I think that the article lays out her reasons for conversion in a straightforward manner. Simply put, on balance, Mormonism works for her. Or at least, it's working right now. She seems to be traveling in the same east coast Mormon intellectual circles as Richard Bushman.
I found this passage to be of interest --
“Jana has been well-received as a teacher and speaker,” Smith says. “She has more pastoral background than most [Mormon] bishops or lay leaders.”
A Princeton Theological Seminary alum? I should say so.
That bit made me think of a UU service I sat in on after I left the church. It was so DEEP! It made me realize how superficial the Mormon "unpaid laity" is.
Lessee, spent some time near Joseph Smith's birthplace in Sharon, Vermont?
New England strain of "Jerusalem Syndrome"?
Sister missionary says, "“You have no right to judge our religion until you’ve read the whole book."
Man if she'd said that to me I would've answered bullshit so fast the old gal would've wound up with a wedgie in her g's...
This is a woman who's been "seeking something," probably more "social than theological," and note that her husband is an Episcopalian.... There's probably a "deep gender dynamic" there as well, and I would guess there are competitive elements in her marriage on that score...
She is probably codependent-there was alcoholism and drug use in her family.
She wanted to be a minister but then joined a cult that would forbid her from ever being a minister.
She joined a cult that exed women and men for thinking and questioning authority.
She thinks that the mormon eve is better than the christian eve but women in the mormon faith are not important at all.
The fact that she was window shopping for a religion and switched at will, it seems, shows that she was looking for some triggers.
She wanted someone who would tell her what to do and a life style that did not included drugs and alcohol so that her married life did not replicate her birth family.
I agree with "Quoth the Raven." I would also add that she wanted to be a leader but found herself in the Episcopal/Presbyterian/Generic Protestant religions to be just another member.
Since she is eclectic denominationally, you'd think she would choose the good-as-any-other denomination her husband is attending, so they could worship together.
So that tells you the priority. Ministers are a dime a dozen in Protestantism, but a minister-trainee with a background in many different religions is a unique niche for her. She has more attention, is selling her books, is reaping great rewards of attention and money writing to the LDS crowd. They are starving for an "authorized" peek into the world of other religions.
I can speak with experience on this, having once occupied that niche myself, the only difference being I started my newspaper column exposing people to the teachings of other religions AS AN EX-MORMON. I can tell you the way I was treated was very different from her experience--and I didn't say anything ex-Mormon, just let some other religions have a chance to speak for themselves in a Mormon-dominated culture.
So, my take is that being a big frog in a small pond as a token "free-speaking" woman is better than being just another woman minister in mainstream Christendom.
No pathology at all. Just a woman searching for what works for her re: religion. She has a varied background, and has found what she wants to participate in. I have no problem with it. She has the freedom to choose her religion and rely on any of the religions she finds that appeal to her, just like the rest of us. I'm passionate about religious freedom of choice. She has chose what she wants for herself, which is her right. That is not pathology. That's our American Freedom at work.
SusieQ#1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm passionate about religious freedom of choice. > She has chose what she wants for herself, which is > her right. > That is not pathology. That's our American Freedom > at work.
Yeah, Heaven's Gate folks had the right to choose their religion and take themselves out of the gene pool (which was a good thing).
Often choosing a religion is all about pathology. You have the right to choose your own poison. No one is stopping anyone but that does not mean it is a healthy choice.
silverlightx Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Religion is not equivalent to mental illness, no > matter how many times atheists repeat it.
I have no problem with religion. However, people who seek out religions often do so with the same thought process that makes them seek out unhealthy relationships. Women who go from one abusive relationship to the next. People who "seek" religion are often looking for that same fix.
silverlightx Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Religion is not equivalent to mental illness, no > matter how many times atheists repeat it.
It is a highly unfair judgment to call all religion some kind of mental illness. That's so absurd, I'm shocked that people who understand the right of religious freedom in this country would say something so preposterous! Most people have some religious type leaning. Most people in the world believe in a deity, many in a savior. That is not mental illness. To call it mental illness sounds like it comes from a lot of hate.
She doesn't strike me as pathological, but she doesn't strike me as TBM either. If she was, I'd think she'd either be divorced or have converted her husband by now.
and often don't makes sense to others. That isn't necessarily pathological. While I have myself pointed out elements of Mormonism that injure well-being, I don't think becoming Mormon in itself is a sign of pathology.
The point in the story that raised the biggest question for me is how she could stay with the church after learning of the leadership's treatment of the September Six and getting an idea of how the church treats women who think and speak up. It's possible that had she not yet joined when it happened she would have declined to become a member. However, many people, once they make a commitment, continue with it even if there are indications later maybe it wasn't a good idea.
I would also be curious about how she went so far in her training as a woman minister--a leader--to then submit to this patriarchal organization. I wonder if something in her wanted the experience of submission? Perhaps for her submitting to the church leadership and community was a concrete experience of submitting to God. I'm just guessing, but the story promises to be much more interesting than hanging some labels of pathology on her.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2011 08:10PM by robertb.
...Jana is part of the circle of friends I have kept since departing the morg. They are the ONLY friends in the morg that have been supportive of my departure while so many others in the moridor have shunned me.
The woman referenced in the article I count as one of my best friends; then, and now. She also spoke at Bushman's 90th birthday celebration (one of the select few). We're talking massively intelligent mo-women who are also amazingly non-judgmental.
I'm "tototoot" in the comments section. And yes, I also know Peggy from her husband, Mike.
I was friends with a church member and his wife who were a lot older than me. Don was more Buddhist than Mormon and I could never understand why he stayed with the church, even while I was a member. But he was understanding and caring and I always felt better and more peaceful after visiting with him. I once saw him hug and hold a schizophrenic member of our branch and soothe him. It was amazing to see.
Steve Benson, I don't come on this board too much, well, okay I rarely head onto this board anymore, I usually hang out at the competition postmo.org :) but when I landed on this board by accident back in '04 your comments about atheism were the most important things that caused me to question my entire belief system. After all this time I thought I should head over here and thank you. So here I am, thanking you Steve, with all my heart! thank you for being a board educator, armchair psychologist, or whatever else one wants to call it. initially your words were harsh to me as you were debating religion with me in a way that I'd never before considered.
Thank you.
Without your education, (there were others too, like Shweizerkind, but I specifically remember you because you use your own name and also because you were the most harsh which turned out to be tough love and most needed to drum through my thick brainwashed skull) I wouldn't have thrown away all the beliefs I had gathered up around me to make me feel safe and warm if it hadn't been for you and some other posters on this board. You specifically, and I recall the conversations specifically, whittled away at my old thoughts so that eventually I could understand what you were talking about. there are not enough thank you's. What a wonderful service you did for me.
I don't doubt that she is a great friend ,but there is something in her belfrey that is loose.
To join an organziation just after is had exed those who questioned authority, is not logical. Well if you value independent thought.
It is one thing to grow up brainwashed that north america has a thriving biblical society, but another thing to fall for such tall tales when one has advanced degrees.
She thinks Joe is old testament prophet who suffered, but I don't see the suffereing part as he was sexually abusing minors and forcing women into sexualy submission.
Quoth the Raven "Nevermo" Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't doubt that she is a great friend ,but > there is something in her belfrey that is loose. > > To join an organziation just after is had exed > those who questioned authority, is not logical. > Well if you value independent thought. > > It is one thing to grow up brainwashed that north > america has a thriving biblical society, but > another thing to fall for such tall tales when one > has advanced degrees. > > She thinks Joe is old testament prophet who > suffered, but I don't see the suffereing part as > he was sexually abusing minors and forcing women > into sexualy submission. > > Does not compute.
Joe was a fornicating man trying to get away with adultery in a location that would have seen the locals reprimanded him for it. As it was the fear of repercussion caused him to go underground with it. The fact that this woman doesn't understand that is remarkably telling as to her condition.
...I asked her how she could still believe since she knows the history inside and out. She said she is trying, with the rest of the intellectual mo gang, to change status quo in the morg from the inside.
Personally, I think they will be exed at some point for their outspokenness about women's rights, change in the p-hood, and honesty about the real history of the morg. But then again, maybe they won't be kicked out since the morg might not want to get rid of any intellectuals anymore like they did with the September Six.
I don't see the attraction, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with her. I predict she won't last long unless she is in a very liberal ward and learns to keep her radical opinions to herself. I'll bet she iether leaves or gets exed.
I'm sympathetic to the effort, and if I had known more about the NOM community a few years ago I even might have joined up. But it seems like a futile effort. Like Bona Dea, I also predict a resignation letter or excommunication in her future.
toto Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ...I asked her how she could still believe since > she knows the history inside and out. She said she > is trying, with the rest of the intellectual mo > gang, to change status quo in the morg from the > inside.
toto Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ...I asked her how she could still believe since > she knows the history inside and out. She said she > is trying, with the rest of the intellectual mo > gang, to change status quo in the morg from the > inside. >
why bother to change something so fundamentally flawed? She would do better to go back to being a presbyterian and just practice mainstream christianity. Mo was started as a fraud, no amount of "changing" from the inside will change that. Can't change a turd into a diamond.
So now she is going to be a crusader to make a wrong a right? sheesh, just keeps getting stranger and stranger.......does not compute.