I am a major lurker, occasional poster here. DH and I let the extended family know about our change in philosophy a few years ago and made sure to let his parents know that it was a private matter and we did not feel the need to discuss it with them. We told them in a letter as they are terrible to communicate with in person. They are very TBM and it is like talking to a brick wall.

Anyways, we received a few follow-up letters and just read them without responding. We had set our boundaries and we were sticking to them. Two weeks ago, they show up to our house unannounced and hand us a letter and then leave. We decided to not respond as usual. A couple of days ago, I found out from my mom that my mother-in-law asked her and my aunt to go to lunch. She wanted to find out what they knew about us leaving since we are not willing to talk to her. They all went to lunch because my mom is a really nice person who is full of empathy. She told my mother-in-law to just love us unconditionally and stop trying to change us. When my mom told me about the lunch, I was LIVID!

To me, this is the ultimate crossing of boundaries and I am not willing to stand for it. We told her it was private and she went behind our backs to see what other people knew. DH and I are planning to talk to them in person next week. I am not looking forward to it AT ALL. Here is the letter they handed us. It has not phased me, just makes me sad for them and their brainwashing. They belong to a religion that has convinced them that we will not be with them or each other in eternity unless we repent.

"Dear Jolene and DH,

We would be in error to completely ignore the many feelings we have had over the past couple of years as we have continually prayed that we might find the correct words to say as encouragement for you to remember the feelings you once had about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Tonight we feel it important to express our love for you and let you know that we have not forgotten that our desire for an eternal family includes both of you. In order for you to be a part of that eternal family you will need to rekindle that which you know. To miss your opportunity to be with us in our eternal family is sad to contemplate.

We have honored your request to not "missionary you" but feel that you might also honor our request to allow us to give you and invitation of encouragement to recall those feelings. So we are not going to "missionary you", but we are going to tell you how it is.

Yes, the twists and turns of life sometimes seem to take us on roads we never expected but it should never be forgotten that the Lord is ever in charge and He knows us better than we realize. To allow ourselves moments of doubt, is counterproductive to the Lord's eternal plan.

We hope that you will take time to ponder those inner feelings you once had. We recall a talk you gave in sacrament meeting once DH which said that, "once you have lost the spirit it is very challenging to get it back or losing the spirit brings many challenges." (words to that effect anyway).

Today our Sunday school lesson was very important. We want to share it with you. It was about the Atonement that was brought about through Jesus Christ. Yes you know the subject well. It applies to us, and both of you, if we are to live as the eternal family we hope for and want you to be a part of. The message is clear and comes from Doctrine & Covenants 19:15-18.

"Therefore I command you to repent - repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your suffering be sore - how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because f pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit - and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink."

Therefore the choice to discount what the savior has done for you is not a good one. We continually pray that you will remember what once you knew. To discount it cuts away at your salvation.

Now it would not be fair to think we have just pushed you away. We have honored your request for silence, as it were, but our love for you will not allow us to never remind you of what your hearts have known as truth.

Happiness in this world is not enough to satisfy. Eternal happiness is what all will one day want and that comes through the Atonement and keeping commandments.

Whatever has caused you the choices you've made these past 2 or more years will not satisfy in the eternities. So our request is for more open communication as you promised and a response to our plea to have you with us not only in this life but also in the eternities.

That said, it is always your choice. Do we love you less - NO. We only feel sorry for what you will face. Do we want you around - YES. Will you be happy in the eternities without spouse or family - NO. Come again and be part of Heavenly Father's plan with us for our entire family.

Love, Mom and Dad"

Shut up.

All my love,

Jolene

best response ever....

Dear folks,

Please see current trial of Warren Jeffs and his threats...I mean, umm..."god's threats"...to the jurors for a nice little window into the not so distant past of real mormonism.

All for now,

jolene

You left off "the fuck" out of that response. Other than that - spot on.

I've had a couple of those letters myself. I really hate that they keep pushing that I "know" it's true and just choose not to follow it for some reason or another.
Fortunately in my case, my mother, who was the pushy one, has backed off over the years. It flares up every now and then but over all she has learned to respect my decisions. Often I realize I'm not respecting hers because I want to bring up all the things that are wrong with the church. It's a two way street, and if they are serious about wanting you around, it's possible to build mutual respect. It takes a lot of time and patience and acceptance on both sides.

What drives me crazy, reading this, is that they don't KNOW. They just REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY WANT IT. That's not the same thing as knowing, never has been and never will be.

The condescension is so thick in that letter I had a hard time breathing while reading it.

I don't have any advice, but I do have sympathy. Good luck dealing with that bundle of dysfunction.

Stunted

I'm with Stunted. That was painful to read. How insulting. I would be super livid if I were in your shoes.

Dear Mom and Dad,

Whatever your requests may be regarding the Mormon cult - the answer is NO.

Further efforts are futile - the answer will always be NO.

We are DONE with Mormonism.

Love, Jolene

+11111111

Dear Mom & Dad,

It's obvious from your letter that your motivation is rooted in selfishness. I'm so sorry that we've decreased your future power & dominion by excluding ourselves from your multi-level god marketing campaign.

We have no desire to take part in an eternal ponzi scheme that moves elohim up the celestial ladder of glory, whether it is true or not.

Further, I'm surprised that after 2 years of praying for guidance on how to bring us back into your eternal family, the best the holy spirit could come up with is to appeal to abstract feelings I had a long time ago that only served to reinforce the doctrines you had brainwashed into me since childbirth.

When I was a child, I prayed as a child, I bore my testimony as a child, I served a mission as a child. But when I grew up, I took responsibility for my actions, weighed the evidence, reviewed church history, and did the only thing an honest individual of integrity could do: I resigned my membership.

Your second appeal to the atonement is also extremely suprising. I am an adult. I gladly accept the consequences of my actions. I do not expect nor wish for anyone else to pay a price that I owe. I pay it gladly.

If you are ever in a position that allows you to set aside wishful thinking and abstract feelings to honestly investigate the facts about the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints we would be more than happy to assist. Otherwise, please respect our wishes and keep your superstitions to yourselves.

Love,

DH & Jolene

I like this one. I also would add a note, since they specifically mention it, that it's clear that although they noticed our demand that they not play missionary, this letter was exactly the condescending, missionary behavior we asked they avoid.

Dear Mom and Dad,

Please stop telling me to stop reembering the feelings I had about the gospel years ago. I was working with what I knew then. I found out it wasn't what I thought it was.
Love,
Jolene and DH

For me, the temptation to point out all the circular assumptions and false premises upon which their arguments are made would be too great. But, sometimes to my detriment, I'm a sucker for a good debate.

And as for that D&C quote, ". . . repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth . . ." what, his tongue? This letter is dying for a lampooning rewrite. Repent, or lest I smite you with the rod of my loins, yea, even the loins of God!

It's ridiculous. ". . . you will need to rekindle that which you know." Present tense. Well, I'm guessing you know that Smith was a liar and the BoM, et. al are a hoax. You could remind her of what you "know." Or again, just don't respond. That's probably your best bet.

It pained me to type the letter with all of the grammatical errors, but it is what it is. Thanks for all of the support - my logical mind wants to rip them to shreds, but the human in me feels sorry for them. The best way to deal with them is to continue to be happy and live the best lives we can. I think they have seen that in us over the past 2 years and they want to make sure that we know this happiness is temporary. More than anything, I feel sorry that they have been duped.

Sorry you are so frightened the your deity will make you miserable in the afterlife for our choices. However, it is YOUR choice to try and appease this being, not ours. I am deeply unhappy that you deliberately ignored our expectation that we not be proseltyzed -- you even mentioned that in your letter. We certainly do not miss these sorts of personal boundary violations. We continue to desire you to keep your faith away from us, although we still love you both. I expect that this will be the last time you violate our boundaries so egregiously.

Sincerely,

Keep repeating the above as many times as necessary.

I really hate how Mormons have kidnapped Jesus Christ and think turning against the Mormon Church Incorporated is the same as turning against Jesus. This is simply NOT true, especially when you see how Mormon turn against him almost daily through their choices to judge others, live a legalistic, Pharasee type religion, choosing to be filled with pride and look down on those who don't agree with him as unworthy.

Good luck trying to talk to these people. I've always found that people who won't listen are often tripped up by questions. Questions instead of statements about your beliefs, because they are just waiting to combat your statements. Questioning them to defend their beliefs will not be what they are expecting, especially if you are sweet and kind while doing it. They expect you to be on the defensive, feel guilty etc. You need to remind yourself that you are right and that you feel sorry for THEM for being so messed up. That will help you take the right tone and attitude with them. Of course, that's all just IMO. Whatever you decide, good luck.

Sometimes the best response is no response. If I were in your postion, I would send the letter back and not say anything about it. Your MIL obviously believes she has the right to ignore your requests and boundries. Any further letters, hand or mail them back with a, "No, thanks. We've had enough of your letters."

Although, I do think Raptor's is pretty funny. Short and simple!

...with coffee grounds included in the envelope.

If you have a kid that's old enough to color and decorate on paper, have him/her decorate a paper cross.

Mormons are kind of like vampires with crosses, except Mormons generally like garlic. But a cross and coffee will get the same job done.

You should stay as far out of this as possible. Next they will start blaming you for leading him astray. He needs to stand up to them by himself. They won't listen to you in any case. You aren't really one of them, and you're a woman to boot.

I'm not suggesting you should be a shrinking violet in any other area, but spouses really need to deal with their own parents and siblings.

You can coach him and support him in any way, but if you go into this thinking they will listen to you as his wife, you are going to simply feel worse when it is over.

That's exactly why I wrote my suggested response from the DH's perspective. They need to hear it from him.

then they can knock themselves out trying to compose more and
more manipulative letters while you say:

"thankyou but it hasn't worked yet, you'll have to try still harder"...could be fun

Kolobian's reply letter is awesome :)

Regarding not wanting anyone else to have to pay one's own debts, I'd segue into the barbarian practice of human sacrifice and elevating such a practice to the level of holiness and love by having it practiced by "God & Son" is quite revolting and immoral.

God wants to buy your soul just as much as the devil does - (I'm an atheist, so this is especially true in my belief framework).

Holy shit. I wouldn't even know what to say. Wait, yes I would. However, what I would WANT to say might have consequences I was unprepared to deal with. Because if I got to write a response letter back to that arrogant bullshit for you, they would never speak to you again. Trust me. I don't put up with that kind of passive-aggressive bullying. That's the kind of crap I used to do in Junior High. Really.

I agree with those who say to let your husband deal with it. It's his parents, don't throw yourself to the wolves and let them think it's all your doing and that their poor son is just following his wife's orders.

Hello Mudder, Hello Fodder
This is from your son and daughter
Why you no shut up,
You know you odder.

...and that's to show them that there is no redemption for you:

Dear Mom & Dad,

My new name is XXXXX. Jolene's new name is YYYYY.

The First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood is given by clasping the right hands and placing the joint of the thumb directly over the first knuckle of the hand. The name of this token is the New Name. The sign is made by bringing the right arm to the square, the palm of the hand to the front, the fingers close together, and the thumb extended. We have now revealed the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, and sign.

The Second Token is given by clasping the right hands and placing the joint of the thumb between the first and second knuckles of the hand. The name of this token is your own first given name. The sign is made by bringing the right hand in front of you, with the hand in cupping shape, the right arm forming a square, and the left arm being raised to the square. We have now revealed the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, and sign.

The First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, or sign of the Nail is received by bringing the right hand into this position: the hand vertical, the fingers close together, and the thumb extended; and the person giving the token placing the tip of the forefinger of his right hand in the center of the palm, and the thumb opposite on the back of the hand of the one receiving it. The name of this token is "the Son", meaning the Son of God. The sign is made by bringing the left hand in front of you with the hand in cupping shape, the left arm forming a square; the right hand is also brought forward, the palm down, the fingers close together, with the thumb extended. We have now revealed the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, or sign of the nail, with its accompanying name, and sign.

The Second Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers, and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. The name of this token is: "health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and in the sinews. Power in the priesthood be upon me and upon my posterity through all generations of time and throughout all eternity." The sign is made by raising both hands high above the head and while lowering the hands repeating aloud the words: "Oh god, hear the words of my mouth. Oh god, hear the words of my mouth. Oh god, hear the words of my mouth." We have now revealed the Second Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Patriarchal Grip, or sure sign of the nail, with its accompanying name, and sign.

So please don't worry about us. Even if we don't go to church or pay tithing, we know exactly how to get into the celestial kingdom just in case it actually does exist.

Love,

DH & Jolene



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2011 06:21PM by kolobian.

I had a JW gf for a few years... and we received a VERY similar letter from her JW parents. In this case, it was from the JW/Watchtower perspective about how she was turning away from Jehovah. (She and I were living together at the time.... which meant her parents were now obligated to officially shun us.)

I responded with something like... "hey, they're our lives, and we get to chose how to live them. It's unfortunate that your religion tells you that your happiness is dependent on the choices of others."

They eventually softened their stance, and allowed visits each way, but (of course) not in the presence of other witnesses.

OMG!! ROFMLAO. But seriously, you guys just have the cutest little thoughts!

They say they aren't missionarying them. I don't know how else to say that. Yet the letter is still trying to get them to go back to being mormon.

They're not missionarying them. They're expressing their sadness and extreme desire to re-recruit them back into the church. Oh wait...

They're main concern seems to be that the both of you will not longer be a part of their eternal family. With that in mind, this is how I'd respond:

Dear Mom and Dad,
You seem very distressed that according to Morman belief, we will no longer be a part of your eternal family. What you need to understand is that the belief that we will be reunited with our loved ones in the afterlife is a fundamental tenent of Christianity. All Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. believe in this. From the point of view of other Christians, Mormonism "sold" you something that was already yours. Many non-Christians believe in this as well. The ancient Romans believed it, and the ancient Scandinavians believed it. It is a belief that is probably as old as humanity. You do NOT need to be Mormon to believe that you will one day be reunited with your loved ones.

You said that your letter was not an attempt to be missionaries to us, but that's exactly what it was. While we respect your right to believe, you apparently do not respect our right NOT to believe. Because it's a simple as that -- we no longer believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This was not a decision that was entered into lightly, nor do we care to debate WHY we don't believe, because we are well past the point of debate. We are not returning, and will never return to the church. We are sorry that this distresses you, but that's how it's going to be. We are going to ask that you live your own eleventh article of faith.

We love you dearly and will always be happy to see you. We would be happy to discuss family, fishing, football, sewing, gardening, vacations, world news, or whatever else interests you. You can even tell us about your church parties and callings. What is NOT up for discussion is why we will never return to the church. What is NOT acceptable is any effort on your part to shove your beliefs down our throats. Learn how to live with that, or your disrespect for our religious views may irreparably harm our relationship with you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2011 07:04PM by summer.

Spelling quibble: Fundamental tenet, not tenant. :D

Good catch. :-)

I sent this response to my FIL (he did not even read it...I think). He did not answer the questions (surprise, surprise) but he did agree never to bring up the issue again.

Dear FIL and MIL, I fully understand that you are very confident about Heavenly Father’s will for you and even what His will is for us. I appreciate and respect that; but we are not as certain as you. Your letter indicated your sincere belief that God's wrath will come upon us in some way if we do not repent and admit that the Mormon Church is the only source of God's truth. I know where you are coming from and why you would say that (because you love us); but relying on anyone’s spirituality but our own seems impossible to us. Frankly, we are simply unconvinced of the LDS church's exclusive claims to God's truth or desires.

I think the following set of questions show the difficulty we have come to in simply returning to the faith that we are comfortable with. I ask you to carefully read through them and to deliver a thoughtful response if you have one. They really do represent the problem we face in trusting in anyone else’s experience.


Q: If someone is born Jehovah’s Witness or Muslim and is told all their lives that they have all the truth by everyone they admire (including their parents), does God still expect them to search for more or different truth (ie: find and accept Mormonism)?

Q: If someone is born Jehovah’s Witness or Muslim and experiences deeply meaningful spiritual manifestations (feelings) that their church is true, does God still expect them to search for more or different truth (ie: find and accept Mormonism)?

Q: If a Muslim or Jehovah’s Witness is expected to search for truth outside of the faith that a) they were born into, b) they have been told is true by people they trust and c) they have received spiritual manifestations regarding the truthfulness thereof; does this also apply to those born into Mormonism?

Q: If the combination of a) being born into it, b) having strong confirming feelings, and c) being told your church is true by those you trust are not reliable/sufficient indicators of holistic truth for non-Mormons; how and why can they possibly be sufficient for Mormons? In other words, how can Mormons be the only religion in the world that is immune to the effects of confirmation bias? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Q: If the combination of a) being born into it, b) having strong confirming feelings, and c) being told your church is true by those you trust are not reliable/sufficient indicators of holistic truth for non-Mormons; what other tools should they use to find truth?

Q: If Mormons are exempt from having to search outside of their faith for Truth, are any other religions also exempt (why or why not)?

Q: How does someone know whether or not they already belong to a religion exempt from having to search for remaining truth (ie: already has all the truth)?

As you can see from the questions above, we quite simply no longer believe that it is realistic to assume that the Mormon church is true simply because we were born into it or because you bear testimony of it or because we have had good feelings about it. Clearly, these things are something that members of every single religion in the world experience. We are simply at a loss as to why Mormons think that there testimonies and experiences are somehow more "real" or "true" than those of other religions.

As you may understand from the questions above; we are currently in a position where being told that someone we love and trust knows something is true is not nearly as helpful as being told how they determined that it is true or why they believe it so strongly, or even why it is so valuable to them. Empathy is a critical characteristic that we need in our spiritual leaders. We certainly don’t want you to ever go through what we went through in losing our ability to believe but we do ask that you try to empathize with what that must feel like for us and how great of a loss it has been.

Dear Mom and Dad,

We used to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny too.

Love,

Us

I would do with all of their future letters what I do with junk mail, toss it in the trash unopened. Just pretend you started with this letter.