We can all point to instances where so-called prophets have said things that we can now see are clearly wrong. I think most believing members of the church can say the same—-- whether they disagree with polygamy (and many do), disapprove of early church views on race, or doubt that Quakers really inhabit the moon and sun.

What this seems to show is that even among believers, prophetic authority is not taken as definitive—--the debate is far from over when the prophet speaks. A prophet’s authority is not the rule by which beliefs are measured—even among LDS faithful, and this seems to be the case whether those beliefs are of ethical, scientific, religious, or political import.

So what’s the point of a prophet in the first place? If we’re actually using reason to determine our beliefs in all falsifiable matters, and we have good reasons for believing that so-called prophets are clearly fallible (like all of us), why bother at all trusting the words of church leaders on matters that are unfalsifiable?

I can't remember what the LDS line on this is. Anyone else?

LDS Profit: bring yr expertise as a Lawyer, accountant, or stock brkr to use in corporate matters; make investment decisions, etc. choose other Lawyers who will protect ChurchCo from pesky lawsuits; Cajole UT, Id, & AZ gov't leaders.

It's been a while but from what I remember The reason for a profit was to be a mouth piece of god. If this is the "true" church restored from biblical times, and they had profits back then,...then there must be profits now to speak with god and inform his people, yadda yadda yadda, puke.

But when they doubt stuff the profit says they say "he was speaking as a man, not the profit...." And you're right, logically they can't have it both ways,...but logic has nothing to do with MORmONism. If it was approached logically it would be all or nothing. You believe everything that comes out of his mouth, or nothing.

I guess you could say the LDS line would be "we are not going to think about it very much and go on singing "follow the profit" and bearing are testies that we do".

On a different note, will your band be performing at the Highlands Festival "Celtic Weekend"?

I'm not sure why my main gigs don't play that festival-- it would make a lot of sense and we play just about everything else. We've played in lineups with nearly every band that's booked this year-- maybe that's why? I've played it several times in the past, but not with the bands I'm with currently.

I will be playing Bristol R&R again with both of my regular bands and those shows should be great.

I might come out to see Solas-- I love those guys.

I will be out of town saturday, but the wife and I will be at Scythian on friday night.

I attend R & R every year. Remind me what your bands names are and I will check them out!

Having a person called the prophet lends credibility to the notion that the church is led by God. Having a physical tangible object like the Book of Mormon lends credibility to Joseph Smith.

Todays prophet is like the Book of Mormon. Both are used as a sign to bolster the claim that the church is unique and divinely inspired. Both are not in harmony with the church, as the modern church does not follow the teachings of the book while the prophets do not support each other or the early church.

Meanwhile, no matter what the prophet says, the members are to obey his word, and to forget his word if it contradicts or embarrasses his successor. He gives no revelation, he adds nothing to the D&C and his words are dissembled by the apologists to appease insiders and outsiders alike.

Todays prophet does not prophecy, nor does he speak except to give reminders of duty, but as long as he is sitting in the prophet chair the members will sacrifice everything.

Thus, the prophet is used to turn a profit.

Yeah like with the Mark Hofmann case. They thought the salamander letter was authentic. Well they should have known better right?!

Yeah, this is usually the line my TBM in laws feed me about why the church is so great....we have a living prophet...

But, I agree with everyone here....what's the last meaningful revelation that any of these guys have had....it was the insight and thoughtfulness they had to allow african americans to be given the priesthood in 1978...and that was 15 years after the nice people of Alabama decided to give equality to African Americans (http://faculty.smu.edu/dsimon/change-civ%20rtsb.html).

...is that the rank and file don't care if the profit spouts total bullsh*t. The official line is that if the profit tells you to do something you do it. Period. If if it's the wrong thing to do you will be blessed for your obedience and if you don't do it you will be punished for disobedience.

On my mission we made a big deal about our profit not being infallible. This was in Portugal - heavily Catholic so comparisons to the Pope were common. "No, the profit isn't infallible, sometimes he is only speaking as a man....."

Now compare the two positions and tell me, what's the practical difference? "The profit can and probably will make mistakes but we are going to do everything and anything he demands anyway." WTF?

During Gordon B. Hinckley's entire stint as "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" I don't ever recall him claim to be speaking prophetically.

They only say stuff in plausible deniability mode. Bednar and others pounce on the earring thing as "the PROPHET has said..." of course in a few years some anti-Mormon will throw Hinckley's quote at a Mormon who will say "he was obviously just speaking as a man."

They CLAIM to be prophets but they don't claim to prophesy. Unless something works out that way then someone will say "years ago president so-and-so said thus-and-so, and now look how his prophecy has been fulfilled.

Note that apologists will not consider any failed prophecy of Joseph Smith to be a real prophecy unless Joseph Smith said "I prophesy in the name of Jesus Christ" and gave a specific date when it would happen. But anything Joseph Smith ever said that, somehow later could be interpreted as being fulfilled is suddenly a startling "prophecy."

There's two things I like about Mormons--their face.

They can attract females and scare off intruders. They make the birds look bigger.

The troops will gripe about their officers, talk about how the brass are wrongheaded and all that, but, in they end, they obey. That's particularly true in a volunteer military, where you end up with a pool of self-selected followers of authority.

"Prophetic authority" is just commander-in-chief level LDS priesthood administrative power. The "prophetic" part is there to justify the claimed authority and to suppress dissent. I mean, how dare I question some old fart in a suit when the baloney he delivers supposedly comes directly from the Great and Powerful Oz himself?