First time poster... for all I know, this thread will be removed before anyone is able to provide some insight to a heartrending situation going on in my life, because while it involves a Mormon (two of them, actually), I'm not one nor will I ever be, thankfully.

This will also be a wall of text. I didn't see anything in the forum rules about not doing that, but give up on the post once you're bored, I guess.

I recently ended a 5-year relationship with a man who is a Mormon. I was raised Catholic, but haven't being a practicing Catholic in many years. I do, however, have a strong faith in God.

Throughout the 5 years with this man, he hasn't had any involvement with the Church. We were a couple for the first 4 of those years. We "broke up" (for the 3rd time - yeah, I beat myself up about it more than anyone else can for letting it go on so long) in June of 2010, but remained friends (so to speak). I ended our friendship on September 13, 2011.

J is 27 (now). I am 49 (now). To make things worse than the huge age gap, we live 2500 miles apart. Long-distance relationships suck, even in the best of circumstances, but when one of the parties lies, denies, and avoids open communication with the other, it's doomed to fail. It was doomed to fail from the start in reality, but I loved him anyway (stupid me). I certainly never intended on falling in love with someone almost a year younger than my own daughter, or who lived so far away, or any of that. He managed to sweet talk his way through all the walls I'd put up and embedded himself in my heart.

Early on in our relationship, he spoke of his dreams of wife, kids, white picket fence... you know... the sort of dreams we all have as kids/adolescents. I didn't know very much about the LDS church, so I used to ask a LOT of questions so I could better understand him.

I won't go into detail about everything that went wrong in this relationship, but it was one filled with lie after lie after lie. He lied to everyone... his parents, his supposed best friend (his parents never found out about me until a couple days after I ended the friendship and sent his parents a letter detailing what a good little liar their son was), but worse, he lied to me, the woman he *claimed* to love, be devoted to, respect, etc. for those 4 years we were together. I caught him in many of his deceptions. I'm now very certain there are many I never managed to find out about and reveal. He kept promising me it wouldn't happen again, but of course it did. And I was foolish enough to give him another chance (and another, and another, and another).

The breaking point came two weeks ago. A & N (a married couple, A was Mormon, N never was - they'd been married for just under a year when all this crap hit the fan and really splattered), J & me were all friends. A left N, drove 2200 miles to be with J. Where A & N lived, she has to wait 6 months for the divorce to become final. She claimed the reason she and N were divorcing is because she "wanted the Lord back in her life and N wouldn't accept her religion" (maybe because N's religion is actually TRUTHFUL and A can't do anything but lie to herself and anyone who will listen to make herself appear more the victim).

If her TRUE intent was to get the Lord back into her life, wouldn't she do everything possible to NOT throw his commandments out the window?? ie, REALLY move back home with Daddy or even a FEMALE friend... not move most of the way across the country to move in with a guy she's never met in person just because he's the same religion she is???

Now, is it just me or is moving into the home of a single man, whether or not they're both freaking Mormon considering WRONG in the LDS church??? J, when asked by another friend, how long A was staying, said, "Hopefully for forever." J's parents know a married woman (aka cheating ho-bag) is living with their son, but it seems they don't have a problem with that because, hey, she's Mormon, she's appropriately aged, and even though they're returning to the fold (good sheep, nice sheep), isn't doing so based on so many lies as to the status of their relationship something that even the LDS church frowns upon (at least on the surface)?? Other than his parents (and only because I told them she was still/already married), no one else knows A is a married woman (Someone needs to make a Scarlet "A" and send it to her - and it won't represent her name, that's for sure). It's doubtful anyone where they attend services even know they're living together, although that will soon change, as N will be transferring A's records to the ward where she lives now, with J. Will the LDS church even blink an eye that they have an adulterous, lying dimwit in their midst? Somehow I doubt they'll even care one whit.

Why do I care if they are sinning with their words and their actions? Why do I care at all? I still care a great deal about J even if he has treated me poorly through the last 3 years I've known him (I'm nothing if not a great doormat for opportunists like J to wipe their muddy feet on again and again I guess). A, on the other hand, I have no use for. People who cheat on their spouses for whatever reason are the lowest form of scum on this planet, alongside murderers and rapists, IMO.

What makes it even worse, is J had been courting another Mormon lady for over 6 months till the convenient piece of a** (aka A) presented itself as an opportunity to jump (in more ways than one) on. Something awful had happened to this other Mormon gal and J told her "I'll wait for you, but not too long." Then less than a week later, told her "Sorry, I just want to be friends" even though he'd said again and again, "I screwed things up with her back in high school... I'm NOT going to screw it up this time." Sorry, J, but you REALLY screwed it *this* time with her.

To me, J is desperate to get married (which is sad in and of itself since he can barely afford to support himself, much less a wife and kids) and it seems as though he doesn't care *who* he marries as long as he can show her off to mommy and daddy (even if she is already married to someone else) because she's "appropriate" (a year younger than him and Mormon) and that somehow proves he's not a lying sack of crap loser boy.

I guess what I'd like your thoughts on, folks, is other than what must sound solely like a story borne of jealousy and/or bitterness, am I the only one who finds the whole situation of A & J's antics to be wrong in SO many ways? Despite all the lying that happens from the top on down in the Mormon church, are they REALLY that screwed up that they won't give a rat's bottom about supporting an adulteress and her boy-toy as long as they come back to the fold?? I'm bitter, yes, because as a human being, I feel I deserved to be treated MUCH better than I had been by J, but jealousy doesn't really enter into it. Everything about J A's relationship is morally wrong and based on so many lies.

As I told J when I ended our friendship, "Some bridges are worth burning. Too bad you and A weren't staked to the middle of it when it went up in flames." (yeah, I'm just a bit angry at all the lies J told me, the final straw being one that he told me A was "moving home, somewhere in California" until N (her husband) called me to ask me what J's address was because that's where N was to ship all his wife's stuff).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2011 10:17AM by ksg821.

He doesn't want YOU. And given that he treated you poorly over a period of years, lied to you, and ran off with a friend, I don't see it as being a bad thing.

You'll get over him. It might take a while, but you will. In connection with this, you might find the book, "He's Just Not That Into You" to be a helpful remedy.

You are correct that the Mormon church frowns heavily on premaritial sex and unmarried people of the opposite sex cohabiting. Church members who engage in either or both activities are subject to church discipline. So J and A will either find a way to make it right with the church, or not, or will find a way to mess up their lives even further. Whatever they end up doing, it doesn't really matter, because they are both now firmly out of the picture as far as you are concerned.

You had a lot of strikes against you going into this relationship. You were dating a much younger man, who lived at a great distance from you, who wanted children, and who was a member of a highly controlling religion. Any one of those would have been difficult to surmount. But all four together? No one in their right mind would have bet on you succeeding with him. I'm sorry that you were hurt. However next time around, you might want to pursue a relationship where the odds are more in your favor.

Whether or not their church (ward) frowns on their behavior depends on whether or not they actually attend church, and - if so - what they divulge of their relationship. If they go to church, they may present themselves as "Mr & Mrs" (but if they have their church records forwarded to their ward, that would present a problem).

If they attend church - and their true relationship is discovered - then they may be subject to church discipline. Has J been on a mission? If so, they may excommunicated (because he'd have gone through the temple and should know better). Were A and N married in the temple? If so, the same might happen to her. If neither has gone through the temple, then they may just be put on probation, if they say they're sorry and promise not to be bad anymore.

Also, N should go ahead and send A's stuff to "somewhere in California" and she can try to get it from there herself...

J "promising not to be bad anymore" (and him actually NOT being bad) is about as likely as me growing dangly bits between my legs without surgical help... as in, not gonna happen. :D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2011 10:49AM by ksg821.

I knew full well that the likelihood of our relationship being anything more than temporary was pretty much non-existent. At one point, I found out I was pregnant (shortly after one of his visits) - I was "good enough to be with if I could carry the child to term" but if I lost the child, "there wasn't any reason to be together". Any time I tried to cut him out of my life, he poured on the sweet talk and weaseled his way back in. It's not going to happen this time.

They are indeed attending church now. I don't know how they're projecting themselves to the ward/stake/whatever, however.

A & N were not married in the temple (N is not Mormon). J did go on a mission, in Houston, TX.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2011 10:46AM by ksg821.

I am so sorry you spent so much time on an abusive, narcissistic asshole. He sounds like a textbook controlling, manipulative mormon guy. Him running off with the married woman was the best favor he could have done for you because, as painful as it was, it sure opened your eyes. Before you did something stupid like marry the guy and move across the country.

I've had a very similar experience and I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone. So, here's a hug from me {{{{{{{ksg821}}}}}}} and an assurance that, no, you are probably not the crazy one, and yes, that situation was effed up on 100 different levels, by orders of magnitude. And I am SO glad you broke off the friendship. You dodged a bullet and took your power back and high five to you.

Now. Take a deep breath.

When you get past the (understandable and justified, IMO) anger stage, you might consider a little soul searching to figure out what you've learned about yourself from this experience. One doesn't have to have been mormon to have some self-esteem issues to work on. When I was in a similar situation to yours, I had to ask myself why it was I was attracted to someone who would treat me so poorly? Why did I continue to give, and give, and give, and try, and try, and try for the love of a man who was never really going to give me that love anyway? He was just dangling it, like a tempting candy bar, in front of me to get me to do what he wanted. I wanted the love so badly, I'd happily sell myself out (allow the disrespect) and take the crap treatment over and over again just to hear the words that I knew the guy didn't mean.

And boy did I have a lot of work to do after I opened that can of worms. I really had to sort out some ideas and came up with this:

1. We cannot really help who we are attracted to.

2. But we can help who we are.

3. And if we see a need, we can make a change (or many) within ourselves in order to attract the type of person we believe we deserve.

I was attracted to assholes because I didn't think I deserved any better. I would allow a douchebag back into my life, even after being mistreated, because I didn't have any other options and I didn't want to be alone. So I'd settle for a jerk. And settle for being deeply unhappy. I had been a brainwashed little mormon teenager who was abused by my twice-my-age stepbrother, so to the mormon church, I was damaged goods and no decent righteous man would ever want me. Now I didn't believe in the church anymore, but somehow, I'd managed to internalize the idea that nobody would want a licked cupcake (insider mormon story there, maybe someone will tell you what that reference is all about). It took me 20 years to figure out that I had to accept myself, licked cupcake and all, and love me for myself before I could ever be attracted to someone ELSE who would accept me and love me for who I am. As soon as I did the self-esteem work and fell in love with myself (so to speak), I found myself really turned off by guys who were even the least bit disrespectful. The guy I'm with now would never treat me badly, ever. I knew I'd finally grown up past my problem when I realized how powerfully attracted I was (am) to him.

Finally. I fell in love with a Nice Guy, who is ACTUALLY nice and not just a passive-aggressive, controlling, manipulative douchebag.

So you've learned some lessons. When you get past the anger, you'll be learning a few more. Best of luck to you!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2011 02:53PM by dogzilla.

Thank you for the kind words. I know I have self-esteem issues, which I'm beginning to work on resolving. What I've learned about myself (unfortunately) is that I seem to keep picking the wrong guys. Some folks collect stamps, some collect coins. I collect losers. :D

My ex-husband (we were divorced in 1992) was physically and emotionally abusive. By the time I finally left him, I had NO self-worth/self-esteem. It took awhile to believe in myself again. The next guy I was involved with for a few years after my divorce was emotionally abusive to some degree but nowhere near as much as my ex. And then there's J. After having rebuilt so much of the self-esteem that I'd lost (it was nearly twelve years between my previous relationship and the one with J), he managed to shred a good deal of it, and I let it happen. Again.

My mother once said, after I got divorced, that I'd be by myself for the remainder of my life. I had just turned 30. I generally don't have a problem being in my own company, but it *would* be nice to eventually find someone who isn't an opportunistic dickhead that I can share my life with.

I soul search a lot... even when I'm losing myself in a relationship. I "fought back" more in this past relationship than I had in my previous ones, so apparently my tolerance for being treated like garbage has lessened, which is good.

I do write a lot... I've been writing my trip through this last relationship from start to finish... I'm still two years away from the ending of it and I already have 12 pages. :D

Thanks again for your words. I appreciate it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2011 06:18PM by ksg821.

Yep. Same here.

Picking the wrong guys = deep down, you don't believe you deserve or can do better.

But you do deserve a man who treats you right. You can do better.

And you will.

Time. Time is on your side. You'll get through this, and be smarter for it.
Write about it, talk about it, then when it's time, let it all go

Now is the time for you. You can cut all ties to the past that bamboozled you. Certainly, you've learned from it. No need to deal with that anymore.

You're OK. You are not burdened by the nonsense anymore.
Whew. What a relief, huh? :-)

.

It was a relief, actually, even though, pathetically enough, I still miss him. I know in time it will get better, and so will I.

I went on askamormon.org a few days ago, and skimmed over what happened, and asked what the likelihood of the Church taking any action against one or both of them for their behavior. While what the person who responded was informative, I have little hope that karma will swing around and boot them both in the backside. He could get ex-communicated, apparently, and who knows what will happen to her, as her marriage to N wasn't in the temple.

J even had the nerve to say that they weren't doing anything wrong, BECAUSE she hadn't been married in the temple. I was like, huh? She's still married in the eyes of the law, and guess what, dumbass, that's still adultery.

I know how you feel when it comes to collecting losers. I am generally attracted to psychos, pathological liars, sociopaths, etc. The crazier the chick the more I find myself drawn to her. I have decided that it's because my heart truly belongs to my art, and my heart is fully aware that my art is complete crap when I'm all happy and content. So my heart seeks out train-wrecks who will make me miserable so that I'll lock myself in my studio for days on end and create awesome stuff. I collect EXPERIENCES. Mostly really scary ones.

I don't see what any of this has got to do with you.

You and he parted company and have now parted friendship.
Whatever he does now is none of your business. He can shack up with 17 married women, cheat on all of them, turn gay, run naked through Temple Square, swindle all his family and friends out of squillions of dollars....and it would still be none of your business.

I don't say this to be harsh to you.
I say it because it's a fact.
You no longer feature on his radar.
He has moved on, so should you.

I've been there and done that. The best relationship advice I was ever given went like this "if your dog dies, bury him, then go out and get another dog"

Time to get yourself another dog...

Just because someone is out of one's life doesn't make them stop caring about them or wanting them to make *smart* choices.

I do still feature on his radar, because he is trying to guilt-trip mutual friends of ours into "siding" with him instead of supporting me as I try my best to move on from all the lies and hurt. He doesn't seem to realize that he (and A) are reaping what they've sown. The ripples of what they've done/are doing are a lot farther reaching than he wants to accept.

And quite frankly, after this last dog, I don't *want* another dog in my life anytime soon, but thanks for the suggestion.

Well, Stumbling, that is some interesting advice.

My dog died in April after 15 years together. I'm still not quite ready to run right out and get another one. There was and is, only one Dogzilla.

Now, in this case, ksg821 can and probably will do a hell of a lot better next time. But she should give herself some time to process this and get completely over the guy so she doesn't bring the baggage with her into the next relationship.

Thank you again, dogzilla. You have it very much on the mark.

Stumbling, telling me what he's doing is "none of my business" and to "find another dog"... You don't know the situation, therefore you know not of which you speak. I've seen some of your other posts... There's being factual and there's acting like an asshat toward other people. I'm seeing more of the latter than the former from many of your posts. In fact, a lot of the things you say, you sound an awful lot like J... except you spell a lot better than he does. :D