Have any of you run into an Ba'hai adherents? I ran into a bunch on my mission ('70's) and have bumped into them on a recurring basis ever since. They're like hippies that love everything. Joseph Smith was a prophet... yep that's fine with them.. Muhammed.. fine...Billy Graham...fine.

I love those guys!! Makes you wanna think if you told a Ba'hai dude you wanted to roll in the hay with his wife, he'd say "Fine, get after it!".

just sayin'...

Ron

They have a lot of high holy days they have to take off work...
Or at least that's what he claims.

In my TBM wife's family the males are white trash and the females become fanatics of weird religions. However, SIL seems to be pretty live and let live unlike TBM wife.

My SIL actually works for them and I visited her at work once. I don't know what they believe, I didn't ask what they believe, and I don't care what they believe. This is just a manifestation of my beliefs as a fanatical adherent of apatheism. I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

I went to a Ba'hai/Protestant wedding about 15 years ago. Believe you me, it was quite the affair. To make things more interesting, the reception was the first time I ever tried Ethiopian food (YUMMY!).

I've also been to the Ba'hai center in northern Israel, though it's been almost 30 years since I went there.

I've been a steady lurker here for some time
I'm an adherent. It can be spelled both Ba'hai and Baha'i.
And yes there are many days taken off in a year they can be found at this link:
http://www.bahai.us/welcome/principles-and-practices/bahai-calendar/

I have a Ba'hai friend; her parents are from Iran (which is where the faith originated, I believe). Actually, strict Ba'hais believe in chastity, etc., so I doubt the guy Ron knows would be okay with sharing his wife. ;-)

Interestingly, despite accepting Mohammed as one of many prophets, Ba'hais are severely persecuted in Iran and in many other majority-Muslim countries. They are considered beyond the pale in an Islamic context because they also accept prophets who came after Mo'. There are terrible cases in recent history of even Ba'hai women being tortured and executed for their religion in Iran. My friend's family had almost all of their property seized after the Islamic Revolution in Iran simply because they were Ba'hai. It's especially sad because the Ba'hai faith tends to (genuinely) be one of peace and to teach tolerance.

Yes Baha'is have been persecuted for their beliefs in Iran since its founding in 1844.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 08:47PM by Susan I/S.

Hey Ron, always enjoy what you say and your comments.
There are just a few things

Ol Jo is not considered a prophet in the baha'i faith.

Here in a book written by the Guardian Shoghi Effendi (as authoritative as first presidency).

1727. Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon

"Regarding your question concerning Joseph Smith and the 'Book of Mormon':

Page 512

as the Bahá'í Teachings quite clearly outline the succession of Prophets from the days of Christ as being Muhammad, the Báb, and finally Bahá'u'lláh, it is obvious that Joseph Smith is not a Manifestation of God.

"The Bahá'ís should deal with the members of all religious sects, however, with the greatest tolerance and friendliness, and try to point out to them the significance of the Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh to the world in this great Day. The Guardian would advise you to teach the Mormons like everyone else, the Faith, when you find them receptive. They have many good principles, and their teachings regarding chastity, not drinking or smoking, etc., are quite similar to ours, and should form a point of common interest."

IMHO since science trumps the BoM, Joseph Smith and the Bom are certifiably false.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 08:48PM by Susan I/S.

They are homophobic just like the rest.

The Bahai's are a cultic group in many ways like the LDS, though not as bad perhaps.

The believe that their prophet, Bahaullah, is the FINAL prophet for our era and that he supersedes all others. That is one reason they are persecuted in some Muslim countries, unfairly of course since they have a right to believe that if they want.

Their tolerance of other faiths is a good tenet of their religion, but it is somewhat qualified and a little disingenuous, since they believe that ultimately all of mankind will be converted to the Bahai faith. They play the tolerance card since they are a minority religion and have to get along with others in the meantime. They are not universalists or freethinkers in that sense.

Their religion is not as hierarchical as the LDS church, but it still has its means of enforcing group conformity. You can only differ so much from the party line before your membership is called into question. In fact, there are several breakaway factions that follow different leaders apart from the mainline of the Bahai's and they are generally referred to (not very kindly!) as "covenant breakers."

A useful site: http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html

The dynamic of life in the Baha’i community and particularly the central role of administration are often hidden from prospective converts. Non-Baha’is are not allowed at any administrative event, including the main worship service, the Nineteen Day Feast, since this includes time set aside for the discussion of community business. Those who defend the status quo within the Faith expect that once persons have faith in Baha’u’llah, they will quite naturally become “deepened” (i.e., more knowledgeable) in the religion and accept the authority claims of the administration. In a talk on scholarship, Baha’i notable John Hatcher referred to a resignation letter of a prominent Baha’i academic, who renounced belief in Baha’u’llah based on institutional action against Baha‘i intellectuals.

Since the administration derives its authority primarily from the Will and Testament of ‘Abdu’l-Baha, acceptance of UHJ (Universal House of Justice, the governing body of the faith) infallibility is expected to automatically follow belief in his authority. As a practical matter this means that once converts are emotionally attached to the Faith by belief in Baha’u’llah, they can be led to accept less palatable aspects of Baha’i life. Or, if they can’t, they are free to leave. However, there is little awareness of or sympathy for the experience of the convert who believes he has found the enlightened religion he is looking for, only to find one aspect or another intolerable.

Some of these disillusioning aspects are simple and straightforward. For example, some converts do not discover until after they are members that women are excluded from service on the UHJ, in spite of the religion’s clear teaching on the equality of the sexes. This ruling is based upon interpretations made by Shoghi Effendi, and so it is deemed impossible to change. However, since this particular policy does not touch the average Baha’i’s life directly, it is usually accepted without much complaint.

A more important factor, however, is the central place administration holds in Baha’i life. It is not considered a mere church, or a convenient arrangement for governing the religion, but an evolving world theocracy that is the ultimate salvation of mankind. The position that Baha’u’llah meant to create a theocratic world state has been questioned by prominent Baha’i scholars, who insist that the founder of the Baha’i Faith supported the separation of church and state, an idea that has been condemned by the House of Justice.

The Baha’i Faith’s public position is that it does no proselytizing, but active efforts at bringing in converts are essential to fulfill the theocratic mission. Some Baha’is feel, quite literally, that the problems of the world are on their shoulders, and can only be eliminated by spreading the religion and its institutions. The convert will find himself pressured to participate in “teaching” and discovers that the word “proselytize” has been redefined to mean either conversion by force or door-to-door recruiting. There are, in fact, constant appeals for Baha’is to teach the Faith, and it is considered to be the primary job of spiritual assemblies to create plans for teaching, so a good deal of time and energy is spent on them.

Ironically, though, there are limits to the kinds of individual teaching projects that the Baha’i leadership will tolerate. For example, a Baha’i of my acquaintance put a lot of time and effort into a regional teaching project only to be told “We can’t give you a blank check,” i.e., the project was scrapped because it was not under institutional control. A Baha’i in Albuquerque was ordered to cancel her successful television show promoting the Baha‘i Faith, and was told that her teaching “would have no effect” because she was “not in unity with the assembly”; in other words, she was perceived as being a trouble-maker and too independent.

Belief in the founder of the Baha’i Faith is held to be inseparable from faith in and obedience to a divinely-ordained administrative system.

Key to the understanding of this is the doctrine of the Covenant: In order to prevent his religion from falling into schism after his death, Baha’u’llah appointed his eldest surviving son, ‘Abdu’l-Baha, as the leader of the Faith (1892-1921) and authorized interpreter of his writings. This scriptural provision is considered to be a covenant between Baha’u’llah and his followers, who were expected to turn to this appointed center. A younger son disputed ‘Abdu‘l-Baha‘s claim to leadership, causing a family rift which threatened to tear the new faith apart. ‘Abdu’l-Baha excommunicated these family members, called their followers “covenant-breakers,” and ordered that they be shunned. The term “covenant-breaker” has been applied to any opponent of the successive heads of the Baha’i Faith, and the strategy has actually been quite successful at marginalizing and discouraging schismatics and dissidents.

In a quite recent phenomenon, alienated Baha’is have found a sense of community on the Internet, which allows them to maintain private belief while either resigning membership or remaining inactive within the Baha’i organization. The Universal House of Justice, in response to this, has called the position of leaving the organization while still claiming to be a believer in Baha’u’llah “self-contradictory,” and it does not recognize such people as Baha’is.

Abdu’l-Baha painted a vivid and fearful picture of the opponents he faced: Covenant-breakers are regarded as spiritually sick and perverse; knowing that they are in error yet persisting out of pride and a quest for power. They are tricky and smooth-talking, and can easily lure the unsuspecting into spiritual darkness. The only way to be spiritually safe is to be “firm in the Covenant,” that is, to obey the central authority and to shun those who have “broken the Covenant.”

http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html

From the beginning i'll point out that forum members are encouraged to check all information. Everything about the Baha'i Faith and the early lives of its founders is available on the internet.

Xmo:
> The dynamic of life in the Baha’i community and
> particularly the central role of administration
> are often hidden from prospective converts.
> Non-Baha’is are not allowed at any
> administrative event, including the main worship
> service, the Nineteen Day Feast, since this
> includes time set aside for the discussion of
> community business. Those who defend the status
> quo within the Faith expect that once persons have
> faith in Baha’u’llah, they will quite
> naturally become “deepened” (i.e., more
> knowledgeable) in the religion and accept the
> authority claims of the administration. In a talk
> on scholarship, Baha’i notable John Hatcher
> referred to a resignation letter of a prominent
> Baha’i academic, who renounced belief in
> Baha’u’llah based on institutional action
> against Baha‘i intellectuals.

response:
Baha'i Feast meetings take place once every 19 days in every community around the globe. They are neither secret nor sacred, members can talk about the events. Non-members are welcome to come to these mostly administrative get-togethers but dont usually. Authority rests squarely on the shoulders of elected committees. Local Assemblies, respond to their national assemblies, and the national assemblies responds to an international assembly(in other words no penisholders). Members who leave (resigning is as easy as one phone call) are not harassed afterwards or pressured into returning.

Xmo:
>Since the administration derives its authority
> primarily from the Will and Testament of
> ‘Abdu’l-Baha, acceptance of UHJ (Universal
> House of Justice, the governing body of the faith)
> infallibility is expected to automatically follow
> belief in his authority.

response:
Authority in the Baha'i Faith is by a 1921 document letter written by the son of the founder(hence no Brigham looks like Joseph shenanigans).There is no more "his authority" than "than her" authority. Its more like 'their" authority as only committees does the community follow.


As a practical matter
> this means that once converts are emotionally
> attached to the Faith by belief in
> Baha’u’llah, they can be led to accept less
> palatable aspects of Baha’i life.

examples?

Or, if they
> can’t, they are free to leave. However, there is
> little awareness of or sympathy for the experience
> of the convert who believes he has found the
> enlightened religion he is looking for, only to
> find one aspect or another intolerable.
> some of these disillusioning aspects are simple
> and straightforward. For example, some converts do
> not discover until after they are members that
> women are excluded from service on the UHJ, in
> spite of the religion’s clear teaching on the
> equality of the sexes. This ruling is based upon
> interpretations made by Shoghi Effendi, and so it
> is deemed impossible to change. However, since
> this particular policy does not touch the average
> Baha’i’s life directly, it is usually accepted
> without much complaint.

The most ardent supporters of the Faith that ive known are women. Women members are on more committees and assemblys than men. There are more woman bahais than men.

Xmo:
> A more important factor, however, is the central
> place administration holds in Baha’i life. It is
> not considered a mere church, or a convenient
> arrangement for governing the religion, but an
> evolving world theocracy that is the ultimate
> salvation of mankind. The position that
> Baha’u’llah meant to create a theocratic world
> state has been questioned by prominent Baha’i
> scholars, who insist that the founder of the
> Baha’i Faith supported the separation of church
> and state, an idea that has been condemned by the
> House of Justice.

response:
As authoritative as it gets kinda longish:
From Shoghi Effendi:
The Administrative Order which this historic Document has established, it should be noted, is, by virtue of its origin and character, unique in the annals of the world's religious systems. No Prophet before Bahá'u'lláh, it can be confidently asserted, not even Muhammad Whose Book clearly lays down the laws and ordinances of the Islamic Dispensation, has established, authoritatively and in writing, anything comparable to the Administrative Order which the authorized Interpreter of Bahá'u'lláh's teachings has instituted, an Order which, by virtue of the administrative principles which its Author has formulated, the institutions He has established, and the right of interpretation with which He has invested its Guardian, must and will, in a manner unparalleled in any previous religion, safeguard from schism the Faith from which it has sprung. Nor is the principle governing its operation similar to that which underlies any system, whether theocratic or otherwise, which the minds of men have devised for the government of human institutions. Neither in theory nor in practice can the Administrative Order of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh be said to conform to any type of democratic government, to any system of autocracy, to any purely aristocratic order, or to any of the various theocracies, whether Jewish, Christian or Islamic which mankind has witnessed in the past. It incorporates within its structure certain elements which are to be found in each of the three recognized forms of secular government, is devoid of the defects which each of them inherently possesses, and blends the salutary truths which each undoubtedly contains without vitiating in any way the integrity of the Divine verities on which it is essentially founded.

Xmo:
> The Baha’i Faith’s public position is that it
> does no proselytizing, but active efforts at
> bringing in converts are essential to fulfill the
> theocratic mission. Some Baha’is feel, quite
> literally, that the problems of the world are on
> their shoulders, and can only be eliminated by
> spreading the religion and its institutions. The
> convert will find himself pressured to participate
> in “teaching” and discovers that the word
> “proselytize” has been redefined to mean
> either conversion by force or door-to-door
> recruiting. There are, in fact, constant appeals
> for Baha’is to teach the Faith, and it is
> considered to be the primary job of spiritual
> assemblies to create plans for teaching, so a good
> deal of time and energy is spent on them.

Members by instruction from their founder do not proselytize or pressure someone to become a member.
Members in their own communities are invited to teaching activities which less commonly involve door knocking unless one is more familiar with the family.

"Everything about the Baha'i Faith and the early lives of its founders is available on the internet."

I know, that's where I found it, lol.

"Women members are on more committees and assemblys than men. There are more woman bahais than men."

But still no women in the UHJ for all that.

"It incorporates within its structure certain elements which are to be found in each of the three recognized forms of secular government, is devoid of the defects which each of them inherently possesses, and blends the salutary truths which each undoubtedly contains without vitiating in any way the integrity of the Divine verities on which it is essentially founded."

So it's basically perfect and not subject to any merely human emendation? Was Bahaullah something more than human?

I don't know much about the Baha'i faith, but I love their burritos.

This will make the GD pagans come crawling out of the woodwork

No green Jello, but a weird 19 day calendar. No thanks.

And some very specific rules about burial.


It is forbidden you to carry the body more than an hour's distance from the town; bury it with tranquillity and cheer in a nearby place.

This command applieth to distances by sea as well as by land, whether it is an hour by steamship or by rail; the intention is the hour's time, whatever the means of transport. The sooner the burial taketh place, however, the more fitting and acceptable will it be.

In brief, the Bahá'í law for the burial of the dead states that it is forbidden to carry the body for more than one hour's journey from the place of death; that the body should be wrapped in a shroud of silk or cotton, and on its finger should be placed a ring bearing the inscription "I came forth from God, and return unto Him, detached from all save Him, holding fast to His Name, the Merciful, the Compassionate"; and that the coffin should be of crystal, stone or hard fine wood. A specific Prayer for the Dead is ordained, to be said before interment. As affirmed by `Abdu'l-Bahá and the Guardian, this law precludes cremation of the dead.

At the present time there are no definite regulations for preparing Bahá'í cemeteries. However, in a Tablet of the Master's, He emphasizes the need for the cemetery to have a beautiful outward appearance and states that the graves should not be joined together but that each one should have a flower bed around its four sides. He also indicates that it would be pleasing if a pool were located in the center of the cemetery and beautiful trees were planted around it as well as around the cemetery itself.

They were very kind and totally outmatched me--and I knew it. I fell in love with a young Ba'hai woman who was a friend of theirs. I have seldom felt so deeply as I did for her. She rearranged my psyche. I would have given up Mormonism for her. She left for Boliva as a Pioneer to teach her faith and I came home to the States. Wonderful memory and image.

Years later when I studied Jungian psychology, I understood she carried my Anima or projected idealized image of a woman. I still feel alive and young when I think of her.

Following my mission I became friends with an older Ba'hi couple and used to visit them at their home until they moved away. I met him where he worked at a local grocery store. They were very nurturing and kind, also. He used to often say to me, "Firm, but fair." I can't speak to the larger faith itself, but I took good things away from the Ba'hai people I met.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2011 12:25AM by robertb.

Lots of cool info here. Thanks!

Ron

Remember "I'll Play for You?" They were Ba'haiian.