Interesting tidbits and experiences dealing with a mormon co-worker:

So, I work as the IT guy at an accounting firm in California. I was always friends with a mormon guy at work. I knew he was weird, but when he told me he was mormon, I put two and two together. His quiet, soft-spoken style which is similar to all very religious (or cultish in this case) men I have come into contact with. They're not exactly the most butch group of men. Well, this guy is gay TOO.

I also knew that he looked at porn at lunch. Gay porn too. But, as a liberal and libertarian, I kept this to myself, only secretly smiling as I saw some of his files. Well, one day he got nervous and spilled the beans. He said as a mormon he's used to telling the church the most intimate of details when I asked him why he's apologizing to me. He said that he's a mormon and that he's never acted on his thoughts. I thought this was weird, but shrugged it off. (I have gay family members! Nothing is wrong with being gay.) His wife too has caught him pleasuring himself to gay porn. (Why would you marry an obviously gay guy?)

One time over lunch I asked him if he wanted me to make him some tea. And he went into this long tirade about how mormons don't drink tea and that it's against his religion. A simple "no" would have been fine. This did irritate me.

I mentioned one time to him in a conversation that I have a black relative (or half-black half-white cousin) and he asked me if my grandparents had an issue with having black family members. I responded, "no, why would they?" He said nothing back. Well, come to find out, one of his brothers married an Asian woman from Japan. Wait, a black relative needed some type of approval, but not the Asian woman in his family? I was so close to going off on him for his double standards.

Despite my differences with him, unfortunately, he was let go in the recent economic downturn. I dislike his thought process, but he is genuinely a good guy. And I do feel for him and do offer him accounting jobs that I hear of. I even had him do my taxes. But, dang, I was talking to him on the phone after he was let go and he told me that his wife doesn't work (by choice too). Neither one works and they have four kids. What's wrong with this picture? And he is a conservative Republican that hates "Big Government" and yet he's taking unemployment insurance. Evidently, "big government" is fine when it cuts him checks. I challenged him on this and he told me that he's paid for his unemployment insurance, so it wasn't a handout from the government according to him. This is NOT true and he knows this as an accountant. He's paid for about 11 weeks of unemployment benefits, not a year and half's worth. Don't complain about Obama ruining this country and him being a socialist, when he's a self-made millionaire and taxpayers are feeding your family.

Other odds and ends: He pushed his 18 year old daughter to marry a 28 year old man. This guy is a complete @sshole and has not visible redeeming qualities. Evidently, they have low standards in the mormon community for dating as they seem to push the young ones to get married too early. By 19, she already had three fiances (WTF?). And did I mention the new son-in-law is a jerk and very unattractive? And to think, this was the daughter he was throwing at me. I've too made it clear on many occasions during lunch breaks that I'm only interested in girls that want to making something of themselves and not just pop out kids. I told him that in those words.

The funny part of this is that my co-worker's wife, who has no education, is getting on their new son-in-law's case about not finishing school. What about you and your daughter?

And did I mention his wife is a complete homophobe? She was cracking jokes to her husband about their daughters' school having a pro-gay club. Evidently, she thinks it's just for orgies and not emotional support for kids with parents like her.

Oh yeah, also his daughter dropped out from a community college to have her newborn. Did she really need to drop out to have the child? She could have done a semester more before having the child. Poor kid. I'd hate to have those parents and that religion.

And to think, in the months prior to my co-worker's grandson's birth, he was getting uneasy about being a grandfather at 46. I told him in no uncertain terms that she should be focused on her education instead of getting pregnant. No response from him.
<Venting over>

Up is down and black is white. No one questions.

Sounds like a typical LDS family to me.

What really has me scratching my head is why he would look at porn at work (not too bright).

They don't seem to get that their beliefs are the things causing them to make bad decisions. They are a train wreck waiting to happen.

Sounds like you have been a good friend in spite of his weirdness. You've had a glimpse .... into... The Mormon Zone (cue tabernacle choir).

He looked at porn at work to keep his wife from not knowing.

And some of the graphic images, are of himself at full arousal. And in every image he has underwear on. I thought nothing of this then. But from reading this board for a good part of a year, I now come to suspect that those were his mormon undergarments.

He's pious even when looking at porn. Gotta give the guy credit.

Thanks for the nice words too. I know that a lot of straight males in my position would have cleaned his clock after hearing some of the things he has said to me. He always used to say I am attractive which creeped me out but I thought of it only as a compliment and nothing more. Now that I know his preference, well, I'm speechless.

Also, what's with mormons and blond haired children? Maybe it's just this guy, but he loves my hair and he always told me his children are blond. This is NOT true. He had those corny Sears family portraits all over his office and not one of his family members is a blond. NOT a one. Their hair is so dark, that if they bleached it, it would be orange and not blond.

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting tidbits and experiences dealing with a
> mormon co-worker:
>
> So, I work as the IT guy at an accounting firm in
> California. I was always friends with a mormon guy
> at work. I knew he was weird, but when he told me
> he was mormon, I put two and two together. His
> quiet, soft-spoken style which is similar to all
> very religious (or cultish in this case) men I
> have come into contact with. They're not exactly
> the most butch group of men. Well, this guy is gay
> TOO.
>
> I also knew that he looked at porn at lunch. Gay
> porn too. But, as a liberal and libertarian, I
> kept this to myself, only secretly smiling as I
> saw some of his files. Well, one day he got
> nervous and spilled the beans. He said as a mormon
> he's used to telling the church the most intimate
> of details when I asked him why he's apologizing
> to me. He said that he's a mormon and that he's
> never acted on his thoughts. I thought this was
> weird, but shrugged it off. (I have gay family
> members! Nothing is wrong with being gay.) His
> wife too has caught him pleasuring himself to gay
> porn. (Why would you marry an obviously gay guy?)
>
> One time over lunch I asked him if he wanted me to
> make him some tea. And he went into this long
> tirade about how mormons don't drink tea and that
> it's against his religion. A simple "no" would
> have been fine. This did irritate me.
>
> I mentioned one time to him in a conversation that
> I have a black relative (or half-black half-white
> cousin) and he asked me if my grandparents had an
> issue with having black family members. I
> responded, "no, why would they?" He said nothing
> back. Well, come to find out, one of his brothers
> married an Asian woman from Japan. Wait, a black
> relative needed some type of approval, but not the
> Asian woman in his family? I was so close to going
> off on him for his double standards.
>
> Despite my differences with him, unfortunately, he
> was let go in the recent economic downturn. I
> dislike his thought process, but he is genuinely a
> good guy. And I do feel for him and do offer him
> accounting jobs that I hear of. I even had him do
> my taxes. But, dang, I was talking to him on the
> phone after he was let go and he told me that his
> wife doesn't work (by choice too). Neither one
> works and they have four kids. What's wrong with
> this picture? And he is a conservative Republican
> that hates "Big Government" and yet he's taking
> unemployment insurance. Evidently, "big
> government" is fine when it cuts him checks. I
> challenged him on this and he told me that he's
> paid for his unemployment insurance, so it wasn't
> a handout from the government according to him.
> This is NOT true and he knows this as an
> accountant. He's paid for about 11 weeks of
> unemployment benefits, not a year and half's
> worth. Don't complain about Obama ruining this
> country and him being a socialist, when he's a
> self-made millionaire and taxpayers are feeding
> your family.
>
> Other odds and ends: He pushed his 18 year old
> daughter to marry a 28 year old man. This guy is a
> complete @sshole and has not visible redeeming
> qualities. Evidently, they have low standards in
> the mormon community for dating as they seem to
> push the young ones to get married too early. By
> 19, she already had three fiances (WTF?). And did
> I mention the new son-in-law is a jerk and very
> unattractive? And to think, this was the daughter
> he was throwing at me. I've too made it clear on
> many occasions during lunch breaks that I'm only
> interested in girls that want to making something
> of themselves and not just pop out kids. I told
> him that in those words.
>
> The funny part of this is that my co-worker's
> wife, who has no education, is getting on their
> new son-in-law's case about not finishing school.
> What about you and your daughter?
>
> And did I mention his wife is a complete
> homophobe? She was cracking jokes to her husband
> about their daughters' school having a pro-gay
> club. Evidently, she thinks it's just for orgies
> and not emotional support for kids with parents
> like her.
>
> Oh yeah, also his daughter dropped out from a
> community college to have her newborn. Did she
> really need to drop out to have the child? She
> could have done a semester more before having the
> child. Poor kid. I'd hate to have those parents
> and that religion.
>
> And to think, in the months prior to my
> co-worker's grandson's birth, he was getting
> uneasy about being a grandfather at 46. I told him
> in no uncertain terms that she should be focused
> on her education instead of getting pregnant. No
> response from him.
>

First of all, he is lucky he didn't get caught at work doing the picture thing. Lots of people get fired for less.

I think he had/has a crush on you? He would have to know the IT guy knows the kind of stuff people are doing on their computers. Maybe he wanted you to see them?

The blond hair thing is odd. Maybe he thought that mentioning his kids would make it not weird to be talking about your hair. Maybe his kids had blondish hair when they were babies. Who knows.

Who knows if you saw his garmies in those pics. He probably doesn't own regular whitey tighties or boxers.

I'm wondering if he is awkwardly reaching out - trying to explore his gay side. If so, he will no doubt keep this completely separate from his straight Mormon family man life. His wife will not figure out anything but will vaguely wonder why she doesn't feel his passion. He is invested too deep and too many people would be hurt if he really was gay. Maybe he isn't gay. Who knows. Lots of LDS men seem effeminate who are straight.

It's not just the blond fetish. He likes colored eyes too. He's so proud that his whole family has colored eyes (i.e. not brown or black eyes). I remember exactly what he said as it sounded so stupid. "My eyes are green and I like them that way." As if he had control over his eye color.

I wouldn't be surprised if he has a crush on me. He likes anything it seems under 30 years of age, including high schoolers. I asked my brother, a psychiatrist, about pedophiles. And he said pedophilia is based in immaturity. And immature my ex-coworker is. He collects Harry Potter DVDs and books. One time I told him about a special on mormons made by PBS and he responded, "I'm not sure I can watch it as it might say some things not positive about the church." He sounded like a little kid that needs his parent's approval to do something. I'm always having to remind myself that this is a grown man talking.

He does accounting for a chiropractor I know and set him up with. And he was sad to lose the chiropractor, who moved states, probably because the guy is attractive to him. To this day he still asks me about Dr. ----- and whether or not he has found a wife (he's in late 20's). This guy is a chick magnet (sorry for my sexism ladies), so I wouldn't be surprised if he has a crush on him too. One way the chiropractor paid my ex-coworker back was by performing free back adjustments. I bet you he was liking his hands all on his body too.

Other observations about this guy:

He's so eager to outdo me when it comes to battle of the wills. I told him early on that I'm a vegetarian. Before I told him though, he ALWAYS ate meat dishes at lunch time. He then told me after my declaration that the BoM tells mormons to eat meat sparingly which he claims he does.

I also don't drink. I have nothing against it, I just wasn't raised in a family with drinkers so it never looked appealing to me. I told him that I was that close to getting some rum in Jamaica and he told me not to because that's one thing we share in common, abstinence from alcohol. (WEIRD)

I think he's completely jealous that I'm sexually "free." I have had many girlfriends that he knows of (through Facebook). And I just know that he thinks I'm having intimate relations with them all. He asked me one time if I'm embarrassed seeing exes around since they've seen me naked. After a few seconds, I responded that if I did go that far with them, why would I be embarrassed? If they've seen me naked, I've probably seen them naked too. What's so embarrassing about that? I think this is more immaturity on his party. He likes to claim to be naive, but no, it's immaturity.

He thinks highly of my mother. Which sounds good, right? Well, it isn't. I told him that my mom has a PhD and he acted like he just saw Elvis come back from the dead. He thinks it's impossible for a woman to have her own career. I always reference my mother when I'd drop subtle hints that he's selling his daughters short, by not demanding more from them. Both of his daughters started out at a community college, which is fine. But I'm willing to bet that his son will go straight to BYU, like he did.

His poor, second oldest daughter just left for Idaho. (There's no reason to leave beautiful California for Idaho, especially for a young person IMHO.) I didn't know that BYU has a school in Idaho. And it makes me sick to my stomach because I believe she's there trying to find a husband more than she is trying to get her education. I told him that I hope she comes back with a degree and not a baby. He said nothing. I mean that and that's the only time I think I have ever been as direct with him on his backwardness.

I also told him that his daughter isn't that much younger than me. And when I was in high school, people pitied and laughed at girls that got pregnant in and right after high school. I thought maybe a little shame might make him rethink this. So far, his second daughter hasn't gotten pregnant.

Again, I would like to say that I do feel for this guy. I have maintained a relationship with him even after others have pretty much parted ways with him after his release. I wish he could live his life openly, as a gay man. And I wish he didn't wall off his brain from independent thought.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all, he is lucky he didn't get caught at
> work doing the picture thing. Lots of people get
> fired for less.
>
> I think he had/has a crush on you? He would have
> to know the IT guy knows the kind of stuff people
> are doing on their computers. Maybe he wanted you
> to see them?
>
> The blond hair thing is odd. Maybe he thought that
> mentioning his kids would make it not weird to be
> talking about your hair. Maybe his kids had
> blondish hair when they were babies. Who knows.
>
> Who knows if you saw his garmies in those pics. He
> probably doesn't own regular whitey tighties or
> boxers.
>
> I'm wondering if he is awkwardly reaching out -
> trying to explore his gay side. If so, he will no
> doubt keep this completely separate from his
> straight Mormon family man life. His wife will not
> figure out anything but will vaguely wonder why
> she doesn't feel his passion. He is invested too
> deep and too many people would be hurt if he
> really was gay. Maybe he isn't gay. Who knows.
> Lots of LDS men seem effeminate who are straight.

Wow...poor guy sounds like he's all over the place. I don't know how you haven't punched his lights out yet. Then again, he is only repeating what the church tells him to without really thinking about it.

punch his lights out!! crickey!! what the heLL??? that aint right!

also i worked with Clairol for a number of years... and the most sold Blonde coloring was in Utah!! after California...but there are a hellofa lot more people in Ca than Utah!

bignevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> punch his lights out!! crickey!! what the heLL???
> that aint right!
>
> also i worked with Clairol for a number of
> years... and the most sold Blonde coloring was in
> Utah!! after California...but there are a hellofa
> lot more people in Ca than Utah!


Maybe it is a mormon thing... blond fetish. I guess it's "pure and delightsome."

Other things that had me scratching the back of my head:

He was a virgin when he married his wife. Knowing his personality and his inability to lie, I believe this 100%. His close-minded, homophobe wife though wasn't. She told him she was raped by a man. "Rape" in her lexicon means seduced. I should have told him that no crime occurred and that temptation was too much for your wife. Believe me, she's no shrinking violet. She enjoyed every bit of the "rape."

Has a severe persecution complex for mormons. When the Republican Senator Larry Craig was busted for soliciting gay sex in a bathroom, he told me that if the senator was mormon the whole country would know the story. The problem is is that this was a major news story across the nation.

He's staunchly pro-American. He has an American flag on his truck and in front of his house. He just married a Canadian though which is fine. But I can't forget him getting bent out of shape when he heard that some Canadian American actor got a tattoo of the US flag in the shape of a maple leaf. He thought that this defamed the US flag.

He's terrified of his wife. I told him I had a peanut butter cake with peanut butter frosting at my cousin's wedding. He said he loves peanut butter, so I offered to get him the recipe. He then said, "what will my wife say? What if she asks where I got it?" I really wanted to tell him to blow it off or that she wouldn't ask such an unnecessary question. Eventually, to clear his conscience so that he wouldn't have to lie to his wife, I emailed it to him. He would then tell her that he saw the recipe in the email if she asked where he got it from.

I challenged him early on in our friendship about blacks' late acceptance into the mormon church. I basically asked why did the rules change before tax time (I heard the church was going to lose tax exempt status for excluding blacks). I also said, "Isn't right always right? Why should you change the rules to keep up with the times?" He just KNEW I was skeptical at his answers and admitted that he wasn't the best voice for his church. Every conversation from then on about doctrine from the church, he prefaced his answer with "in my opinion" or "in my humble opinion" to deflect further questions and to leave him wiggle room in case he told me something inaccurate.

When some mormon prophet died two years ago, he was heartbroken. When I heard that this guy was a prophet, I had so many questions that I'm sure would make his head spin. I guess he could read in my eyes where I was going, so he preemptively reacted by saying the prophets guides mormons and that he's not to question his abilities.

Despite his porn watching, he had the audacity or nerve to recall going to dinners with wife and family and seeing women with their cleavage out. This guy has no introspection whatsoever.

I was his shoulder to lean on when he was getting fired, despite being 21 years his junior. The bosses here made him reapply for his job (an 18 year employee too!). I told him this was a snub and the he should start looking for jobs. This got him worried, so he spoke to one of his bosses who reassured him that this was standard procedure. Well, he ended up getting fired and he was just SHOCKED that he was let go. I think the mormon church poisoned his brain into steadfastly trusting all kinds of authority. I told him he was a goner, right after leaving college and barely entering the workforce. And yet he didn't see the pink slip coming.

re: he is jealous of your sexual freedom

I have noticed this in utah around openly gay men and closeted gay mormons. The closeted ones seem to have a real problem with people who are gay (or sexual I guess) without being all conflicted about it and repentant. I don't know what it will take for him to see that he built his life on a lie, but if you can find a way to help him I think you should. It isn't your responsibility to help a grown man figure out that he is gay, but it would be a good thing to do if you can pull it off. His life sucks, and his wife probably isn't happy either, which makes for some pretty damn unhappy children. Remember that when he is annoying you with his nonsense.

You, Oftwominds, are the judgmental one here. This is all posted anonymously and the identifying info given narrows the field down to the hundreds of thousands. Part of the function of this board is to discuss the disfunction among TBM's.
Furthermore, I guess I didn't recieve the referendum that everyone must bbq on the 4th and not touch their computers, either.
Get over yourself.

I dunno.

I gotta wonder about never mo-s having nothing better to do ON THE FOURTH OF JULY but seek out ex mormon sites to complain about having or having had mormon colleagues. I also thought for a colleague you had a whole lotta private scoop into this man's life. I suppose you would share he shared all the info with you because the man just is so used to sharing private information. I am so convinced that man shares his homosexual leanings and porn problem with his Bishop NOT. Either event, I wonder about people who take private information that was shared with them and post it to a web site.

Really.

Everybody is a double standard in some way or another. All one has to do is look close enough and it will be found. No I am not taking up for Mormons. What I am saying is that I don't understand this type of thinking and action.

We complain about Mormons crossing boundaries and invading privacy yet I see exmormons posting wedding registry links with real time names and locations here on RFM. Talk about double standards.

Then some never mo decides to spend his fourth of July, instead of being at a picnic or sitting in the back yard with a few friends and family downing a few brewskies (never mo talk for beer) here on RFM talking about the private life of a Mormon colleague and his personal struggles and failures.

you dunno.

How is this private information. All we know is that there's an accountant in California with three kids. Obvioius that Trig Young in San Luis Obisbo. We all know that!

If you can tell me who it is, then it's shared private information. But until then, it's just a phone number on a bathroom stall.

Get over your judgemental self. Nevermo's have a right to this open forum. Don't like it. Don't read it. Turn it off!

Do you have anything at all to say? I don't think you're "oftwominds" at all. You've got one mind and it's geared towards negativity.

quicker than gay porn at work.

that YOU know its him in the picutres and he keeps on watching the porn??? It's worse than you thought. I think he's trying to flirt with you.

He's gone. I discovered that he kept his porn on a thumb drive. The files he viewed were way too big to not take up bandwidth.

I'd rather be fired than out him sexually. Even though I have thought about sending him anonymous links about the BoM and its DNA problems, I decided not to. It would shatter his world. And his family's. But, he's still be a Mormon. I just know this. He's weak minded. Religion for him is a crutch and a social event.

I got back from China and told him that I couldn't drink my coffee with milk in the smaller cites because the Chinese are lactose intolerant like their ancestors, Native Americans. He said, "Ancestors?" He then asked me where I heard that they were related. This tidbit goes directly against the BoM. And he had the most perplexed look on his face.

"I've made up my mind and facts won't get in the way."

Socrates2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that YOU know its him in the picutres and he keeps
> on watching the porn??? It's worse than you
> thought. I think he's trying to flirt with you.

The whole scenario. I see so much of this in Utah and in the mormon church.

It is really sad that I can walk through grocery stores and see a young couple--obviously recently married--and know the guy is gay, go to the dentist's office or the doctor's office--and know the guy is gay and recently married. How many gays are in the closet in mormonism? More than we can possibly know. (I know it goes on outside of mormonism, too, but probably not to the same degree.)

The man is tortured obviously.

I'm always shocked when people can't put 2 and 2 together. I had an old roommate tell me that her sister's BIL was caught soliciting sex at Sugarhouse Park in SLC and he said it was just "an experiment" and the family believed him. If the guy looks at gay porn, he is gay.

I saw obviously gay kids in my church too. But eventually they come out when they get of age. My ex-colleague is so far in the closet he can see Christmas gifts.

Outside of maybe his mother, everyone else knew this one kid my age was gay from maybe middle school age. I mean, c'mon, his nickname at church and school was "Barbie."

My colleague though hasn't displayed any homophobic behavior or tendencies. At least he isn't a hypocrite in this regard. I did ask him though why he didn't challenge his wife when she ridiculed their children's high school for having a pro-gay club. He said he didn't want to touch the topic because his wife has repeatedly thrown up the time she caught him pleasuring himself to gay porn.


cl2zip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole scenario. I see so much of this in Utah
> and in the mormon church.
>
> It is really sad that I can walk through grocery
> stores and see a young couple--obviously recently
> married--and know the guy is gay, go to the
> dentist's office or the doctor's office--and know
> the guy is gay and recently married. How many gays
> are in the closet in mormonism? More than we can
> possibly know. (I know it goes on outside of
> mormonism, too, but probably not to the same
> degree.)
>
> The man is tortured obviously.
>
> I'm always shocked when people can't put 2 and 2
> together. I had an old roommate tell me that her
> sister's BIL was caught soliciting sex at
> Sugarhouse Park in SLC and he said it was just "an
> experiment" and the family believed him. If the
> guy looks at gay porn, he is gay.

cl2zip Wrote:

> I'm always shocked when people can't put 2 and 2
> together. I had an old roommate tell me that her
> sister's BIL was caught soliciting sex at
> Sugarhouse Park in SLC and he said it was just "an
> experiment" and the family believed him. If the
> guy looks at gay porn, he is gay.

When my husband was 14 or so, his TBL parents looked at his computer and found a bunch of gay porn. They confronted him with it and asked him if he was gay. He said no. They believed him.

I still can't quite believe that they were really that naive. (Two years later, he came out and his mom was devastated...)

"The man is tortured obviously."

Well said. The Truth, do consider it a compliment that he found you attractive; it deserves no more merit than if a girl you found hideously unattractive were to show an interest in you.

I'm not sure why everyone's saying you should have "clocked" him. Unless he was groping you or trying to rape you, I don't see the need for "clocking". And even then it should be a last resort. I don't think it would be appropriate to "clock" an obese, buck-toothed female co-worker who had a slightly over-zealous crush on him, I don't see why it would be for a male co-worker.

He is obviously in a very difficult situation, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that when you're in a place like that, you sometimes reach out to people inappropriately (the straight co-worker) because your worldview is pretty distorted. It's likely a mixture of attraction and enviousness. You, being an attractive, well-adjusted straight guy is what he would sell his soul to become.

If his wife is throwing his gay porn in his face, then this is a disaster waiting to happen. She either needs to accept his gay side or get the hell out for the well-being of both of them. Yes, I know it's him with the gay "problem" but being TBM, he'd likely rather commit suicide than willingly leave his marriage to be gay.

They need therapy. Real bad.

At least most of it.

BadGirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least most of it.


Actually, no. Employers' contributions are taken directly from workers' salaries. They're not taking the loss on this that's for sure. If they were paying for unemployment insurance, they'd be putting money into a bottomless pit since most employees aren't ever terminated.

Sorry guys for all the additions.

I just am collecting my thoughts and getting them out for once.

I, oddly, found myself playing the prude from time to time with my mormon co-worker.

He told me that his daughter told his wife that her new husband is "big" and sex was uncomfortable. I'd imagine this to be a common complaint with virgins. I just couldn't believe mormon mothers and daughters talked about this and in such graphic details.

He told me too that his son is uncircumcised. Completely TMI.

He also told me that he was ONLY allowed to perform sexual acts that could lead to his wife becoming pregnant, if you know what I mean. While at the same time, he told me he did acts on her that wouldn't have produced a child. I'm not sure what this is based on as I know Muslims are told to only engage in sexual activities that produce children.

He told me too that his wife spoke to his mother about his declining interest in intercourse. His mother actually followed up to see if there were any issues (besides him being gay of course LOL). I told him I would have been livid and my wife and we would be "battling" if she ever went over me like his wife did with him. He just shrugged it off.

He told me one time he had to stay late that his wife was screaming that he should get home immediately, evidently she think he might be with a guy or something. I told him she'd be picking up her clothes off the curb if she was my wife, especially since she didn't work and thought she could talk to you any way she pleases.

This guy has been totally emasculated by his wife or religion. And the son is going down that path too. Nice kid, but is such a push over. I'm not into sexual stereotypes, but I'd take this kid camping or hunting so he'd man up.

I'm trying to put myself in this guy's shoes and I can imagine why he is so maladaptive and undeveloped in many areas of his life.

I am trying to imagine what it would be like for me a heterosexual guy to feel pressured by almost everyone I know to pretend to be homosexual in outward ways as well as mentally. To try to fall in love, have regular sex, bond deeply emotionally all with a man would be extremely confusing, frustrating, and depressing. I would fail at the role I was expected to fill and my heart would not be in it at all.

I have no idea what you should or could do to help him in his journey to confront his denial of his sexual orientation. I don't know if it is out of your place as a friend/colleague to talk frankly with him about being true to himself would be more healthy for everyone in his family and allow him to mature.

I have no clue, but he's lucky to have an understanding co-worker that just wants to help.

"And the son is going down that path too. Nice kid, but is such a push over. I'm not into sexual stereotypes, but I'd take this kid camping or hunting so he'd man up."

While you are an adult and can decide for yourself, I would strongly advise against trying to get him to "man up". If the kid is gay, he is gay. Camping and hunting are not going to change that. (see the movie "But I'm A Cheerleader" for a humorous, fictional but IMHO accurate depiction of how that would work out.)

If you're going to take him camping/hunting to give him love and support, then by all means. Influence him not to be "masculine" but to be positive and self-accepting, regardless of his orientation. I'm sure he could use a confidante in those matters, since it's likely his dad finds it difficult to counsel him on a matter that he himself is struggling with denial about. (see SWK, BKKKP just about anything they've ever said/written)

But if you take him under your wing for the purpose of butching him up, you'll both have an unpleasant experience. Just my fifty cents.

Yeah, that was a stupid idea about taking his son camping. But he's going down the same path as his father. He's so weak that he allows anyone to walk over him. My ex-colleague was totally bullied by the administration. I was happy to see him go in a way because I didn't like seeing him have to redo financial statements because of the tiniest mistakes. But he redid them, oftentimes staying at work until 10 at night while everyone else was in bed. He was the ideal yes man.

I remember he explained his accounting software to me so that I understood it. It took about 2 hours of explanations and about 30 minutes of questions from me. He explained this to me and wanted nothing in return. If you would have asked me the same thing, and I was the accountant, I would have given you the book and told you to read it.

I got an email from my ex-colleague yesterday. He's taking his son to the mountains with the mormon boy scouts. But his son is doing terribly in summer school. He needs to hit the books, not do that stupid sh!t in boyscouts. I emailed this to him in polite terms and reminded him that his son will need scholarship money for college. We'll see which one he chooses, boy scouts (useless) or studying.

drewmeister Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "And the son is going down that path too. Nice
> kid, but is such a push over. I'm not into sexual
> stereotypes, but I'd take this kid camping or
> hunting so he'd man up."
>
> While you are an adult and can decide for
> yourself, I would strongly advise against trying
> to get him to "man up". If the kid is gay, he is
> gay. Camping and hunting are not going to change
> that. (see the movie "But I'm A Cheerleader" for a
> humorous, fictional but IMHO accurate depiction of
> how that would work out.)
>
> If you're going to take him camping/hunting to
> give him love and support, then by all means.
> Influence him not to be "masculine" but to be
> positive and self-accepting, regardless of his
> orientation. I'm sure he could use a confidante in
> those matters, since it's likely his dad finds it
> difficult to counsel him on a matter that he
> himself is struggling with denial about. (see SWK,
> BKKKP just about anything they've ever
> said/written)
>
> But if you take him under your wing for the
> purpose of butching him up, you'll both have an
> unpleasant experience. Just my fifty cents.