I am reposting my post on the following link because I would like to get more input from the RfM community. Some people started posting very good ideas and I would like you to repost those here so we have them all in one place. The thread was
closed--it was

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,303235,303651#msg-303651

There is a big management problem at the top now that they are a business because they are in denial of some basic facts which we here as exmormons see quite clearly.

For example, the idea that a different PR firm, or two additional PR firms working together can rebrand Mormonism is ridiculous when they have removed all the ingredients and warnings from the label of the product. Now it's just a blank box saying "Christian-like Religion." As if more deniability made it more attractive???

Also, the management doesn't seem to learn from experience. The new PR push is designed to stimulate the viewers to want to know more about Mormonism (this from their own mormon website). Yes, that's true maybe BUT as soon as they go get that additional information, their belief that Mormonism is weird is confirmed.

It would be far smarter to overhaul the church with a huge modern day revelation where someone claims an Angel appeared to him and told him the Book of Mormon was like unto a parable, and that the Doctrine and Covenants was being replaced by the King James Bible and the CHI and all other books were considered to be devotional aids in developing a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

They could call it the 2012 Latter Day Mormon Reorganization and could be announced at the site of the Mountain Meadows Massacre shortly after the apology and the gift of the site to the Fancher-Baker descendants, together with enough money for an interpretation center.

Yep--they could fix the problem and they wouldn't need a PR firm at all.



Anagrammy

But, yes, I think they do need to crap out a new "revelation." I think they are hitting some hard times right now. The resignation rates are probably hitting an all time high and they are in a panic. I predict they will just chalk it up to: "it's the end of times and the adversary is working overtime." Plus, the whole prop 8 thing has really pissed people off. It's gonna get interesting. I'm just gonna kick back with a cold brew and some popcorn and watch the drama unfold.

No, I thought I accidentally hijacked the thread and it closed.

I am still curious about other people's ideas about how the TSCC could get out of this mess.

It's a very good point that it's all tied together, a web of lies and deception. But when we see one important link, the Book of Abraham fall, somehow it kept going.

I thought that was it. The end. Finis. I was astounded that it continued until I facepalmed myself and remembered that it was founded on emotion, not facts.

So it appears there really is no way out other than attrition. In this situation, attrition is where old doctrines just fade away and are forgotten like the throat-slitting. Imagine--young people are denying it even happened. Maybe in the future there will be MMM deniers....


Anagrammy

The Book of Abraham didn't fall; the church successfully defended it. As I remember, the church was still using it when I was still a good enough member to go to and pay attention to lessons. They made no mention that the images of ancient Egyptian art in the PoGP were well-known to be completely unrelated to Abraham.

If they have a huge, modern-day revelation, it would implode the church. Everything's hooked into everything else. If JS isn't a prophet, the BoM, PoGP, and D&C are "the philosophies of men mingled with scripture". If the BoM is wrong, then JS isn't a prophet, but a con-man. If the PoGP and D&C are not revealed truth, then the temple is a lie. If JS isn't a prophet, then the leadership of the church has no legitimate authority, and if the BoM isn't literal truth, then the current leadership has been hearing lies from God, or not hearing anything at all.

All they can do is quietly sneak things out the back door and hope the membership doesn't remember well enough to know the difference.

Go the hard route --announce to all members that everything that Joseph Smith taught is being returned including Polygamy - Adam-God -Temple Blood Oaths - Negro and the priesthood etc --Whoever stays and lives everything is a hero.and is guaranteed Celestial Glory. Do you think the Religious Seal team training approach, would make you a happy Mormon ?

Going for quality not quantity

Conversley

Abandon all commandments and doctrines including Word of Widsdom, Temple attendance, give Women the Priesthood etc - Only one rule- you must keep paying your 10% because we need to spend more money.. Do you think banning ALL rules and commandments--but pay tithing - Guaranteed eternal happiness, would make you a happy Mormon ?

Going for quantity or numbers -not worried about the quality

JB

I agree 100% with JB and have always though the modern church will move in one of those two directions. It can't sustain itself in the long run in its current state. But given the fact that it is NOT a church but a soulless corporation where the bottom line is profits, it will go the way of #2 as we already have seen.

They just need to drop the "We're the same as everyone else" bullshit in my opinion. They need to celebrate their differences, not focus on the similarities. Do people join scientology because it's the same shit different brand? High doubtful - AND they earn lots of money off of people who join that church.

Call it a religion and make it analogous to what Islam is to Christianity (vice-versa as well as for Judaism), and just be like "we're awesome."

This way, they wouldn't have any of the problems of Christians pulling lines out of the Bible to prove that the LDS religion is false, and they could literally re-write the Bible to serve their own purposes.

This would have the downside of a temporary drop in membership, as mormons would no longer be able to say they fit in, but eventually the numbers would climb again because people seek religion when it comes knocking and they could spin it as the "true alternative" to christianity, saying that Christians, through mis-translations of the Bible (etc etc) have fallen astray since the times of Abraham/Isaac/etc and that they have brought a new restored gospel through the modern day prophet (monson currently, but whomever it is at the time), that goes well with the BoM and PoGP et al. This way they could also get rid of the inconsistencies between the Bible and the BoM.

Again, this would have a relatively short-term effect of a decrease in membership, but the numbers would go up again after 10 years or so, given that people have extremely short-term memory.

In the mean time, you recruit people from Africa and India to join (during those ten years), as well as other relatively impoverished places, in the hopes that you can somewhat subsidize the loss in membership. The impoverished people would also be more willing to give up 10% of their income, seeing as they don't have much (if anything) to lose by doing it, and it's an odd phenomenon that people at the "bottom" like to give more than the people at the "top" (typically).

After this ten year (or so) period you continue recruiting like normal in america, south america, europe, etc, in the more civilized countries and hope that you snag a few wealthy people, much like the Scientologists have.

I think the missionary program has already changed its stance. My nephew has been on his mission only a few months. In the MTC, he was disappointed that there wasn't very much scripture study. The leaders came right out and said that the missionaries should avoid discussing "deep doctrine". My nephew admits to not knowing much about the gospel, and he still doesn't know much, but that's OK. Instead of going around preaching and answering questions, the missionaries offer to do yard work, house work, and other favors for people. It is all about emotional manipulation and fellowshipping.

I think this is going to be the trend. The Mormon cult can still rely on its greatest weapon: "The Family", and the emotional manipulation, threats, guilt and lies they have been using for generations. After all, its greatest source of new members is newborn infants. As long as birth-rates are up, and emotions run high, TSCC can live with a few bits of bad publicity here and there. The Truth never did matter to most Mormons, anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2011 01:01AM by forestpal.

They are rapidly becoming the chamelion church...

Ana

Honestly they have backed themselves into a corner. They just don't have answers to all the questions about both doctrine and history. I know when I started asking questions no one had answers for me, and everyone just pulled the faith card. That isn't going to work in a world where science is proving many of the sacred teachings to be false.

cease to exist...sell all the buildings...give all the money to the Salvation Army....they'll put it to good use...and just friggin' go away!!!!

You guys all have great points.

Regarding the Doctrine and Covenants, it is possible, with various sections, to say the D&C is a "living document" and is subject to interpretation and change, as the "Kingdom of God" grows; that the Lord directs his Church presently, and therefore the Doctrine and Covenants should not be a fixed scripture. They already teach this, but they could move the teaching to the next philosophical level.

They already say similar stuff about the Bible (this is how they justify the Old Testament).

I like the idea that they NOT try to look like mainstream Christians, but act like a new branch of Judaeo-Christianity.

They need to accept that there are all kinds of Mormons. There are LDS TBMs, FLDS, other polygamist sects, Community of Christ, ex-Mormons, Cultural Mormons...They need to embrace the fact that Mormonism isn't a religion, it's a small but real culture, at least in Utah/Idaho/Nevada/Arizona. They should embrace this, and not get all defensive about who claims to be Mormon.

I spent several months working as a contractor for the church. The one thing that stood out clearer than anything in that culture:

There is no feedback loop.

If you think about it, there can't be. Every idea is inspired so if anybody were to question the value of 50 thousand nearly identical member profiles on Mormon.org, their spirituality would be questioned. Rather than ask why 50 thousand nearly identical profiles on Mormon.org might be a bad idea, the program is simply pushed forward because the "brethren" are inspired. I saw this happen more than once and one time it involved several million dollars worth of new equipment. As an outsider I tried to question and point out the obvious. You can imagine how that went down.

To sum up, I don't think the problems with the church are PR problems. I think the problems with the church are related to ego and a complete lack of checks and balances.

Stunted.

Stunted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you think about it, there can't be. Every idea
> is inspired so if anybody were to question the
> value of 50 thousand nearly identical member
> profiles on Mormon.org, their spirituality would
> be questioned. Rather than ask why 50 thousand
> nearly identical profiles on Mormon.org might be a
> bad idea, the program is simply pushed forward
> because the "brethren" are inspired. I saw this
> happen more than once and one time it involved
> several million dollars worth of new equipment.
> As an outsider I tried to question and point out
> the obvious. You can imagine how that went down.
>
> Stunted.

That reminds me way too much of the plot of Atlas Shrugged. The same basic structure is present: You have bureaucrats who believe in their own ideas with religious fervor to the point where they won't listen to anyone who proposes something contrary to their philosophy. The end result is a disaster.

Being able to compare real-life events with Atlas Shrugged is rather unpleasant, sort of like learning that a horror-movie plot happened in the next neighborhood over.

Since when has God cared about being loved by the world? I think that is the problem. Why does the true church of Christ need to spin anything to make it look better?

Why would I want to give an organization I despise any suggestion for improvement? I want them to continue to shrink further into irrelevance. I want people I love to be set free from the shackles of their emotional manipulation and financial exploitation.

First of all, screw the members.

Oh, boo hoo. They want their racist, sexist, homophobic support system? Tough.

I would get rid of the teachings. Just dump all of them.

And I would convert the church buildings and temples into Houses of Awesome!

Each week would be "church service" where people could get together and hang out, relax, have a good time.

We'd keep certain parts of the temple in tact because you can't show awesome movies without screens and projectors. But get rid of the chairs.

Laz-y-boys!

These are only a few things I'd do if I were in charge.

I'd tell them to open a brothel in Wendover, but that's just me.

Ron

They could announce in general conference that the church is not true and never was. Have a sustaining vote with the top 15 and all of the seventies to endorse it.

Open up all of their archives for study by history departments in major universities in the US and throught the world. Assist historian researchers to fully expose the hoax called mormonism.

Tell all members and the world that the oranization of real estate and corporate holdings could be used to fund humanitarian causes. Put that to a sustaining vote with all members. And not a hand raising thing, paper ballots for everyone.

Restructure the entire church to a non-religious charitable organization for humanity.

1. Have missionaries actually help the community instead of tracting.
2.Allow a civil wedding before the sealing.
3.Stay out of politics unless the issue concerns human rights.
4.Stop all the silly rules that only serve to make Mormons seem different and Pahrisee-like.WofW, dress code etc.At least make them optional.
5.Make church services more meaningful and spoiritual and lose the three hour block.
6.Lose the stupid underwear.
7.Empahasize Jesus and his teachings and stop the JS and other prophet worship.
8.Get some young and moderate GAs.
9. Start emphasizing important things such as the Golden Rule and stop talking about tithing, temples, proper dress and all the other crap so dear to the Morg.
10. Stop demanding so much time and money of people and let people go to church in any word t hat they want.
11. Stop bad mouthing other churches.

First TSCC should forget about image. Quit managing image. Just shut the fuck up about yourself. Immediately cease all the image management media campaigns. Recede into the background in order to re-tool the church in earnest by instituting some fundamental changes designed to a) actually deliver real-world benefits to individual members, and b) actually deliver real-world Christianity to non-members.

First, return the "ward" to the members in the ward. Let families have their own baptisms and blessings if they wish in their own way on their own time. Let missionary families have real farewells and welcome home sacrament meetings. Let wards have more fun activities, road shows, parties, dinners, camp outs, youth programs, etc. Let the ward celebrate its own members life events. FULLY and GLADLY fund these things including things like Scouts.

Let members use the building facilities for their own family or other non-commercial purposes. Allow them to have wedding receptions or funerals or family reunions or dinners at no charge and with no preaching or proselyting required.

Actually act grateful to be able to provide such small services to people who are actually giving up their entire lives in unpaid service to the GD cult, and paying for it to boot.

Let wards have the funding and authority to reach out in christian service to the community in every reasonable way. No press releases or proselyting agendas allowed. Allow wards to create sustainable locally-focused on-going programs that actually help people, and not just bullshit three hour "appearances" of mormons at the soup kitchen. Decrease callings that do nothing but reinforce the cult teachings and increase callings that actually help people and sustain programs like this.

End the one year temple sealing punishment for civil weddings. Allow families to participate fully in civil weddings and then immediately allow a sealing the next day or anytime the couple wants.

End the requirement that members must go only to wards in a specific area depending on where they live. Let people go to wards where they feel welcome and comfortable and appreciated. Change the leadership of poorly attended wards or close them.

Change the focus and curriculum of instruction to focus on action=truth versus he current impossible dogmatic assertions. Define the church as true because it works in members and non-members lives. The mission statement should be: "As a church we focus on how to improve, assist, support, encourage and empathize with our fellow members and non-members. We love and support our fellowmen and our actions confirm the value and truth of our values and existence as an organization. It wouldn't matter if we could show every historical assertion to be iron-clad truth if our actions are not led by christian love and non-judgmental caring as a consequence."

Cease temple worthiness interviews immediately other than: Do you strive to live the gospel to the best of your ability? Are you willing to honor a commitment to hold the ideals of the temple sacred in your heart and in practice?

Cease the tithing extortion. EARN the appreciation of people by delivering actual benefits to members such that they feel happy and honored to be able to give of their substance.

Establish a ward budget and let people see how the money is spent. A substantial percentage could even be remitted to the COB as long as people felt like they had primary control over their local environment.

End the worthiness witch hunts among members and youth. Focus on and enlarge (magnify, in TSCC parlance) good works, rather than focusing on detecting bad works. If there must be a criteria for temple attendance, let it be the performance of good works and not the absence of bad works. Quit talking about sins and hell in abstinence and obedience terms, and start talking about actual service and support and acceptance in constructive pro-active terms.

In short: change the assertion "The Only True and Living Church" to "Truth is as Truth Does" and then let the chips fall.

(and with these suggestions I announce my campaign for prophet)

I love your "change the focus" ideas, but... if The Boyz actually let members do what they want and go to whatever ward they want, be baptised when they want, well, they may drop off into apostasy! We MUST keep their noses to the grindstone and on the hamster wheel,

callings-callings-callings-temple-temple-temple,

lest the blinders come off and they see the "real" world and how TSCC is all a lie! Can't have that, we would'nt get our MONEY!!

Signed,

The "We Get Perks" Boyz
Office of the Corporation of LD$, Inc.

I think fundamental change of this sort is their only hope at the end of the day.

They are being buried right now by their own hubris. They have no hope of out-flanking the truth and every hysterical cult-management reaction only makes things worse IMO.

LDS, Inc. has no fundamentally constructive and life-affirming leadership, programs, advise, teachings or organization.

No prophetic leadership or council on economic catastrophe, wars, political upheaval, human rights, or society.

It is more of a black-hole today than it has ever been.

Like I said, I can't see any evidence or imagine actual change ever happening.

The best thing the church could do to resolve its PR problem is get out of the religion/church business.

I have no intention of fixing their PR problems. Rather the opposite.

because I will answer your question directly at the end. But first, the last thing I want to see is you devote your considerable talents to figuring out a way to salvage TSCC. Shouldn’t you be saving Gotham City or Metropolis or finding a cure for cancer or some shit?

The second point is a thread I have been meaning to start for a while, but it dovetails into this one I hope. My biggest problem as a scout leader in New York City is that people see me supporting the national policy of the scouting. Of course our unit does not, nor does our chartering organization, which just sanctioned the matrimony of marriage among gay couples so our ministers can actually officiate said marriages.

But those who don’t know me, see only some adult in a boy scout uniform who stands for and supports the anti-gay bigotry foisted on us by – let’s face it – the marments.

When people ask me how can inner city scouting be saved, I use this analogy. BSA has a ferret hanging out its ass. BSA walks into the room, expects to be respected and expects people to be courteous enough to not mention the ferret hanging out its ass. In fact, BSA demands that people pay no attention to the ferret hanging out its ass.

And of course the ferret is the baggage and embarrassment of BSA’s longtime acquiescence to the shenanigans of the marments in scouting. So my answer to the question of what should scouting do to function in the 21st Century is to pull the ferret out of its ass. If you don’t want people to notice the ferret hanging out of your ass, stop walking around trying to appear normal while you’ve got a ferret hanging out of your ass. There is really only one solution to having a ferret hanging out of your ass.

So to get to your PR question, AG. What would an honest PR firm (stop the damn smirking) tell the COB boys? Dude, you’ve got a ferret hanging out of your ass. If you want to be accepted as normal, you will simply have to pull that damn ferret out of your ass. We’re sitting here, we can’t help but notice it, and we think you’re weird. Because you have a damn ferret hanging out of your ass.

So what should TSCC do? Obviously pull the ferret out of their ass. All of it. Admit it was all a damn fraud that everyone was born into and we’re wrong. Foundations sometimes choose to go out of business by spending down their endowment. They think they can do more good right now by spending 100% of their assets on a cause that matters now. Google the Aaron Diamond Foundation.

And that’s what TSCC should do to gain respectability. Go out of business. Disburse 100% of its assets to good causes and ride heroically into the golden sunset – sans ferret!

Good points, Scooter. I have no intention of helping them stay alive. To me, as I always say, I am here with lawn chairs and hot dogs and I am staying for the fireworks.

Nothing like the smell of hubris smoke wafting into the night sky. The whole mess is swirling down the drain.

They have gone meaner than Brigham Young and nothing is less attractive than the phoney-baloney storefront they are putting out there these days.

Before, you could understand people staying for the fun. Now they are gritting their teeth and waiting until Grandma dies.

Anagrammy

PS. Grab a six pack will you, I'm on my way to General Confabulation....

and this website, I say the exact same thing.

It's like having a front row seat at the French Revolution or the Protestant Reformation.

Someone's going down. And I got the scorecard, know all the players and a tub of popcorn in my lap.

It's cool because it's a historic event, and I get to witness it in real time. And unlike pro rassling, the bad guys in this match are actually bad guys.

I get to actually root and shit. Whoo hoo!

sitting on the Fence.

the Fence between 'normal' Christian vanilla faith, one that sticks to Christian values: Honesty, Kindness, etc. ...


and...


being peculiar.

externally, they're Not Admitting that this is an issue or bothers them AT ALL; it's lalalalala we can't hear you/see you.

I don't see how they could Possibly change; jackol is correct.

However, on the other hand, IF they c/would do as anon666 suggests: I think WE'D ALL be surprised HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD STAY!

If they 'put the right spin on it', they could say something like: we believe this is the right/best place for as many people as possible; for families, for parents & children, etc.

'Of Course' they'd have to modify their weird & wonderful cliches & sayings/'doctrines'. How they could do that, I have no idea.

just sayin'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2011 10:29PM by guynoirprivateeye.