Are there any active Mormons who are tbm,yet take atsnad gainstt he belief in man made global warming?Would they feel an outcast in the Mormon church?

I hope not, though.

Yes, there are.

My family believes that the global warming is nothing but "the accomplishment of the prophecies". They refuse to believe anything else.

WTH

mmhhhh...you may want to ask a tbm mormon i guess. no really. i'm trying to be a smart ass or anything bro.

is this for a paper?

most people here are either in the church for fear of losing family, etc or already on their way out. so our response won't fully represent the views of an active tbm moron. tbm morons usually follow each other and don't really dare to ask the hard questions especially when denotes 'free thinking'.

remember that the thinking part has been done for them.

***BUT**

if you ask me, an atheist, i think it's sham.
how can 0.04% of CO2 in the atmosphere can cause global warming? of all gases? and that 0.04% has remained constant?

the global warming is in direct correlation to the amounts of solar storms/flares. the more solar storms we get, the hotter it gets here.

you could also go to nasa (and other countries with space programs, and universities, etc) and look at the data of other planets. they are also 'warming'.

you could also do the correlation yourself.

why after +-1946 (the 2nd industrial revolution) we see lower temperatures? then in the 1970s there were fears of a global cooling although we had more machines. that rules out C02.

my two cents.

+1...a sham. But I suppose the Mormons will follow the prophet like the little sheep they are. What he says goes.

Is this why AGW is the flavour of the month?

+1 no religion...

We still get TONS of smog in the winter and thats not natural. I still think that even though global warming isnt such a big deal, its still important to take care of what we have (clean water, air, etc) Not crazy never-gonna-shower hippy style, but consideration.

Anyone else think so?

And that's why they are skeptical.

Scientists usually don't lie and create data like they do for this scam.

I'm guessing right-wing Mormons always thought so, but they just acted to oppose the left, not because the science shows it's the SUN that is changing the climate.

I will say my experience in the mormon church taught me to be very skeptical of the perceived reality. Always remember anyone can be bought off or threatened to say anything and also ask yourself who benefits from what is being sold.

Don't so much look at the so called problem but the solution being sold and ask yourself if it's for the greater good or do only a few people benefit from it. In most cases it's the later.

I think the more we learn about this planet the more we learn we don't know as much as we thought we did. It's dynamic and unpredictable. It been through much worse things than we ever could dish out. I would say the earth will still be here after mankind becomes part of the long list of extinct species this planet has seen and by the way, most of the extinct species we didn't kill. The earth and the universe did them in. Super volcanos, asteroid hits, polarity shifts ect...

CateS Wrote:
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> n/t

And your point would be???

Thing is CateS, we have seen through one big money making scam. Maybe AGW is just another shell game?

Scientists on the "gravy train?"

Are you saying that scientists who purport to believe in global warming can't be trusted because they are in some way profiting personally from it? How do you support this claim?

My opinion is that I do, in fact, believe what those "gravy train" scientists claim.

But maybe they are wrong. The worst thing that can happen is that the air is cleaner and healthier.

If we do nothing and they're right, the planet becomes uninhabitable.

I tend to side with the conservative approach. I want to do the thing that will conserve the planet for all life long after I'm dead.

Don't you know that the only scientists that can be trusted, are the ones being paid by business interests?

So I just follow the money and there's the answer.

Briggy

Oh wow, that is exactly what I think. I don't think anybody else has ever presented it so well.

Human caused global change - I'm skeptical and have no idea if it is true or not.

The taxes and political games behind the notion - Bullshit demagoguery meant to try and sway people's opinions and money.

Still, you said it better :)

I would assume most Mormons are skeptical of Global Warming since most Mormons are staunch Republicans (and since Republicans/Conservatives are generally opposed to science when it means there might be more taxes or government involvement).

I'm going with the vast majority of scientists on this one. I may be wrong, they may be wrong, but I will side with science and logic. Many TBMs don't believe in science.

elcid Wrote:
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> I'm going with the vast majority of scientists on
> this one. I may be wrong, they may be wrong, but
> I will side with science and logic. Many TBMs
> don't believe in science.

The majority of scientists? Or the scientists on the gravy train?

Oh, yes! People should never ask an ex-Mormon about Mormonism, gotta ask the Mormons for the 'real' information!

Not all scientists accept AGW as gospel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2011 03:13PM by matt.

It's not about the majority of scientists accepting it. It's about the majority of scientists that specialize in that field. And the vast majority of them agree. But you don't have to take their word for it. You can look at the data yourself. The globe is in a warming trend and we are the major cause of it.

Appealing to the authority of science based on their authority is not logical. Being skeptical, however, is a very logical and defensible position.

I'm not trying to attack you by any means, but it needed to be said.

Mars temps are up almost the same as earth. Co2 levels have not changed that much on earth.some recent year average temps have gone down. if you follow science it is hard to believe man is the only cause. like it was said before who got rich off of this scam.

and the vast majority of scientists are honest people with no political agenda.

unlike these crooks from the University of East Anglia

on falsifying data:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/climate-change/4338343

on political interests:
http://globalwarminghoax.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/even-the-criminals-of-climategate-avoid-gore/


on what's exactly happening:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7228/abs/nature07669.html

http://globalwarminghoax.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/new-nasa-data-blow-gaping-hole-in-global-warming-alarmism/

http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf


and so on and so forth

I'll post this again, since you don't seem to ever actually look at other sources

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz8Ve6KE-Us&feature=player_embedded#!

Here's what the climatologists think.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/01/97_of_active_climatologists_ag.php

Don't bring real scientists into the discussion!

You can only trust facts from alarmist conspiracy websites, don't you know!

have more interest in maintaining status quo than heathen scientists do to invent bad science.

who are we talking about?

oil companies

oil delivery

oil refinerys

oil extraction and technologies

oil suppliers

oil financers

car manufacturers

govt officials latched to the oil teat

... add "coal" to the above list, too.

@pharrell - bro, if you notice, your link shows date of jan 2009.
the hoax was uncovered in nov-dec 2009.

regardless of their opinion as such, we should look at the [unfalsified true] data.

everything so far, to the best data available, global warming/cooling points to a positive correlation with sun flares/solar storms.

Plenty of Mormons take a stance against the popular, more liberal, opinion on global warming. They do this because they are Republican and tend to listen to talking heads that cater to Republicans. Glenn Beck is a good example of this type of talking head, and he is a huge global warming skeptic.

Of course, in the younger generation of Mormons, there tend to be more liberal ideas and appeal, so you will see less of the staunch global warming skepticism that is a characteristic of the older generation.

On a side note, I'm not sure if you meant to open up a political conversation, but it certainly turned into one. Frankly, I'm glad that so many other people are skeptics, just like me :)

Every so often we get threads about global warming.

I’d like to make everyone happy and try to show why both sides are right. There was a geologist here who tipped me off about a book by Richard Alley called The Two Mile Time Machine about an ice core study. (I’m frustrated that I can’t remember that poster’s name at the moment. Maybe he will drop in.)

That book led me to do further investigation and I’ve decided that both sides are only seeing part of the complicated issue of climate change.

The global warming deniers are right about the big picture. The earth has had extremes before and over time will again long after we are gone. It seems naïve to think that humans control anything. Ice ages have come and gone. Earth was once molten hot. And these happened without humans burning oil.
I don’t think anyone would argue with how insignificant humans have been in Earth’s geological history. The item that the global warming supporters are really talking about is not exactly the same idea as what the deniers are pointing out. The issue is really about ABRUPT climate change.
From what I can figure out (backed by evidence from the ice core), when there have been abrupt changes, there was a straw that broke the camel’s back (so to speak) and measurements that showed what seemed to trigger a big change. This is where we humans come in. We are insignificant in the big picture, but we can be the straw that broke the camel’s back. We can trigger something abrupt. Let me explain.

We have been in a sweet spot when it comes to climate for tens of thousands of years. The factors that balance and maintain that sweet spot have been relatively consistent. But humans can tip the scale just enough to pop us out of the sweet spot. That appears to be what is happening. The book explains exactly what small things humans do and how they can have a huge impact when it comes to abrupt climate changes.

Sure, the sun and things far bigger than humans have a bigger impact, but humans potentially could speed things up and ruin the lucky current circumstances we have enjoyed. We are in a fragile lucky loop as we can see from the core sample. Breaking the loop will likely kick us out of the climate garden of Eden.

So, it is not like in the big picture anyone expects the climate to stay in nice cycles that have been so suitable for human prosperity. But in the small picture, we could tip the scales. The global warming advocates are really talking about ways to prolong and maintain the fortunate loop we are in. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about what the issues really are. Maybe I am misunderstanding as well.

If anyone is interested in the evidence the ice core presents, check out Alley’s book. You can know why we happen to be in a sweet spot and what exactly the human activity can do.

Also, here is a video of Dr. Alley being interviewed. He doesn’t really go into the topic in depth, but you can get maybe get an idea of what I’m trying to explain. I'm still gathering information on this topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4GThA35s1s

Regardless of whether or not one "believes" in the global warming phenomenon (as if it were a religion), and/or whether it is caused (or contributed to by) human activities, why would anyone condone the continuation of man-made pollution? This is dangerous to human survival in the air, sea, and land. So the emphasis should be in the decrease in man-casued pollution in all forms, including excessive CO2 output.