DH got a phone call late Saturday night which he promptly took into the other room and closed the door. I knew then that it was a church member because he doesn't like me to overhear his conversations with them -- he implied it's the equivalent of casting pearls before swine (oink! oink! that's me) I asked him about the call and he said he was meeting with a bishopric member on Sunday, so we both knew it was for a calling.

Sunday after church, I asked him about it and he reluctantly confessed that he accepted a calling. I asked as politely as possible, "So, how many hours a week is that gonna require?" He hedged and dodged but I finally pinned him at an estimate of "around 8 to 12". Again, I didn't say anything but he refused to look me in the eyes during the whole discussion and ended it by saying that he wished I "could just support him in this because it's important to him". I told him that I do support him but that I expect him to put his family's needs first. This is particularly insulting because I recently asked him if he could take on some more responsibilities here at home as I've had some things come up that I need to take care of.

I've been doing this with him for a year now and he still acts like I'm not worthy of him, and when I confront him about it he claims he doesn't feel close to me because I'm "not nice in how I talk to him". In other words, I disagree with him trying to tell me that I'm stupid for leaving the church, so that makes me not nice.

Did any of you feel like your spouse was maybe purposely trying to get you to be the one to leave the marriage? It feels like he wants us to be over but he doesn't want to be the one to end it because then he can look like "the good guy" and "the martyr". I have begged him to go to counseling with me, begged him to talk things over with me, and he just storms off and stays away until after I'm in bed asleep. I can only discuss 'safe' subjects -- the kids' schedules, the weather -- or he cold shoulders me. GROW UP!

I told him that I refuse to live like this indefinitely and that he needs to figure out whether or not he truly loves me and wants to make it work. That got him REALLY pissed and he started snarling stuff about me being a coward who runs from trouble and would abandon my children and put them through hell just for my own selfish reasons. Then he implied that my unhappiness is because of my leaving the church... when I told him that his current behavior sure doesn't reflect well on his church, he left the room and didn't talk to me for hours.

I sooo cannot keep doing this! But I'm not yet in a position where I could manage on my own (I really need his health insurance) - I am working hard to rectify that, but it takes time to get all the pieces lined up, you know? I don't do ultimatums, but I need him to take this seriously instead of behaving like a two-year-old throwing a tantrum when he doesn't get his way.

Ugh, thanks for letting me vent.

It certainly sounds like you're serious. Work out how you might manage on your own, and then should that be the only viable option, you will be prepared. In the mean time, if he realises what you are doing, it will be a subtle reminder to him that he can't take you for granted.

I know, that's what I am doing.

And above all, don't lose your cool. All marriages need work from time to time, and since he won't talk with you, your only option, it appears to me, is counseling, and not with the bishop, but a non-LDS counselor, a licensed one who actually knows what she/he is doing. Basically, a mediator who doesn't allow cheap shots and "storming off" garbage.

Really, it does sound like he needs to grow up and verbalize his priorities, then put his money where his mouth is. He should try living his so-called Christian religion, and put his family first. That begins with loving his wife, like the bible says to do. (Corinthians)

The biggest issue is that he makes you feel unworthy. Regardless if he is actually doing so purposefully or it's just your perceived notions, the two of you are at an impasse. When communication breaks down in a marriage, everything else follows suite. If you want to stay married, keep trying to get him into counseling. My husband and I did for 1.5 years and it helped tremendously.

He won't go to counseling. Period. I asked, "Even if it might mean saving our marriage?" and he said the problem is obviously me, so there's no need for him to go. He also would not be supportive if I went without him - he claims that therapists are all quacks that give bad advice that usually ends up doing more damage to a marriage and that if I would just live the commandments then there wouldn't be any problems.

HangInThere, do you mean "his way or the highway"? Yes, I see it that way. As an apostate, I'm not allowed to have a way. ;)

Perhaps he doesn't believe that you will actually leave because you are dependent on him? My husband blamed me for 90% (he actually gave that percentage) of our marital issues until we went to counseling. Now we both laugh at that but at the time, he truly felt he was right.

I'm not encouraging you to leave if you feel you can find a path of love and mutual respect despite your conflicting religious views but you can still remain on his health insurance while being separated and getting on your feet.

1. Continue to live with him as he is
2. Divorce him and take him for everything you possibly can. He's one sorry SOB.

You might, in front of the bishop, remind him of the 11th Article of Faith, unless that only pertains to men, not women, since, once again, women aren't mentioned.

Ugh....What a horrible situation you are in. Believe it or not, this is a tactic some people use to get the partner to leave.

I don't have any advice, especially because he doesn't want counseling. It's been my experience that people who refuse therapy are afraid the problem really is them. They don't want to hear it, so they shift most of the blame on the partner.

Sorry you're going through this- It's not easy being with someone who blatantly disrespects your feelings.

i feel for ya kid...(well maybe not kid...but prolly younger than this ole man!)... just follow HIS commandments then..right? OY VAY!! how old are the kiddies? and do you have a chronic condition that requires INS? i have diabetes and right now i am not insured even though i have a job!! NO insurance that is underwritten will take me....there are some options though....limited indemnity plans are available and they may provide some options....i am waiting for 6 months to get into the state ins. program where i can get "real" coverage! check out your options.... personally i like to see marriages work... however you cant remain in a marriage where 1 party feels like ALL the problems are the other parties fault.... that is way immature! what it seems he wants is to be a priesthood holder and for you to obey all his "commandments"! !

why do YOU have a problem with what she has expressed here? oh would you rather she lived indefinitely like she is?? hang in there.... that seems to contradict what your post actually says!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 01:39PM by bignevermo.

I'm sorry that you have to, AngelCowgirl. I know it's been rough. Keep trying to get your ducks in a row so that you can be independent of him if it comes to that. And if there's any way that you can go to counseling by yourself, I would do it. It might give you some tools to deal with him.

I second the getting counseling for yourself. It would give you a face-to-face human being to vent to, use as a soundingboard and work out any lingering issues of your own. I think it's an excellent suggestion -- even though I do NOT believe that you are the issue in your marriage. (Certainly you aren't the ONLY issue -- your husband is acting like a petulant child.)

Sorry for the situation you are in.

It's not much different for me.

In another time and place....

He would always torque things around so that I had to be the one to make the final 'decision' on everything, from moves, to house purchases, etc. That way, I could never complain, as he would throw it right back on me. I hadn't thought of his using that tactic to get ME to file for the divorce, but it makes a lot of sense now. He did a couple of horrible things toward the end that made me realize that the marriage had to be ended.

When I first resigned, he would tell me that I was deluding myself. He would not listen to anything I told him, or read things I printed out. It all went into the garbage.

And yes, when I filed, he was the martyr at church. Everyone rallied around him, as the poor older middle aged man whose wife 'went nuts' and divorced him after 32 years. Now, ten years after we split, he is worse than ever. It seems that with each year that goes by he hates me more, even though he's been married to a TBM for 5 years.

I doubt that your husband would file either. The cruel way members are treated brings out the passive agression, as you probably know. I understand the turmoil you are going through. I remember the night well, as we sat facing each other in the living room. I looked at him and said,"It's not you, it's not me, it's us. We need to get a divorce. It helped him save face a little, as I will take 25% of the blame, give him 25%, and the Morg 50%. Mormonism wreaks havoc on many marriages, if the spouses have very different approaches and are not both following it to the letter.

If we lived close, we could meet in person to compare notes.I'm in Washington State. I'm so sorry that you have to be going through all this.

Ask him flat out: "What's more important, church or family?"

If he says, "Church," then you have your answer. If he says, "Family," then you say, "THEN PROVE IT!"

TBMs can't even tell the difference between church and family. He is most likely to fudge the question because he genuinely won't have an answer.

Love it!

If he won't talk to you about these issues, refuses to see you as an equal partner, and won't talk to a counselor, I'm afraid you're already at the point where the marriage is over.

Seriously - who cares if he wants to play the martyr here? What matters is that your marriage is broken. Regardless who is at fault for the state of your marriage, it's broken.

And you're giving ultimatums which he has no intention of complying to.

You already have your answer. Go talk to a counselor on your own and discuss what you need to do to prepare for divorce.

+1 Spot on.

for the More Demanding aspects of Love:

Kindness, Trust & Respect
Honesty
Charity

even Mercy & Compassion are Highly-Tightly 'defined' by them!

with their Simon Says Corporate Governance, they have written of the Best Parts of a life of Loving Kindness...
They're CHEATING THEMSELVES out of wholesome, 50-50 relationships where others put (Gasp) THE RELATIONSHIP FIRST!

they've wrapped themselves up in their 'flag' of (what the call) "Obedience" (to WHAT???)

Sorry, AC, but ur Hub is FOLLOWING the Mo "Patriarchal Order" of being an obnoxious AssHat, rather than a living-breathing human-being.

Sorry, Mormons; as things are now, You'll NEVER recover from the circumstances you've made for yourselves!

Notice the self-serving Lip Service:

"The family is the most important unit in time and in eternity and as such,transcends every other interest in life." (Howard W. Hunter, Ensign - November 1994)

<YES, HE WAS PROPHET/PRESIDENT AT THE TIME!!!!>


(my DW was Exactly like A.Cowgirl's DH; should we Trade?)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 03:54PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Maybe you could talk to the bishop and ask him to encourage your husband to go to counseling with you. He seems like he might listen if it came from the bishop instead of you. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. I think that counseling could potentially save your relationship, if you are still interested in that, and I bet with a little prodding you could get the bishop to make him go.

to the Bishop that you cannot support DH in his calling until he attends counseling and works on his marriage.

T-Rex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> to the Bishop that you cannot support DH in his calling until he attends counseling and works on his marriage.


+1. + a whole lot more than 1! That'll put it back in his court!

and her husband agrees, she should be prepared to negotiate who the counselor might be. If I were AngelCowgirl's husband I would agree but stipulate an LDS counselor. That might be fine, depending on the counselor, but I would research several counselors, if possible, who might be mutually acceptable before I pushed for this and make it it part of my request. If she refuses, then she's in the position of demanding something and then refusing it when it is accepted. Not a good position to be in.

and refusing to meet you half-way are certain ways to do it. I'm really sorry you are in this situation. If he is not willing to see a therapist, would he possibly sit down with you and work through John Gottman's book Ten Lessons to Transform Your Marriage? BYU uses his work in their Forever Families in the School of Family Life.

As for health insurance, check on your state laws regarding legal separation, divorce, and coverage. Here in CA a spouse who is separated must still be covered by health insurance. Before you make any decisions, find out what your legal rights and options are.

And yeah, I think he is trying to make you the bad guy and himself the martyr rather than work it out. I hope he changes his mind because it is stupid. Martyr-dumb is a cold comfort. Been there, done that. Much better for him to learn the skills of working through a relationship and understand that relationships can change AND continue to be good. It's not the Mormon Model to believe that, unfortunately.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 04:25PM by robertb.

I don't think it matters if you leave or he leaves. My ex left me and the ward thought it was my problem . . . as he was so likeable. It won't matter if you leave or he chooses to end it.

What they don't realize is the mess they create. Do they really think that they can just go find another mate? Another family?

What a laugh!

You'd be better off without him, but what a mess.

I'm "lucky" in that my ex didn't pursue divorce--just left. After 16 years, I still have his insurance. Unless gay marriage becomes legal (and even then) he won't pursue divorce.

I have so much empathy for you, even thought I am not in a situation like yours.
Passive-aggressive people drive me right to the edge and leave off the parking brake.

It's never even a little bit their fault or concern.

Also notice that rather than address anything, they just avoid it, hoping it will go away.

You know, I know so many religions where the one active spouse/partner just hopes and prays that the other will eventually "see the light".
LDS is the only one I've some across that just wants to throw away people rather than hope for them.

As Dear Abby says, go to a consular, if he won't go, go without him. Your well being need to be taken care of.

I'm so glad you decided to "vent"! My DH has made my life a living hell since walking out three months ago. Everything was always my fault. I spent years trying to change myself to please him and make him happy but he would always find something else I needed to change about myself. He blamed me every time he got fired from a job. He went overseas and was almost killed in a bomb blast. Would you believe he said it was my fault? He said it was God's way of giving me one last chance to change. He tried to get me to leave the marriage but my concept of for time AND all eternity didn't include abandoning someone you've loved for almost 19 years. Guess I'm better off without him since IMO he ended our marriage the moment he stepped foot out the door. I think it's midlife crisis. As another poster said, its really just a lame excuse to go and satisfy their selfish needs. Before my DH left I got to the point in my life that I had changed so much for my DH that I didn't know who I was anymore. Add to that the second betrayal by the church lying to me and all the members since it's inception...I really don't know what to think anymore. As someone else has posted, my mind feels like swiss cheese right now. In the end, before my DH Priesthood holder left he kept pointing out how I had broken my vows by not wearing my garments anymore. Wow! Why is being a Priesthood holder an excuse to be a dick? (no pun intended). I feel for you and I'm sorry someone else has to go through this hell. Anyone who has been through this and live to see the bastard have karma bite them in the butt?

30 years later:

I've really had a pretty nice life. Two great kids. A husband who is my best friend, and enough $ to pay the bills and have some fun in life. I am really quite happy and contented. (even more so since leaving church)

Him:
Remarried, she left 6 mo. later. No children. Lives in a single wide in his parents back yard. Been to jail a couple times, rehab a couple times. He shovels cow poop at the local stock yard.Wow did i dodge a bullet or what? He still has the church thing going though.

That sounds like my ex, as according to him, everything was my fault, and it was so bad that if he blamed me for his grandpa's Alzheimer's, I would have agreed. Yet, I was the one who had to file, since if I didn't, we probably would still be legally married, and my credit rating would still be in the toilet. One of the things I had to do after filing for divorce was to rebuild my credit rating, and I found that it had been fixed when I passed a credit check for a job, and was allowed to actually start working. There was one job I didn't get soon after my divorce because of failing the credit check.

I did find that karma bit him in the butt shortly after the divorce was final, as I happened to go inside a real estate office as it was a polling place, and in the window under foreclosures, was a picture of the house he lived in with his mom. I have to admit that at the time, seeing his house listed as a foreclosure did make me smile a bit. I'm sure he thinks I called the health department because of his compulsive hoarding making the place unsanitary, but it's more likely that the bishop made the report after getting lots of complaints by the HT's and VT's who refused to visit at the end of the month.

One night if he tries this, stay up, stay awake and see what the little weasel, sorry, I mean upstanding example of his church, does, then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 09:45PM by matt.