I wish to draw your attention to the kindness that mimmmi received here recently. She apologized for her English (which was damn good), and RfMers put out the welcoming mat, assuring her that her English didn't matter.

Contrast that with buddyjoe who emailed me this morning that he will not be posting here any more. You may remember him as the man from Germany who had a great family. The Mormon missionaries baptized his parents and as the church tightened their vice of guilt, his loving parents began beating him. Their hearts were hardened in this "Church of Jesus" and they eliminated bad influences from his life: his beloved Grandpa, because he dared to preach religious tolerance, his extended family were eliminated and especially his friends from school. i His youngest sister was molested by a Mormon leader and his father (obsessed with appearances) made her apologize. It ruined her. You can read his story here in biographies. It is rare that we get a detailed story of how a family can be utterly destroyed by a gospel which pretends to be Family First and is anything but that.

Buddyjoe posted frequently and is leaving because he didn't get the nice treatment we gave to mimmmi. When he posted something that wasn't spelled correctly and wasn't clear, there was a rude reply "WTF -- repost in English."

Our purpose here is not just to mock Mormonism and entertain ourselves. It is supposed to be a safe haven where we practice respect for others even as we swear and disagree.

I think we owe buddyjoe an apology. We can do better.


Anagrammy

Besides people who post that English is not their native language, there were occasions in the past where people were giving people who use text to speech a hard time.

I'm totally sorry that anyone who is trying to post and get harassed for minor things.

I've read some of buddyjoe's posts and found he made good points, and sometimes has a humorous slant on things.

It seems not too long ago Susan I/S posted a sticky reminding people to lighten up on spelling and grammar complaints.

I marvel at anyone who can be understandable, especially in another language.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2011 08:46PM by nomilk.

It may have been because I had just posted something.

I will post it again because I MEAN IT. BTW, if anyone sees someone playing Police, LET ME KNOW.

****
Let admin be admin, that is why we get paid the big bucks. If you think something is over the line, hit report or mail me direct, ExMoLight@gmail.com. The report button is NOT anon. It gives me your name, it does not give me your email so if you want a reply mail me direct.

WE DO NOT NEED A NANNY -
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/nanny.htm

Be it for spelling, grammar, OT, or anything else. We are about content around here. We want everyone to feel free to participate and NOT BE JUDGED. Think someone has a problem, mail. Need help because English is not your first language, mail. Think someone is a constant hijacker, mail. Think ANYTHING is a problem MAIL.

PS from Hubby - Don't be so damn nasty to each other!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2011 08:58PM by Susan I/S.

It's always nice to have posters from other countries and cultures post here.

Sometimes, though, I don't think everyone realizes they are posting with a non-native English speaker. It's great to ask for clarification, but it isn't necessary to be snarky about it. I, too, remember posters giving shit to the poster using voice to type.

I could tell buddyjoe was a German speaker before he revealed his location. Being able to speak German makes picking out a German speaking English easier, lol. But perhaps for that same reason, I don't have difficulty understanding what buddyjoe is trying to say.

BuddyJoe: Please stay. You have a very interesting perspective and story and the board will be poorer without you here. Ignore the obnoxious and you'll do just fine.

Tschuess! (sorry, no german fonts on at the moment!)

Erin

is not the poster's native language is quite a tribute to how well the poster speaks and writes in English. Those who criticize probably don't even realize that they may be criticizing a person who may have mastered two or more languages and speaks at least one of them better than the criticizer.

I love to grammar police as much as the next guy, but to do it to anyone's exit story is just uncool. I went back and reread Buddy Joe's exit story and all the comments seemed positive (and, you may note, I called it a "beautiful story"). Were the offending comments deleted or were the existing comments misconstrued? Or was it another post?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,290732,292163#msg-292163

If anyone can grammar police due to sheer writing "skillz" it's Anagrammy.

Search for buddyjoe and it will come up. Sorry I have to run :)

Ana

Looks like we have a Buddyjoe and a Buddy joe. The former is German and the latter is presumably a native English speaker.

Absolutely... Having lived in a foreign country and trying badly to speak another language to get a point across, it can be both frustrating and humiliating. Helping someone with language is one thing, making fun or teasing is another.

Some posters tell you right off that English is not their language so it's easier for us to know instead of coming to that conclusion later. I think it is impressive when someone can post in a second language. I sure can't.

Also, I think it can make a difference if someone lurks here first so they know what to expect. Sometimes people jump in before knowing what can happen here and they aren't prepared. It just sort of depends on how things roll.

He had one post that said:

"Re: Why do many esmormons go atheist???
Hurt feelings, beeing lied too and scamed?"

That was actually the first post I had read from him. I didn't respond or look into his story after reading that.

It sounds like he had bad experiences with Mormonism. It's hard for us to access who needs what here. A lot of times it is totally arbitrary who I reply to. We do have posters who are more touchy or needy than others. We have posters who have been about drama with no substance. We have posters who are very deserving of attention and never get the feedback they deserve. Many of us can't keep up with everything here so we just respond as we want. It's all good.

Maybe buddyjoe was one who deserved better.

you are helping people by sharing your view from a different perspective. We need that here.

And we promise to be more polite.


Ana

I thought he communicated all of his thoughts very well. Prior to learning that he is from Germany, I didn't even realize that English wasn't his native language.

I'm constantly finding goofy mispellings and typos in my own posts, and wondering how I missed them when I was writing--and English is my native language. At least I think it is. I'm not so sure after the alien abduction last year, when an oddly mustachioed gray alien with Elvis-like sideburns implanted some kind of brain chip via my nasal cavit--but that's a story for another day. ;o)

I'd just say to Buddyjoe: Don't let a few rough comments from a few posters ruin it for you. Just let such comments roll off your back like drops of light rain rolling off freshly waxed and polished BMW speeding down the autobahn. The rest of us are riding along with you.

You know, if the control freaks who operate the Mormon empire of mind control ever get the idea that all they have to do to stop exmos from talking to each other is plant a few posters to make attack comments, it'll be game over for us, unless we simply refuse to be intimidated. Just calmly and persistently make your voice heard and ignore the gratuitous attacks.

I'm a person who lives in a non-English speaking country and I have to use a different language than English for most of my day-to-day interactions with people. I take pride in being able to speak the language fairly well and I know how it feels whenever someone jumps on me for making a mistake or garbling a sentence. Sometimes they're right, though, so I just see it as a "lesson" in my never-ending effort to get better. Sometimes, it's really their problem and not mine. There's always some clown who is so dense that they probably have a hard time understanding their fellow native speakers, but when they see a foreigner, they blame it all on the foreigner. For example, I often come into situations where I use exactly the same expression that I've used 99 times before with perfect success and perfect understanding...and then I come across some person who just can't comprehend, no matter what.

I kid you not, I did not understand a word the person said and thought he was speaking a foreign language. :)

(Of course I was just a kid at the time.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2011 11:33PM by Rebeckah.

I'm genuinely sorry that buddyjoe felt unwelcome. I feel a strong admiration for anyone who tries to communicate in a foreign language and does it as well as buddyjoe does. His story is heartbreaking. I hope that he'll reconsider his decision to leave.

It's often been said here that church members and investigators outside of the USA have a hard time finding out the truth about the church, due to the dearth of resources in their native languages. That's why I think that it's critical that we are welcoming to newcomers whose first language is not English.

I admit that I'll go after the grammar and spelling of the arrogant church apologists (just before I hit that report button!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2011 10:00PM by summer.

I think it is easy for people to be rude on the Internet. I would bet they wouldn't say what they have said on a forum to your face. I am sorry you were offended.

I speak a very, very little bit of Deutsch (badly) and I fondly remember a very long conversation that I had in Germany when I was visiting there while my daughter was an infant. It consisted of:

"How old is your baby?"

(She patiently repeated that four times until I remembered my high school German and told her 4 months.)

Followed by:

"Is it a boy or a girl?"

Yep, that took me several tries to interpret too. But she was kind and patient and I was just thrilled that I had a chance to actually use something I learned in school. I've also done story proof reading for several of my friends overseas -- I would offer comments with my corrections which they said helped their conversational English. I have a great deal of admiration for anyone who attempts to communicate in a language which is not native to them. And I doubt there is much a recovery community in Germany. Please don't allow a few bad mannered individuals to drive you away. This is actually a pretty welcoming and kind community most of the time.

I too am impressed by how well buddyjoe wrote english. His english is way better than my german. On Bidamon's thread where Bidamon asked if rfm type info was on the net in other languages too, i asked the germans on this site,if there was a german forum. I got a link to a forum in german and went there. I could barely understand what was being said!

That being said, there were times he asked questions, which i could tell were because he doesn't know american terms so i posted a brief explanation.

Just like when i don't understand something and i ask, i like to get an informational response.

I,too wish he'd come back.
The german forum i looked at was not used very much, so it doesn't provide the same support as this one does.

Hey Eric, you're going global!!!

Keep posting buddyjoe. I enjoy your posts...

Btw...to the poster LOL...I know someone who was molested by a church "leader"...she refused to return to church after, and her parents didn't believe her. Her persistence prevailed and she hasn't been back since she was about 10 y/o.

Just because a story seems "unbelievable" or horrific doesn't make it false...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2011 11:44PM by Lost Mystic.

I reported a molestation that I witnessed and both the perpetrator AND the victim denied it ever happened. This is the glory of Mormoinism, folks. It's the WHOLE POINT.

People are forced to choose between the church and telling the truth. If they tell the truth about the bishop-molester, they risk losing their standing in the church--treated like traitors.

The Stake President chased after me for months asking me for details of my sexual life. I was a new member and he figured I wouldn't know where to draw the line (well, he was partly right). Needless to say, it only took me three months in the church to realize that telling anyone that the Stake Pres was a lech was a waste of time.

No one would believe me except you guys and that's just as true today as it was back in the 70's.

I say every word buddyjoe said was true. I believe him absolutely.

Anagrammy

I want to say, that the most people here on the board very caring people. Doesn’t matter if Atheists, Christians, or something different. A lot of people here have actually a place to vent, become help and give advice.
I’ll thank everyone on the board. You are very special people and many of you had a lot suffering experienced. It is may be for a European much easier to leave the cult because the society and surrounding environment is completely different than in SLC.
Thanks for listening to me.
Joe

I hope you reconsider, Buddy, and stay. I haven't gotten to know people very well yet, but I do know you have a good personality. Thanks for sharing your story here! Stick around so we can chat and recover from our experiences. :-)

I think one of the problems of the board going ESL is the sarcasm/ idioms used by many of us that may not be translated correctly into another language. I'm not saying this is buddy's particular problem but just something i thot of that may affect people's understanding of a post or thread.

A word to ESLers, if something is said that you don't get PLEASE ask for a translation into more 'correct' english.

Also, sometimes people dont know a poster isn't english, even if it was said once because they missed that thread or post.

Maybe part of a moniker could state not english, or just the language of origin so it is easily seen. - Just a thot. ( I like to present solutions to problems if i can, not just state problems. :) Of course if someone thinks of a better solution than that one, i'm fine with that too.

I thought buddyjoe's english improved with every post--practice makes perfect (no, I don't mean like with testimonies).

I do recall Buddy mentioning English was not his first language in a different thread.

What bothers me is the frequent use of text-speak!

As in abbreviations like when people are texting on their phones. How r u 2day? A little bit is fine but when it is every other word it starts looking ridiculous.

I see more people doing it on Facebook and on another forum that I am on.

Whether a person can speak/use the language doesn't mean his/her opinion or POV isn't important.

Good grief, there are posters whose first language is English and make all sorts of grammatical errors & such. Everyone deserves to be heard and treated with respect.

A lot of people get treated with disrespect here particularly if they hold unpopular views. I often wonder how many people leave because they have been treated rudely or have seen someone else treated rudely.This is hardly an isolated instance. Just saying.