I have had an email communication, with occasional phone calls (I call him at work) with an old boyfriend for the past 12 years. He was the love of my life, I never had a relationship that was close to it. We were together from when we were 20 to 23. The last 10 months of the relationship was hell. I was away for 8 months studying overseas and we both were involved with another person. It was easy for me to end it with my overseas bf, because I left the guy behind in England. It was not so easy for my bf (I will call him Jeff) because the girl was still there. Jeff said that they would be friends but cheated on her with me and then lied about it. Although every instinct told me he was lying, he convinced me that he had not cheated. Months later I found a letter from her that confirmed that he had sex with her.

The worst thing was that a group of mutual friends knew the truth and there I was believing that he had not cheated. He went back and forth between who he wanted, me or her, eventually I ended it because it was just emotionally abusive. He moved in with her the month after he moved out of our apartment. They were together for a few years. Eventually she found someone else and left him. As he told me, he never bonded with her the way she wanted him to. She thought that if I was out of the picture that the two of them would live happily ever after and that he would forget about me. I retreated to the friends I had before we started dating and dropped anyone who was a mutual friend. Either you sided with me, or I moved on. I didn’t want to see the two of them at mutual friends’ houses, or hear about them. It was the best thing for me to have done and I started dating someone a few months later.

He got married about 20 years ago and although I think that he has a very good companionable marriage (no kids, she never wanted any and he was ambivalent at best), I think that, like me, it was never the same with anyone else. We hid nothing about ourselves from the other (well until I left to study abroad), and we are both creative with an eclectic sense of humor. It was like we shared each other’s minds. The sex was mind blowing. About ten years ago, his emails (at that time we didn’t talk on the phone, which we do now maybe once every other month) starting having a lot of “remember when” in them. Something that I stayed away from. I felt that the emails became too important to us and no longer seemed so casual. I backed away from him and our emails became very occasional.

We email occasionally, and I call him at work occasionally. I am very good at hearing the nuances in people’s voices. It is magnified when on the phone because you don’t have anything visual to distract from the voice. I can hear that he is slightly nervous when I identify myself. We spoke a few days ago and we ended up in philosophical discussion about god and ghosts (since I have one in my house, he does not believe in them). When we dated I was an atheist sort of leaning to a deist, and he was raised fundy Baptist and although he seldom went to church he had very strong religious beliefs. He was such a non conformist that you would never think that he was religious. When we dated, he was worried that we would not be together in heaven because I was not a Christian (shades of the old eternal family?). We spoke for an hour and I told him that I should let him get back to work. He had that nervous tone in voice and said that he hoped everything in my life went well and then he said something about his love to my sister and my niece, which was just so out of character for our conversations. We don't use the word love. He concluded with saying that he hoped we spoke again soon.

I am just perplexed. I do want his attention and I enjoy talking to him but I don’t want this to get complicated. I don’t want this to be an emotional affair. I have dreams in which we have been having an affair and when I wake up the emotions are so real that I feel guilty and believe it is true. In some of the dreams he ends the affair and I wake up both feeling guilty and being upset that it has ended. It takes me a while to wake to reality and to realize it was all a dream. We broke up nearly thirty years ago but there is something that won't let go.

Before he started dating his wife, I was divorced and had just started dating a man. We met and I could tell that he wanted to have a serious talk about the two of us, about us getting back together, but I kept turning the conversation to something lighter. I didn’t want to get back together with him, although I liked him. In the end, I felt suffocated by him. He didn’t want me to study abroad (and leave him) even though it was a once in lifetime opportunity for me. If the situation has been reversed I would not have wanted him to turn down such an opportunity to stay with me. I would have wanted what was best for him.

I am conflicted as how to go forward.

I had an intense relationship.

This was my first serious relationship (the one before that was a love affair, but not serious) and I wanted to marry her but she turned down my proposal. We continued seeing each other for several years.

It was an on and off relationship, complicated by several factors. I knew there were other men in her life and woman too, but what finished it for me was that I felt she was toying with me, stringing me along. I asked for some commitment from her (not unreasonable as we'd been going out for 6 years) but she wrote me a Dear John letter and that was that.

Years later she contacted me through a mutual acquaintance asking if we could start going out again. I nearly said yes, but knew almost instantly that we'd likely go through the same crap again.

That was about 20/30 years ago. Sometimes I think perhaps I should have, but in my heart-of-hearts, I am glad I did not.

Just my tuppence worth...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 08:26PM by matt.

...if it hadn't been for the 8-month separation you two would have lived happily ever after with each other? You might just be yearning for a past state of happiness that one or both of you can't actually deliver now.

I have occasional dreams where I'm back with my ex even though I know it would never work out, and even though she's a lesbian. We're close friends. We visit each other. We've done holidays together. But that's all it can be. The past is gone.

It's complicated to maintain a friendship with an involved/married guy. My solution has been to increase the distance as needed. Calling once a month may be too much for both him and yourself. You might consider decreasing that for now to 3-4 times a year.

Whoa.

You said something insightful in your story: "he was emotionally abusive." And he cheated. And lied. I'm attracted sometimes to those who wouldn't be the best for me just because there's a sexual attraction. Sex was great for you both, but that was it.

You can't go back but then again, do you really want to?

As for my story: we were together, on and off, through childhood into adulthood. He would always leave me and then come back only to ask me to marry him when we were 22 when we had been away from each other for a few years (I was "finally" a morgbot to him and he'd wished to marry me since we were kids). I declined because I didn't like the back and forth and back and forth. I was tired of being a yo-yo.

Three years later he was married and his wife was pregnant and we bumped into each other. He asked me to come to dinner which was one of the strangest and oddest experience of my life. After his wife left the main room to finish something in the kitchen, he sat down next to me on the couch and asked, "What happened when I asked you to marry me?" I. Was. Blown. Away. I replayed the scene from three years prior and he still asked, "But why didn't you say, yes?" Um. Gee. How weird do you want to be? Your wife is pregnant in the other freaking room!

I haven't seen him since then and it's been over twenty years - my choice. I look on our time together as odd, as well as somewhat of a mix of puppy love and creepiness.

I mourned over my lost love for years. He's in a horrible marriage emotionally, but stays for the other perks.

I know exactly how painful this is for you. But you are losing the time where you could be meeting other single men. It's a matter of coming to grips with the past, and letting go, which is very difficult. One thing I remember that they mentioned in the book is that lost young loves are very hard to get over, because the high hormonal levels at the time create a very intense bond. Just writing about my lost love takes me back again. Wish I could talk to you in person. Hugs

"Lost Loves" If you don't mind, who's the author?

Sorcha Wrote:
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> "Lost Loves" If you don't mind, who's the author?


Lost & Found Lovers: Facts and Fantasies of Rekindled Romances
by Nancy Kalish Ph.D. .


Is this what you mean?

If I had not left and studied overseas, I think it would have ended anyways. He was mad that I left him and I think he got back at me with the being involved with the other woman. It was the whole emotional up and down that emotionaly abusive, not necessarily like he deliberately was emotionally abusive. And he was honestly conflicted about the other woman, who also did the roller coaster of emotions on him..."I can't bear to be just friend with you so I can't see you", then the next week, "I know we can be good friends and I don't want to lose your friendship". It was just torture. He had sex with her once after I got back. I was at my parent's for the weekend and they were going out as "just friends".

It it is hard to have a relationship "until my girlfriend gets back in town" and then try and be friends. She told him that if they were together that they could have an open relationship and that he could see other women if he wanted (as opposed to me who didn't want that). I think that was just a snare to catch him because it was not that way, of course, once they moved in together.

Bottom line was we were too young and it was too intense and it is hard to grow up emotionally in that kind of relationship. I also felt suffocated with his view of religion and his concern about being in heaven together.

But, I still feel that I could tell him anything and he would not judge me, and that he would truly support me and wish me the best.

My sister once said that when you were around the two of us you knew you were in the presence of a great love. Just not one that could work out long term. Whatever we had it was something unique and powerful and it has not left either one of us.

I like posts like yours, in which the poster knows the answer to the question. You seem mature, and in control of your thoughts, which you put in writing so well. You know yourself.

"We met and I could tell that he wanted to have a serious talk about the two of us, about us getting back together, but I kept turning the conversation to something lighter. I didn’t want to get back together with him, although I liked him. In the end, I felt suffocated by him. He didn’t want me to study abroad (and leave him) even though it was a once in lifetime opportunity for me. If the situation has been reversed I would not have wanted him to turn down such an opportunity to stay with me. I would have wanted what was best for him."

IMO, you would do the same thing again, if he met with you tonight. You might be feeling particularly lonely these days. I'm not sure, but you seem to be divorced, without a partner, is that right? Maybe you don't have children living with you. Maybe you live away from your family, and most of your friends are married. Maybe it is just that same old wishful nostalgia that all of us get from time to time. Your old boyfriend probably has not changed. Sorry, but experience has taught me, "once a cheater, always a cheater." I'm sure your attention to him gives him a huge ego boost, and something to fantasize about, and he probably would like to keep this going.

You are level-headed, to want to avoid an emotional affair. Something like that could be a huge road-block to future happiness. In dating, sometimes you need to have an empty space in your life, in order for someone to come along and fill it. It would be hard for a real man to measure up to your fantasy of the past with your old boyfriend, back in the good old days when you were young, and things were fairly uncomplicated. If things didn't work out between you then--how could it ever work out in this complicated world, of wife and children, and you being a mature adult who is fed up with lies and game-playing?

What a lovely story, though! I loved reading it. Even though it is romantic, and all, I would keep this person only as a Christmas card pal, and address it to Mr. and Mrs. Old Boyfriend.

I won't go into my own story, but that is how I handle my situation, and my old long-lost soulmate tried to come back to me a few times. But I loved him, and I loved myself, and I felt that our lives were great as things stood. He has been married to the same woman for many years, and his children and grandchildren live in his neighborhood (our old neighborhood) and go to our old schools, and he is happy, and famous. I read his articles and watch his interviews, and daydream, just for fun--but the minute it gets into the "would-have, could-have, should have" self-pitying mode, I force myself back into the real world of the present. I'm not married, but I have people in my life right now that I love more, so I concentrate on them.

BTW, it takes me about three hours to write my Christmas letter to him! I wait until a blizzard snows me in, I pour a cup of coffee, light candles, and play the old songs. Sometimes it is a lovely indulgence to just wallow in it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 09:56PM by forestpal.

It reminds me of some of the people I miss in my own life.

However, at the end, I agree with forestpal. You know what to do. The best thing to do would be to keep some distance between the two of you.

I just rememberd another of the religious issues, he didn't believe in xmas, thought it was all pagan ritual and took away from the "real" meaning of xmas. I love xmas and xmas trees. I put up an xmas tree in our apartment and I remember he burned the tree for firewood after I took it down (not good for the chimney, to burn green sappy wood). I was not willing to give my xmas for his beliefs. Or to be aggravated by him for celebrating xmas.

I do remember our fist kiss like it was yesterday. He had given me a backrub (we hung out with the same group of friends and had given backrubs many times) and we were on the floor on my living room. I was drifting in and out of sleep and I opened my eyes and I could see his heartbeat in the artery in his neck, going fast. I might have been sleepy but he was not. I reached over and kissed him and that was all it took.

forstpal--I understand the issue of not filling up emotional space with a fantasy, and I don't think I am danger of doing that. After it ended I knew that it could not have worked out, which is why I didn't want to get back together when I had the chance. I think his marriage lacks the creative connection that we had and that it makes him feel lonely. His wife is from the midwest and is fairly conservative. I remember him writing that she found the movie "Quills" not to her taste, and I thought it was a fantastic movie. But it is a movie about extremes.

I had this problem. took me years to realize it was an addiction.

When i ran into him years later, it came back like a bad drug habit. Keep the sweet memories. Don't ruin them with reality.

"Don't ruin [memories] with reality." is great advice!

My ex husband, and an old high school boyfriend--both married at the time--tried to rekindle old romantic feelings with me. Now, everyone has a right to their personal morality, but I happen to be a prude with my own. I didn't let my emotions run away with me, because I kept thinking that they were trying to cheat on their wives. Even if it was with me--for whatever reason--they were still lying, and trying to cheat on their wives! This really turned me off to them.

I did have an emotional affair with a neighbor, with whom I ran a volunteer organization. I know for a fact that his marriage was not a happy one, because I knew his wife, too. She was really out there, and into crystals and horoscopes, and younger men. I truly loved this man, and he was like a father to my children. When I got divorced, and moved away, he wanted to hook up with me, but I told him that nothing could happen--ever--as long as he was still married. He said he loved me, but he is still with his wife. That was 14 years ago. LOL, I send them both a Christmas card.

Men like to set up a new relationship in advance, before getting out of an old one. Perhaps your boyfriend is headed for divorce, but my advice is for you to let him do all that on his own. You can check him out again when he is free.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 11:03PM by motherwhoknows.

motherwhoknows Wrote:
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> Men like to set up a new relationship in advance,
> before getting out of an old one.

From what I have seen that statement is fairly accurate, but it's true for a lot of women as well.

Even taken together, not exactly an invitation to the no-tell motel. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2011 12:20AM by munchybotaz.

Sometimes when our present life is not what we want it to be, we think of the "what might have beens" with those we loved intensely at one time.

I have found, personally, that it's easier to maintain a close freindship with a man when I am also freinds with his wife. (I've developed some wonderful gal pal freindships doing this.) It seems--more proper I suppose to do it this way.

I had an old love call me out the blue a few years ago. I was at low point in my marriage and I got the feeling my old love was as well. I was polite and freindly, and enjoyed catching up on our lives, marriages, kids, etc. until he said, "So you're happy then . . " How condescending! I wanted to shout into the phone: "I'm 45--it was over 23 years ago that you dropped me for the person you married. I'm SO over you."

I wasn't about to talk to him about my marriage, which wasn't doing well at the time; I wasn't about to open a door that might have made my life more complicated.

Messing with someone else's marriage or your own--I don't think is worth it.

I'm wiped out after working a shift, so I can't read what everyone else has said, but I see that as significant.

In seeing that "the last 10 months were hell" and I'm reminded of "toxic dances" I've been involved in; whatever the price you have to pay to get out and stay out of those is worth it (and it was a lot in my case). The "chemistry" in those relationship is incredibly powerful and yet ultimately toxic...

I wish you well, and from your posts, I see you're familiar with the family-of-origin stuff that gives rise to these dyanmics. Keep doing the work...

And I e-mailed you per your request as well...

SLC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2011 04:20AM by SL Cabbie.

What if you don't initiate contact for a while?
Don't email him, wait to see if he contacts you.
Don't call him at work, see if he dials your number.

Find out if the "yearning" is mutual.

Then decide if you really want to help him break up his marriage and re-open the can of works you put away so many years ago.

He is married right? Until he tells you, he is unhappy in his marriage you have no right to interfere with this emotional tie. You could just ask. And even if he would tell you his marriage is not good he must separate before he gets involved with you. Don't be the reason a marriage breaks up.

It happens all too often and it is usually because the person leaving the marriage is weak and not able to talk to their spouse. They just bolt. That is not good. Speaking to your spouse about WHY you feel unfulfilled is not only fair but it is required since you took your marriage vows to remain faithful through the good and the bad. Hope I don't sound too mean but I really am one who dislikes anyone interfering in a marriage. The one who wants out should be the active person here, NOT you. It is all up to him.

In my case, my longtime friend had no intention of leaving his wife, and I had no intention of interfering with his marriage or family life. That's why I put increased distance between us whenever needed to maintain those objectives.

But...I knew things about him that his wife never knew. Important things. Personal issues she *should* have known about but never thought to investigate or ask about. As far as I was concerned she had her head in the sand. These details went back to a time before they were engaged. I didn't consider it my business to tell her. I kept my fingers crossed for both of them. Eventually of course, it all blew up in his face, but not due to anything I did or did not do. Just some personal habits of his that eventually tripped him up.

I didn't feel especially sorry for her. She had been willfully ignorant about him. She got a lot out of that marriage, probably as much as any woman could have gotten out of him -- wonderful companionship. children, and prosperity. She's doing just fine right now.

She told me that it is ok to have that emotional tie...a long, long time ago. Mom's first love was killed in war. She showed me his grave. She has been married 65 years to my Father.

My first love and I met at 14. I believe in love at first sight, obviously. It happened to me. He was my first date, first kiss, first many things;) We were children, and we spent all of our free time together, walked to school together, and it was beautiful.

My parents decided we were too young to be that serious at about the two year mark. We had to date others, and still could date each other, but not "go steady". Like fools, we did that. The love did not end, and we dated less, but another 4 years. He and I had a date, but I got a phone call instead. He called to tell me he had to marry a girl he dated a few times---months prior, and she was pregnant. I. Was. Devasted. He was in tears. I will not go into all of the emotional stuff in his family where his Dad wanted an abortion, his Mom wanted him to marry this teen girl when he was 18 (like THAT would ever work). He was at University, wound up getting to his Jr. year and had to quit when she became pregnant with their 2nd (now his teen wife was pregnant again, and 17).

I went into a serious depression, dropped out of school a couple of times, returning to finally graduate high school. It was hell. I wanted out of my house to live an adult life, and the only way possible in a home where higher education for a woman was not even discussed as a possiblity, I decided to marry the first guy that asked me, since no one could be my first love. And I did.

Both his and my marriage ended before we were out of our 20's. Both of us had a couple of kiddo's. We never quit talking and seeing each other as "friends". The chemistry was always there, and we both knew it, but did not walk outside of our vows as married persons. When we divorced, he invited me to his farm to spend time with him. It was glorious. I wanted to marry him, but he was burned out on responsiblity and the marriage he had was not an example of doing it again. So we dated in our 30's. And we loved each other with no future plans to marry. It was not exclusive, but it was intense.

We both moved on to other relationships, and both married other people a few years later. We still talked, always and forever had a friendship that had a spark. We held each other's history.

After I was blindsided in my last marriage of 15 years, and now in my 50's, and after multiple times of separation from a man who lived a double life, my Ex finally leveled the final blow of our 5 year off and on room mate marriage on paper we never put back together. I had the means and looking for my own home to purchase, knowing divorce was eminent. My Ex was no more interested in being married to me, than I was to him. We were living as room mates, but the marriage was done except paperwork.

And then at that life changing moment in time, after several years of having lost contact.... my first love emailed me. He was now divorced for 5 years, both of our children were grown and gone, and he asked me to come and live with him forever. It was that fast. We had known each other forever.

I did not buy that house I had planned, I relocated to his, and he built me one. It is now, just past year two. It is just as beautiful. We are both retired, we love each other, we have health and age problems, life problems, but we are together through this sickness and health part of life. The deal is....it was real when we were young and it still is. We plan to marry, but we live as any old, married couple...nearly 50 years after we first met. I took the leap. I am so glad, and it was a bit scary. People change with age. We grow different. Somethings are lasting, part of our DNA, I figure.

Not that I suggest anyone do what I did, but....

Dreams do come true. Not often. But if you are really lucky...sometimes, dreams do come true.

And my Mother could not be happier. She said she thinks this love and life we have is a "made for TV movie"...gotta love her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2011 09:53AM by wings.

wings Wrote:
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>
> Dreams do come true. Not often. But if you are
> really lucky...sometimes, dreams do come true.
>
What a story! It is wonderful that it finally worked out for you. The phone call about the pregnant girlfriend must have been devastating. I don't suppose anyone thought it would have been the right thing for them to not marry just because she was knocked up? what a bad basis for a marriage.

I don't know if I even would want to be with him, and based on my decision when we were both single, I didn't then. However, it is nice to have someone who does share your past, I have lost my long term female friends so I have no one else who remembers those times.

And, it was the 1960's. Giving the baby a name was the honorable thing to do, even if everyone knew it would not last. And in Utah, Mormon culture, that happened often. He screwed up one time just before he turned 18. Gosh. 18 and married. They both wanted to move home after two weeks, but lived in hell for 9 years...precious years.

wings, that was a great story. Thanks for sharing. Since you were both divorced it all worked out for you both. Sometimes you have to wait to get the best out of life. Enjoy each other and all the great times ahead.

I found out my exH was having unprotected, anon sex with many, many men and women, though I never know if there were really women when the whole story came out...for our entire marriage (15 years when I found out). He lied and said it was one woman hooker, when caught. Then he expanded to 4 in two years. Then it was men and women and high end escorts. Then the Asian massage parlor story came into play. This took nearly a year and two living apart periods to get to this info. By then, I was emotionally blank and seeing a shrink. Bottom line, he also was taking drugs. I moved out for a year to another state. I never did a grudge affair. Never. I was not stable enough in my own mind to even date. When I had to sell the house we owned, recession time. We made a choice to live a room mates and get through the process. So, though I was married on paper with the state, he and I had a post nupt that already laid out the terms of the divorce that I knew was more likely than not.

The last blow was a hidden bank account and some items of value he had hidden, besides money. I was done as just room mates, had the money to buy my own home. I told him it was time to divorce and end the craziness for good. I had never cheated. I got the email from my first love within 24 hours, and it was pure happen chance. When I told him I was divorcing, he told me to come stay with him....forever. And I did. No regrets, no guilt.

My two cents is that OP should not be even speaking to her old flame. The guy is married, leave him alone. He is not available.
If I were the guy's wife, I'd be mad as hell if I found out my spouse was talking to an old flame. Hell, I'm a guy. I'd be mad as hell if my wife were talking to an old flame. In fact, that even happened once. My wife was open enough to let me know a old BF tracked her down and facebook and she asked me how I felt about it, and I said don't go there. So she doesn't. To me, its about respect for another's relationship.

And its totally disrespectful to the guy's marriage for you to keep talking to him.

I agree with Misfit. If he leaves his wife and THEN comes to have a chat about the past with you then good on ya.

Until then you've got no place interacting with him in this way. Especially if you've got unresolved feelings in regards to him.

If I were his wife, I would shit a brick. Seriously.

Just to clarify, I don’t intend to run off and have an affair with him. I also don’t think he would leave his wife, ever. When we were together he cheated on me once and he did feel regret and guilt. His wife has rheumatoid arthritis and although she works full time now, he is prepared financially if she could not work. They have also prepared for an early retirement to enjoy their time together.

His wife knows that we email and he has forwarded emails with funny stuff between us. We have been emailing for over 10 years (maybe more, don’t remember exactly when we started).

The issue is the emotional affair aspect of it. For those who know Myers Briggs personality types, he is an INFP, I am an ENFP, I suspect his wife is a IST(F?)J. For those who are Ns (intuitive) the Ss (sensors) just don’t “get” the mind of an N. It is like a philosopher trying to relate to a cashier. The common interest for them was music, she is a Dead head and he likes music of all kinds, and plays and composes music. I don’t think that she is a creative person and that is one of the issues. I do think they have a very good companionable relationship, it just lacks something.

The good think about writing about this and reading others comments is that it has helped me to clarify the issue. The danger is that I have what his marriage lacks. Which is not necessary a problem but he can’t appreciate that and keep his emotional distance. If I was a male friend, it would be fine. But I am not. The best thing it to do what I did the last time I felt it was getting too intimate, and that was to reduce contact.

He's married. Back off and don't encourage him to privately communicate with you. Even if he is unhappily married. Your affection for each other, if one can characterize it as such, is viewed through a distorted time lens, complicated with youthful "maturity" you each had 20 years ago. And this advice from a godless Athiest.

Ahem! -Bertrand Russell

It sounds like you're doing a lot of justifying and reading a lot of things into their marriage. Stay out of it.
Maybe it would have been bliss if you guys had worked through his abuse and infidelity by you both
But you didn't.
So move on.
I mean, seriously, you know you're playing with fire calling him and finding a way to remain in his life. Sounds to me like you like it that way.

Don't but in to someone's marriage.
Period.

If you succeed in breaking them up and you two get together, the foundation for your renewed relationship will be infidelity.

so I definitely believe that platonic male/female relationships are possible.

That being said, it sounds like you know you that a line has been crossed and that you need to step away from this. Let him resolve whatever is going on in his marriage without you as a complicating or motivating factor.

I am wondering about *your* needs, wishes, and hopes. You mention his wife lacks creativity. I am wondering if you are projecting a need for creativity and intensity in your own life? I sometimes think about people from a period in my life that brought out something particularly important for me and I long for them again. It's a good clue I'm feeling the lack of something that I am projecting onto them and they are "carrying" for me. So what do I need to do to claim that myself rather continue to project it? What is your former boyfriend carrying for you that you feel the lack of right now?