attending

10) ban wife from working with children in local ward after i get abusive calls from a mother after a YW activity and my wife was there as a YW councillor.

11) demand bishops attendence, and get a grovelling man with regard to church health and safety.

12)threw pushy annoxious church members out of my home , i am now an abusive preisthood holder "who needs something done about me" ward council called and meetings held about me.


i could go on..............

I think ther best thing i achieved was getting the bully boy bishop sacked from his paid church job after i told the stake president about the fraud, which he continued to do well after leaving the bishop position. In fact, he got himself in the position of stake maintenance man. He picked and paid the contractors to fix the ward buildings.
He called me out of the blue saying "we can both make money out of this , i have set up my own business, i will sub-contract the work to you and then pay myself from the church funds for the job. "You make and i make."
I explained i was not insured, did not have my own business and was not registred. He said it didnt matter. he wouldent tell anyone.
I was so damn furious. This prick had scolded me in the church as a bishop , and was now on the take.

why he thought i would go along with it is beyond me..


Anyway, i am digressing again.....


i lurk because THE DAMN FUCKING MORG DOES NOT LEAVE ME ALONE.
It continues to be in the background... it damages...it eats away at sanity and drived wedges into families...

i have NEVER come across such a negative corporation.



sorry about the venting....and oh yes.... they did get me when i was down and vunerable....a difficult period in my life.

I'm sending you my support and best wishes.

Stay the course and accept my admiration.

That's the best part of posting. You can let it all out.

Good luck with your deconversion process. I was a lucky fuck whose wife left with me.

My heart breaks for all the ruined relationships out there.

And vent, vent, vent all you want...

Just a short update.

got talking with the wife, the usual stuff to do with "maybe the historians are wrong", or maybe they "translated the rosetta stone incorrectly" and the book of abraham is correct....as i say...usual stuff.

I sat with my wife tonight for two hours discussing the morg.


for the first time, since i left the morg, we sat and discussed that very dark moment in my/our lifes when i walked away.

I think that posting here last night drove me to bring it back up and i dumped and vented at her as well.

she listened and we compared viewpoints.

i discusssed the manipulation and how i felt, and the very dark sundays when she would come back from church screaming and shouting at me - even throwing things at me - becuase i was condeming her and she wouldent achieve the celestial kingdom.


We / I have never discussed this before in all the 16 years since i left.

After an hour and a half she asked directly , "how did you stop wearing garments ?"

She asked because she was wondering how and what it was like.

and she also said it was difficult to stop attending as she had family in the church.

i really do think progress has been made....she is struggling that it may not be true but her critical mind is finally awake.

i am not convinced she will leave, but i think maybe semi-inactivity may be a start....


i never wanted to hurt her or make life difficult for her but it is almost painfull for me to expose the lies to her.

i am essentially destroying her beliefs, but it really was either a "them or us" scenario.

she has asked me directly "should i leave the church?"

I have answered

"if i told you to leave i would be as bad as them for dominating your life and controlling you. you must make your own mind up about what YOU want, i have simply given you all the facts and made you see what everyone outside of your bubble can see"


She has realised tonight she would have no friends if she leaves and she would be alone.(other than me)
She also recognises the other members are not true friends.


As i type this, sitting here, i feel bad about it all.
i am in fact upsetting her and destroying her belief structure...even to the point where i am considering divorce may have been easier on her.

oh what a tangled web we weave.......

I read this forum because I think, "Maybe someday I will know the right thing to say and have the perfect opportunity to say it and the people I care about will WAKE up." Of course you know that it doesn't work that way. But I don't think you should feel guilty for making her question (and let's hope, give up) her beliefs. She hasn't been told the whole truth. From your update it sounds like she is so there, but fear of the unknown, fear of loss is holding her back.

I think the videos on www.iamanexmormon.com are incredible, sincere, and would be inspiring for someone standing where you both are today. There is even a couple on there that talks about their marriage surviving this crisis of faith. All of these people are living proof that the truth WILL set you free.

I always find posts like this interesting. To "hear" the pain and struggle, and only someone who has walked that road can appreciate. Isn't it interesting that we can share lives for a couple of decades, and can even be good friends, but still we never have those deep full exposure heart-to-heart talks? That deep talk I had with my DW made all of the difference. For once, the church was not part of our relationship, it was just us, and we both talked, and most importantly, we both listened.

It is not your fault JS lied. Your DW gave her heart to what she thought was the gospel. But it is not real, and what can come after can be now that she knows the truth.

I have no answers. Just support for a fellow traveler that is on a similar road.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2011 11:03PM by luminouswatcher.

hi curiousgirl.
i have watched many of those ex-mormon videos and i find them moving and heartbreaking at times.

i finally got my wife to watch one start to finish.
It was one posted as a link here by someone, a long 20 minute one about a young lad who had served a mission,seen his younger brother die, and then stood there in the morgue as his mother belived they could raise him from the dead.

My wife watched it all the way through but struggled to make the leap of understanding how they could belive they could raise him from the dead.
As i pointed out to her, she belives in smith as a prophet and the urim and thumin rubbish as opposed to the magic hat.

Its just a matter of prospective.