Isn't this grounds for excommunication for some bishops???
"Huntsman has called his adherence to Mormon practices “tough to define.’’ He has described himself as more spiritual than religious and as someone who gets “satisfaction from many different types of religions and philosophies.’’"
Yeah, I think so. I'm pretty sure that he stopped going to church when he became governor.
He also talks sometimes about there being different levels of Mormonism. He says he is proud of his pioneer heritage, but that there are many ways to approach Mormonism.
It is kind of cool actually, as an exmo, I can accept how he feels about things.
So long as Huntsman swears that TSCC is true, that JS is a prophet, (blah, blah, blah) and pays his tithing on time, he gets to have his TR and all the speshal blessing that go with it. Remember the 13th Article of Faith about seeking after great and wonderful things (and then claiming them for Mormonism).
I see no excommunication for Huntsman just because he (claims to be) is open minded. In the end, he must endorse the Morg or lose out on the big CK.
And of course the laugher was the Newsweek article that described the former Utah Governor as "tall and lean." I'm not quite six feet, and he looked me squarely in the Adam's apple on our own encounter in the breezeway of the Salt Lake Hilton.
Of Keith Olbermann's move from MSNBC to Current... For a time he had a FOK News (FOK=Friends of Keith) site, and this lovely lady--Liz Tyler who posted below me--who's a computer sharpie put together this site, kind of a "Facebook for Political Junkies" social site...
Given that politics are pretty much forbidden here (a policy I've come to agree with), and with the prospect of a Romney candidacy or a Huntsman now or in 2012, I just kind of moved over there much of the time (and I get to recycle a whole bunch of one-liners). There's appears to be a lot curiosity about Mormonism, and I for one don't see many differences between the Mormon Right wing zealots (of the LDS Freedom Forum variety) and the Teapublican crowd. Fortunately, at this point there still seems to be considerable animosity between the two camps, a factor that creates what I view as some welcome "political entropy."
Thank you both for you favorable comments; right now some awful trolls are raising hell on Current, and it can get butt ugly (and I'm generally willing to wade into the cesspool and hold some heads under). There's room for civility in poltical discussions, but right now there's so much extremism it's often absent.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2011 09:21PM by SL Cabbie.
I follow KO regularly and have liked the move. Current has been one of my favorite stations for years and years now. I started watching them back when all they played were political and cultural v-logs.
Now I think I need to check out the Current forums and partake in all of the drama :)
With a retention rate of 30% or so in the U.S. for LD$ Inc, Huntsman did the math and realizes there are far more disenfranchised mormon registered voters than there are TMB registered voters.
Huntsman hasn't been active for a long time. He has said many things that go against the grain of what is "accepted" Mormonism, and has even lost a lot of the Mormon vote because of it.
I would be surprised if Huntsman has any standing in the church.
However, as to whether or not he feels he is a cut above the rank and file, I don't know. I doubt that Mormon rich people and non-Mormon rich people are any different in that regard.
You can be inactive, break the Word of Wisdom and pick and choose the aspects of Mormonism that you like and you'll get a posh label like "unorthodox Mormon." You can make up your own high-class label for your "unconventional" approach to the religion.
If you do the same things, but live in a trailer park, you don't get to pick your label. You're just a "jack Mormon" or a "backslider."
It's kind of like cars. If you're trying to sell an old BMW, it's a "previously owned automobile." If you're trying to sell an old Chevrolet, it's a "used car."
Clearly he has to distance himself from the religious disaster that is Mitt Romney. Pure Mormon has no sales appeal, especially in the critical southern states. Gordon Hinckley knew this, hence his waffling.
Jon Huntsman is a more astute politician than Mitt Romney. He seems to function in the real world and can see that Kolob is not mainstream. So simple but Mormons just cannot believe that people RECOGNIZE the deception and distortions of the Mormon Church. They actually believe their "I'm Normal and I'm Mormon" ad is WORKING!!!!
To the contrary - it is BACKFIRING. Duh. NO normal group pays big bucks for an ad that says "we're normal."
I give Jon Huntsman thumbs up for not crippling his children with Mormon fundamentalist beliefs (and I don't mean polygamy). I mean such extreme ideas that they are unworthy if they aren't Mormon, that they have to follow the template laid out by the Mormon Church, that they can't explore the world of ideas freely.
He will lose the hardcore Mormon vote - yes, that miniscule segment, and gain the respect of the rest of us. Don't get too excited though. He only got 60 votes at the Iowa straw ballot compared to 4,000 plus for the wild woman and 4,000 plus for the wild man.
Agreed. He lost the Mormon vote, gained plenty of my respect, and will probably eventually fail.
Still, I kind of like the guy.
As far as Romney goes, I doubt that he really thinks Kolob has appeal, I just don't think he is honest enough or even knows how to deal with his religious PR disaster. He tried the Kennedy approach, and it failed miserably as well.
His mother is the daughter of an apostle. She was very upset at the granddaughter's wedding at the national cathedral. I heard this from someone who knows them. My impression is that its his mother's feelings, as the daughter of an apostle, that restrain him from openly rejecting Mormonism as she would take it as a personal humiliation and is pretty upset already.
Cristina Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > His mother is the daughter of an apostle. She was > very upset at the granddaughter's wedding at the > national cathedral. I heard this from someone who > knows them. My impression is that its his > mother's feelings, as the daughter of an apostle, > that restrain him from openly rejecting Mormonism > as she would take it as a personal humiliation and > is pretty upset already.
Pardon my ignorance, but his mother is the daughter of which apostle?
(I'm not challenging anyone -- the article stated as much. I just need a name.)
> > Pardon my ignorance, but his mother is the > daughter of which apostle? > > (I'm not challenging anyone -- the article stated > as much. I just need a name.)
OK, 30 seconds on wikipedia reveals the answer: David B. Haight.
Just for the record .... Jon Huntsman Jr. is NOT my brother. But it sure sounds like his mom did the same thing that my mom would've done if MY daughter got married at the National Cathedral. Hmmmmmmmm maybe our moms are clones of each other. My mom would've been very upset (especially at me) because she knows that the only place to get married is in the House of the Lord because the Mormon church is God's true church and anyone who doesn't know this is NOT going to the Celestial Kingdom. And my mom would've been especially upset at me because I'm the returned missionary who is supposed to have all the knowledge of the truth and here I went poisoning my daughter with wordly crap instead of making sure she was taught the pure truth of being 100% obedient to the LDS church.
It's already no surprise to me that Jon Huntsman Jr. is certainly no TBM. It's also no surprise to me that his mom (daughter of David H. Haight and wife of a Seventy & Billionaire who is a former Stake President in Salt Lake & full-time Mission President in Washington DC) would be sad to see her husband's namesake Jon Huntsman Jr. have a daughter get married in the National Cathedral. They spent 3 years leading the cause to get people in the DC area married in the DC temple (not the National Cathedral) and here goes her granddaughter defying her religion.
I'm going to remember this story when it comes time for my daughter (now 16) to get married. We live in an area that's about 40% TBM, she's unbaptized and definitely low-risk of ever becoming TBM, and she's made it very clear that she's NOT going to get married in the temple. There's a chance that my mom or other fanatical TBM relatives could make a scene. Thus I'll pre-emptively help her (if she requests) make sure that her wedding (whenever that day may come) is free from the idiocies of Mormondom by my family tree.
I think Governor Huntsman's political career is dead in Utah now. My TBM friends are not impressed by how he's answered questions on Mormonism in the media. They're putting their support towards Romney because he's true to the faith.
I'm impressed by his admission of open-mindedness on this front, and I take him at his word if for no other reason than that it's not a very smart move politically. Most of his Republican cohorts are pretty busy establishing themselves as credible adherents of Christianity.
The conservative Christian crowd-- the same crowd Romney is worried about, and the main constituency that views Mormonism with special suspicion-- doesn't take kindly to wishy-washy "I'm more spiritual than religious" stuff. They'd probably be less suspicious of a Mormon trying be a Christian than a guy who isn't even trying to fit into that scene.
I don't often agree with Huntsman politically, but I think it was a pretty bold move on his part and one I admire-- especially in this political climate that seems to reward firm religious convictions, however irrational.
I have often said that there are as many different kinds of Mormons as there are Mormons. I have never met two that live and believe the teachings exactly the same way. There is a wide variety in how members (especially those with a long cultural heritage), live and believe in the LDS Church teachings. Huntsman is one example.
even choosing what they want to believe and what they privately do not believe. But when you boil it all down, there are certain claims that the Church makes that don't give you any logical wiggle room. People who think that they can disbelieve the traditional claims about the authority of the living prophet, the veracity of the Book of Mormon, the genuineness of the Book of Abraham, etc....and still refer to themselves as "believing Mormons" are really just kidding themselves and creating their own fantasyland within the fantasyland created by Joseph Smith and his successors.
you either believe in it or you don't. Huntsman obviously doesn't. I'm personally comfortable with gray areas and gradients and subtle shades of differentation. But Mormonism is really a binary proposition. It's either what it claims to be or it's a hoax and a farce. I believe the evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of the latter. I mean even it's el supremo maximum leaders, such as Hinckley, have at various times said it's all true (the First Vision, the Book of Mormon/golden plates, etc.) or it's a hoax.
When you get into this area of trying to "redefine" what brand of Mormonism someone like Huntsman believes in or come up with a new label such as "Reformed Mormonism," I think you're really just talking nonsense. It's really leaving the arena of religion and entering the arena of politics and public relations. Huntsman probably sees himself as needing the Mormon block vote less than Romney does, so he has no need or desire to play to the Mormons as much, but he obviously doesn't want to go out of his way to offend devout Mormons either.
I think Huntsman disagrees. The vast majority of what he has said about Mormonism has been that there are a lot of shades of grey. He seems to view himself as one of those shades.
Of course, whether or not we believe a politician is something we all have to decide.
We even have a lot of terms for "shades of grey" Mormons such as JackMos or NOMs. How many Mormons are out there who drink, or have sex, don't go to church yet still consider themselves Mormon? How many Mormons are out there who claim that they are "righteous," yet drink and have extra marital intimacy?
Even beyond that, how many exmos feel an attachment to Mormon, or Pioneer culture?
I personally haven't known a lot of semi-believing Mormons who would drink, but I've known a lot of incredibly reasonable people who don't believe in any sort of God, but feel a cultural identity at least in some part within the scope of Mormonism.
Huntsman might be lying, but I doubt those folks are.
He sounds a lot like a closet non-believer (new order mormon) who just doesn't want to rock the boat with his family and Mormon acquaintances by admitting he no longer believes in it. He sounds WAY too open minded to be still be a believer (even if he is inactive).