We live in different states and I'll be in his town on business next week. When I left the church a few weeks ago he went bonkers on me said a bunch of weird cultish things like.

"If my wife said she didn't believe I'd have to divorce her"

"I strive really hard to earn my mansions in heaven"

"I worked too hard on my mission for the church not to be true"

Then he said things like I was being lured away by Satan. That I know better because I went to the temple. That my eternal soul is now in jeopardy. Much much more. Many crazy things were said by him and he also went bonkers on my Facebook wall.

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So now he wants to take me out to dinner. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but what if he starts in on me again?

If not, then no.

Why would you put yourself through this?

just a hypothetical question.

It's one thing to eschew friends over religious issues, but it's hard to lose family over such silly matters. You may never be best friends, but you should try to keep family ties up.

my sister's tbm so i kinda imagined myself in your situation.
i say give it a go (maybe he calmed down a bit?)

Tell him you love him and you'd love to spend family time with him but if he starts ANY religious talk your evening together will be over. If he agrees to those terms then just make sure you stick to it if he starts talking religion.

The one exception I might make is that it would be perfectly appropriate for you to tell him how it made you feel when he attacked you for your religious decision. Don't discuss who is right or wrong, just let him know how it hurt you. (That, by the way, is NOT religious talk, it's talk about feelings. Real people do that.)

Good luck!

As Serena said, you'll have to establish some boundaries with him. Tell him that either religious discussion is off the table, or you think you'll pass on the lunch.

You've received some good advice. Another thing you might want to consider is where you go for dinner. If it were me I'd insist on having dinner at a bar. If your brother is truly interested in seeing you it shouldn't matter. If he wants to push his religion on you, a bar will definitely throw him off base. And if he refuses to meet you at a bar you have your answer.

Things are still too new and raw for him, and if he gets you cornered over a meal he will do nothing but yap religion to you. I would go to his house for a short visit instead, or out for a hot cocoa, etc. and the minute he starts talking religion, I would say something like this --

"Brother, you already said that to me. I understand that you're upset by my decision, and that you're concerned about me. You are entitled to your feelings. But I have feelings as well, and I don't like it that you seem to insist that I believe exactly as you do. If we are to have a relationship moving forward (and I deeply hope that we will,) my religious choices regarding the LDS church are going to have to be off the table as a topic of discussion. If you can't abide by that I'll have to leave until you can abide by that. I am asking you, as your loving brother, to live your own eleventh article of faith."

Then get up and walk away if he can't stop himself.

My experience is that you can shape someone's behavior over time if you refuse to engage when that person is behaving inappropriately with you. Hang up the phone ("Oops, gotta go!") or leave the room. In order for that to work, however, the other person has to *want* to have a relationship with you.

Just because you go to the dinner doesn't mean that you have to stay. If he starts to go where you don't want to go ask for the check and then leave.

I was worried about having a one-to-one meal with my TBM brother, too. Maybe he is nicer than your brother, but we always have so much family news and family business to discuss, that we don't get around to religion. If your brother brings up the subject, let him bear his testimony and tell you about all the wonderful blessings in his life, and be happy for him. But if he starts getting ugly, just say, "Let's not talk about religion or politics" and change the subject. Don't be intimidated! Remember, he is brainwashed.

My older brother always intimidated me, and I was especially nervous on our first meeting after I left, so I met him for lunch, during my lunch break, and I let him know that my time was limited. Your time is too valuable to waste it on arguing about religion--right?

I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion and recommend that you go, regardless of whether he's going to talk religion or not. Of course, I know nothing about the particulars of your relationship, so this very well may be bad advice, but it's what I would do in my own situation.

For me, it comes down to the cost of maintaining a relationship with my family. My father, bless his heart, usually tries to sneak in a religious topic every time I visit him. I know him. I know he loves me, and I know where he's coming from. I also get the feeling that he's bewildered by my leaving the church, and hurt by it, and trying to deal with it as best he's able. I imagine he feels like he has to make an attempt to bring me back to the iron rod.

Anyway, so all that said, I love my dad and want as good a relationship with him as possible. For me, that means at least three things; accepting him on his terms, not avoiding him, and letting the occasional sermon roll off my back.

Ultimately, you have very little power to sway your brother's opinion about the church or about you leaving it. What you DO have within your power is to try to have a good relationship with him.

Life is short, and if you no longer believe in an afterlife (like me), this is all we get. There's a damn good chance this lifetime is the only time you'll ever have with your brother. I say take the opportunities presented to have a good relationship, and if that means sucking up a few sermons (or a lot), it's not the end of the world.

Anyway, I'm not in your position, I don't understand the dynamics between yourself and your brother, and I'm just another stranger on the internet. So feel free to disregard everything I've said.

Still, he's family.

And he absolutely wants to go "bonkers" again at dinner.

It may be a more subtle form of bonkers, but bonking is something that hard core TBMs just can't help themselves doing.

This is about managing the relationship, and you are the only one who can determine if you can handle the bonks or confront it with a good old fashioned case of the ape shit.

Just remember that all he has are feelings. But you have facts.

"I worked too hard on my mission for the church not to be true"

This is a classic logical fallacy. Because he has invested so much, he thinks he has to keep investing. However, it doesn't matter how much you already put it. All that matters is what you will get if you keep investing. That time/effort/money is gone. The time/effort/money you have now is what matters. Do you keep throwing good money after bad, or cut your losses.

Obviously, no amount of effort can make the church be true. Either JS saw God or he didn't. Your brother getting up and dawn and working until dusk can't possibly change that one way or the other. Lots of people work very hard in their own belief systems, and it doesn't make them any more true or fictional.

Thank you,

I'm going to do it but still nervous. You're ideas have helped

Love it! Such a naively stupid remark. As for me, I paid too much tithing for it not to be true. But it wasn't true, and I know they played me for a rube. You might somehow illustrate to him how he's being played for a rube, too.

he needs to set you straight. He is probably on some kind of mission to save you. It happens!

So if you want to have a nice dinner, then you'll need to set the boundaries first. You will need to tell him you'll go to dinner on one condition that there is no mention of religion of any kind. If he can't agree to do that, then dinner is off.
Then wait for his reply. If he agrees, and you go to dinner, you'll need to let him know what is going to happen if he brings up religion -- dinner is off, and you leave.

Most likely, he thinks he can bamboozle you and manipulate you. So, my view is to stand your ground, don't give an inch, and have a nice dinner. It's the only way to enjoy the food! :-)