Being raised a good, mormon girl, it was drilled into me to always do and say things that will please others. Even though I have left the church, I'm having a hard time getting rid of that part of my conditioning.
What did you do to overcome this nasty, terrible, Mormon trait?

I would politely suggest that the first thing is to realise that nearly all humans care what other people think of them. It's a natural human feeling.

Mormonism does, however, tend to accentuate a person's natural characteristics. If you are a bit of a control freak by nature, Mormonism will make you power hungry. If you are a bit of a worrier, Mormonism will make you scared to death.

I think you should just accept who you are but perhaps say 'no' a little bit more often.

+1

I see it as a matter of degree. We gain perspective by considering what others think, and in order to consider it, we need to care at least a little about what they think.

I think what Eliza Snow-job is referring to is how to maintain one's sense of self and self-worth while caring about what others think. As Mormons, we are taught that we must conform to certain behaviors which excludes certain mistakes all people make - like having and sometimes expressing emotions like anger, displeasure, etc. Mormons aren't allowed to be complete people for fear of offending others and when we fall short, we are somehow bad rather than just being human.

Mormons aren't allowed to have a bad day without also being a bad person.

There is nothing wrong with "being polite." But you will kill yourself emotionally trying to please everyone. Mormonism, like all cults, tends to make one suppress all legitimate feelings. It may seem a little trite, but in your case you may need to realize that some of your negative feelings about certain people are quite legitimate. Allow yourself to be angry on occasion.

When one realizes that self-esteem isn't the product of others' perceptions. It only is if you allow it. So, don't allow it.

Just sayin'...

Ron

I remember sitting through countless lectures and getting gummed stars on my forehead while others were berated -- all of this because mormons hammered kids with the idea that *they* MUST accept responsibility for what others were thinking.

"You're about to walk up to the stand in front of everyone to sing your primary song. We want all of the parents and church people to think you are worthy little children reflecting the Lord's gospel."

"Visitors will be in our school watching each child today. You must go through the day mindful of that fact."

"The HTers are in front of the house. Help collect the newspapers and the the Monopoly game you're playing. We don't want them telling everyone out house isn't clean and tidy."

"We're taking a bus trip to SLC where tourists will be watching us. If they like what they see, they might want to join the one true church. If you're a bad example, they might not want to be baptized. You don't want to be responsible for that. We want everyone to think we're the best youth in the nation."

"Everyone looks at mormons as examples. It's YOUR job to see that they follow a good example, not a bad one."

In truth it's up to the individual what they think and how they act. "Being an example" is way way overrated in the mormon church and culture. Normal non-mormons don't talk about it or put inordinate faith in that idea. Rather, they live their lives as more as they see fit with a nod toward what others think but not obsessing about it day and night.

We can recover from this thinking by remembering that we can only control our own thoughts, actions, and reactions. We must give others that same latitude.

Cheryl:

I was going to say "...when you get pissed off if someone orders you to bring a cassarole dish to some church function..."...but I didn't. :)

Ron

and self-respect. When you are comfortable with what you know and what you believe, you won't allow that point of view to be pushed aside in favor of what someone else thinks.

It's also okay if not everyone on this planet likes and respects you. In fact, it's even okay if they hate you. You can't please everyone, so you might as well please yourself.

I think the trick is figuring out who's opinion is valid and really matters to you. But understanding what you think and believe and having the ability to back those claims up satisfactorily will go a long way toward helping you believe in yourself.

when I left the church.

I was used to being a "good girl" [Notice the use of the word "girl". That's how I felt. I was 35]: an obedient, cooperative, non-wave-making, people pleaser.

When I left the church, I knew I couldn't be that girl anymore. People WERE going to be disappointed. People WERE going to think I did something bad. I was going to have to be "bad" in some people's eyes in order to be true to myself and reality.

After a while I got used to it. And it wasn't so bad after all. I started thinking for myself and stopped looking for approval because it wasn't going to come my way. I became stronger, more independently minded, more decisive, and started feeling like an adult woman instead of that "good girl".

It takes time to overcome conditioning. Expect that sometimes you'll fall back into old habits and have to reset your determination.

that helped me: When you are asked to do something and you feel the stress rising inside, STOP. Wait. And don't agree to do something unless it's an absolute "yes".


Everybody has finite emotional/physical/financial resources. You have to say "no" to some things so you can focus your energies on what you really want and believe in.

I thought the best part of her advice is the part where you stop and notice how you feel. For so many of us, saying "yes" is like a knee-jerk reflex, and we often regret it later.

OMG, your discribing me (or almost). Thanks so much. It helps me not to feel alone in what I went/and still are going through.

When I realized most of what others think is wrong. It is so easy to form an incorrect opinion with partial information. The fact so many people fail to realize this and go ahead forming incorrect opinions...proves even moreso how flawed people's thinking can be at times. Not everyone, but a lot of people haven't learned this.

So instead of worrying about it, I've learned to dismiss it. Some call me arrogant, I call it not wasting my time. I can ALWAYS find something better to do than worry about what others think.

If you rid yourself of caring about what others feel/think, you'll probably become either a recluse or a narcissist.

I suggest that instead, you find other people that think and care about what you do, and stick around them far more than the people that have different agendas. Eventually, you'll acquire self-confidence and be able to tolerate other people without feeling inferior or insecure.

The morg lays a lot of guilt on us to control us. It's hard to get out from that suddenly. It will take time. For now, hang out with tolerant, like-minded people.

by only caring about what the people you respect think. That narrowed the field for me. I've always felt that if you do your very best, then if people don't like it - tough. Not caring what people think isn't a reason to slack off. It seems like as Mormons, we equate not caring what people think with wanting to sin. That isn't true. You can do your best and not please all the people all the time. So stop worrying about what people think when they are people who don't matter - when they are people who you don't respect.

Also, remember that sometimes shallow, narrow people only respect those who are exactly like them. So if they approve of you, it's probably an insult. Remember no one on their deathbed wishes they'd impressed more strangers. If they don't like you or approve of you, who cares? What can they do to you? If you have to worry about someone, make it your boss, your significant other, your best friend. People you look up to. People who can help you in life. Don't spin your wheels trying to impress insignificant people who really aren't paying attention - or worse, are only paying attention to you to catch you doing something wrong so they can build their own self-esteem. They are not worth it.

+1

For me, I came to the realization that what people think of my is ether true or it's not. If it's true, I accept it, whether it's positive or negative. If it's not true, I generally don't care unless it affects my life negatively.

There will always be people that hate on others for shallow reasons. Sometimes you need to shrug your sholders and laugh at that behaviour.

accused me of stealing money from my mother after she became demented. This was very hurtful for me because I always thought she appreciated all the work I had done--and she had done nothing to help our Mom. She sent for the banking records and went through everything line by line. There was nothing stolen, nothing amiss at all. Did she apologize? No!

About two years later I bought a house. She found out about it and told a relative that I must have been that money I stole from our mother without leaving a trace.

I realized people believe what they WANT to believe about you REGARDLESS of the facts!!!

My sister needed to feel like I was the "bad sheep" like she joked about all those years. Without my being the bad one (divorced, left Catholicism and became Mormon, had a child out of wedlock), she could not feel good!This was huge to me and was the start to a new perspective freeing me from being a people-pleaser.

Just like Mormons believe the Book of Mormon because they want to, people that genuinely like you will overlook your faults and give you the benefit of the doubt. People that don't want to believe anything good about you (for their OWN reasons), nothing you do will be good enough.

See? You're off the hook!


Anagrammy

...and even amazing liars get caught eventually. Just look at Joseph Smith!

and I said you have to get to a point where you just don't care--and my point came when I went through my separation. I hate to say I became hardened to what people thought of me, but I did.

I also stated before that my ex had some friends who told him that if you act like you are ashamed to be gay, people will treat you that way. Be proud.

There are very few people I care what they think about me--my kids are the two most significant. I wish it wasn't so . . . but I really value their opinion. They are both 25 right now and both are trying to develop their individuality. It has been a tough road for me and them as we became a little team of survivors during the worst years. I cared what my parents thought of me. I care what one brother thinks of me (he is like my son). I don't even worry too much about what my boyfriend thinks of me--as he seems to like me just fine.

The more attitude I have of "who cares"--people treat me better. It did take a long time and a lot of hard knocks to get to this point.

Oh--I was going to say when my ex left--he was the well liked one as he is extremely social and knows how to play the mormon game (we live in a veyr mormon area in Utah)--and I wanted to stand on the roof and shout "It wasn't my fault." Now I just live my life and my mormon neighbors like me and my heathen ways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2011 11:33AM by cl2.

I think that most people struggle with this at some point in their lives but I think that Mormonism can make people extra susceptible to this.

Mormonism has this "one size fits all"/collective community, with strong negative reinforcement when one doesn't appear to fit in perfectly with the rest. To further reinforce this, you have regularly scheduled interviews with probing personal questions, again to ensure conformity and prevent individual thinking.

To top it off, you're told over and over again that you should devote your entire life to the church and to the well-being of other members, as mounds of guilt are dropped on your head, over and over, because we're never told that we're doing enough. There's always more.

I physically left the church almost a decade ago, but there are echoes of that trying to please others thing that trips me up still sometimes. I'm getting more and more comfortable being me, an individual, but it's been a slow-go.

All the best to you in your recovery,
Greg

I'm going through the same thing. I have yet to completely resign from the church for exactly this reason. I'm too worried about the repricousions from friends and family. I've heard the way soem of them badmouth and gossip about others that have left the church and I have no reason to believe that they would suddenly put the gloves back on for me. Part of me wants to just say I don't care what they think but I do love these people and I know that many of them would take it personally.

you'll be surprised how little you care about what people think.

I am a gay atheist.

Some people hate me simply because I am gay. I don't have to do anything, just being gay is enough. Even if they have never met me, know nothing else about me or anything I have done, as long as they know I am gay they will hate me.

The same goes for being atheist.

So, people are going to judge you one way or the other no matter who you are or what you do. You will never be able to please everyone.

Find one thing to be disagreeable about, one way to not please others. Once you get comfortable with that, pick something else. Start small and work up to bigger things.

A good start might be to not please us. ;)

For me this is easy.

I consider the character of the person saying something about me as either valid or invalid.

Every Mormon I spoke to me lied to me (except maybe 2). Therefore, if any tbm says anything about me I consider it nonsense and invalid and never give it another thought.

If someone I care about says something about me I decide if it is a valid statement if so I learn from it. If it is not valid,
I figure they just had a bad day. I talk it out so there are no bad feelings.

I have learned that if I do not have trust in myself I will be hurt by others, but if I know who I am and do not outwardly make unkind or cruel actions, I have little to worry about.

hope this helps

relized that I and everyone in my family had a serious religion addictiion. ironically.....went to Alanon. Learned how to break the addiction(s) and how to deal with all the others who won't or don't want to. the best free counseling ever! life changing.

Cultivate a bad reputation and enjoy it. I do. I was so damn goody goody (except for that once) that in the end I found myself boring. It's way better to have people think you are interesting and a little exotic than to have them approve. Jump through your own hoops, never anybody else's.

Ever see a best seller about somebody that always did everything right? They're only good if you need something to put you to sleep.

The cool part is that you can be a "bad ass" without doing anything that's actually destructive, immoral, or dangerous.