after all we can do, we surrender into christ rightousness and deny our own stinking filthy rags of rightousness and vain obedience. It is out of love and graititude that we dont have to earn or buy our way to heaven, that good works will come naturally without force, to seal up our commitment in a personal relationship with christ. Mormonism does not teach this, but only fear and guilt and how lazy we are not to measure up.... Jesus really meant to say if you cant believe in yourself then at least believe in me (christ) then it will lead you to the same place, self-worth, the light of concious
and spirit void of self-inflicted hell and darkness, and unecessary suffering now or here-after. Morality in itself doesnt save anyone either. Even good honerable faithful athiest can be moral and up right and decent, maybe some more kind than some christians, tho others will eat, drink and be merry for tommorow we die.

peace be unto us all who choose some self-respect and not fall for unecessary abuse of self serving malicious mind controlling cults, and take it all with a grain of salt or at least run a mile if our vonerability comes under attack to question and expose deceptions. For the bible at least said expose deceptions in relegion, and come together and reason with a thinking brain rather than moved apon by a brainless feeling and void of true facts, save it be the facts of mormonism is pretty much flawed and covered up with many lies from the beginning. ITs all about keeping the image of the empire of mormonism and some other masonary secret society practice money co-operations, than it is about the people yet they want our money, tithes and offering.

Ide rather give it to a begger on the street than to a greedy mormon empire.....The bible says we should wash each others dirty feet, including leaders, not seen or heard off in mormonism. So it prooves the money is to feed the elite, rich and powerful lds just like the catholic church, where works, money is everything to keep the image and cult alive, everythhing but love and reaching out and going after the one lost sheep. The poor sheep havent a leg to stand on in such a greedy demanding organization.

The real jesus of love, mercy, and off grace inspires good works, not forced but natural and a sealing up of our personal commitment and relationship with our saviour out of gratitude there is nothing we have to do but we choose to serve valiently not because we have to but because we want to..

blessings and peace unto all with good hearts in recovery from the false christ of a masonary cult..

exldswestaussie.

Sorry, what exactly are you grateful to jesus about?

"Jesus really meant to say if you cant believe in yourself then at least believe in me (christ) then it will lead you to the same place, self-worth, the light of concious
and spirit void of self-inflicted hell and darkness, and unecessary suffering now or here-after."

How do you know what Jesus really meant to say? He didn't say what he meant?

"Morality in itself doesnt save anyone either. Even good honerable faithful athiest can be moral and up right and decent, maybe some more kind than some christians"

So people who become moral through faith in Christ after receiving his grace can be saved, but people who are moral simply because they are good people and choose to be will not be saved. Why is that? Who is more moral? The person who chooses morality with the hope of salvation, or the person who chooses morality for morality's sake without salvation as a reward? Please explain why faith in Jesus is more important to God than being a good person (since you indicated that an atheist who is kinder and more moral than a Christian will still not receive salvation.)

You're full of shit. You don't know who or what the "real Jesus" is, nor do you know what he meant. You should have been bright enough to leave Jesus & pals behind when you woke up to the fraud of Mormonism. Instead, you just traded absurdities.

Why are you preaching to us?

Now now boys and girls, I was being nice for a change.
Thought I'de share my views of grace and as for you Alan
who is proberbly athiest, nothing any type of christian says
will be anything less than shit, as far as morals goes,for those who dont accept christ, what off it, and better still if
all good moral folks for the sake of morals not expecting reward could be rewarded, as light energy for any acceptance of grace in ourselfs that there is nothing we can do to earn it but simply as th buddhests say if we cant do any thing great then at least not harm anyone.
we are all great when we express love be it christian or fucking not. Salvation is for all that is or evolves love
and that humble intelligence cannot be killed, and is pure
spirit or state of being, again christian or not.
Let jesus have his chosen friends or those who choose jesus be with him or perhaps good atheists would accept him in the awakening from the grave. But your right I could be full of shit and what do I know. One cult to another an that could include mainstream christianity. Tho taking out some insurance is better than none, what if christ is the only way folks what then? No one fucking knows not even me. So in admitting that I should not of preached and apologise.
Tho I appeciate all views and opinions and that is all part of humbling. EVeryone is entitled to their views.
I am dealing with overcomming anger and hurt by mormonism
and have been chastised even on this site to be more positive and not so negitive so in light of that, I choose to embrace that light, tho I believe that most of it is within ourselfs,
tho its another story to have a friend in jesus and a personal relationship with him by faith.

So yer thanks for your views. And L Ron Hubbard or Tom Cruise
of scientology, you would agree its what works. If christianity dont work, fuck it. What works for all of you
so good luck...

Exlds aussie.

That was beautifully said and right on. We serve out of gratitude. We are saved by HIS grace. Ignore the rude people who may disagree with you but don't have the skills to write about their disagreement without being mean. I enjoyed your post.

You spelled "salivation" wrong.

No need to thank me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2011 01:23PM by baura.

When you die, as every human will do, then you are gone, finished, terminated, dead, and that's the end. The so called "after life" is magical wishful thinking that makes absolutely no sense. Religion is a scam and a waste of time that detracts from the pleasures and beauty of the real world in which we live.

I posted this at some A$$hat's blog where a couple of Mormons came out of the woodwork to defend the church. I think I make a good defense of the modern day Christian position viz. grace and works.

Of course, I hope I don't need to reiterate that I hate the LDS church and I really only have use for Christianity to the extent that its doctrines can be used to bog down and frustrate Mormons from achieving mainstream status for their "restoration" polytheology. Mormons love to say that they are Christians too, and yet in public discussions with Christians the Mormon difference of works righteousness can be made apparent, and one does that for the explicit purpose of disadvantaging Mormons in the public sphere.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Fellow atheists, please consider this bit of realpolitick wisdom before going off on Christians for being just as imaginary in their beliefs as Mormons are. If Christians evangelize here, then I back your attacks on them here. But if they are simply attempting to articulate differences of doctrine that can be wielded against Mormons, then please consider what you are aiming at.

Yes, Mormonism makes many of us allergic to religion of any sort and both religions are based on fantasies and hypothetical textual constructions, but I suggest that Mormons are guilty of even bigger and more dangerous lies.

As I would tell fellow atheists at the About.com atheism forum, Mormons represent a fundamentalism that many of the more liberal and secularized versions of mainstream Christianity have thrown off. In that sense the LDS are a throwback, a REGRESSION that really must be resisted by anyone who values reason and modern progress. Using current day Christianity, in its most liberalized teaching of grace, is a weapon to use in the public arena against Mormons who will predictably champion works righteousness, Abrahamic sacrifice, and levels of justification and sanctification before God based on one's works. That way lies dangerous institutional abuse as we all well know.

http://blog.chron.com/mormonvoice/2011/10/mormons-are-christians-heres-why/#comment-494

Blake Garten says:
November 8, 2011 at 10:03 pm
The problem with Abraham sacrificing someone else’s life is that one would be hard pressed to find anyone except the most vile fanatic, someone we would unhesitatingly incarcerate, who would be willing to knife his or her son on the basis of hearing a voice purportedly from God. Society would look at that behavior and be horrified. On that view alone discussion of Abrahamic obedience is pointless and unrealistic; it’s a maturity that no human being will ever achieve, which makes my point that Christ’s grace is sufficient, in a new and everlasting covenant. Go to 1 Cor 15:1-4 and read: “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.” Christians stand on this. Mormons don’t. That’s why there is a difference and why Christians distrust Mormons. Mormons don’t like it, evidently, because they get indignant that they aren’t smoothly and automatically considered Christians.

As I said previously, they are Christian in name and that’s about all. Their downgrading of the Savior’s sacrifice, of his gift, is understandably obnoxious to Christians. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for sins. That’s why he is the Messiah. That’s why public or general revelation is over. Such revelation cannot override, supplement, or complete the Christian faith, which is precisely what Mormon “revelations” and “prophets” claim to do. See 2 Cor. 4:3-4: “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” To Christians, Mormons are spiritually “perishing” in works righteousness.

Finally, the past doctrinal changes of Mormonism provide no confidence that there will not be equally radical revisions to Mormon doctrine in the future. There may be more strange developments yet to come as Mormonism reinvents itself to fit the cultural mores around it. Such fruits are not the work of God but the work of man. The Mormon God is changeable, fickle, flexible, blown about by the winds of doctrine and the philosophies of men.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2011 02:30PM by derrida.

Good for you, Aussie! My children and I are Christians, too, and proud of it! I agree with Honestone.

To be blunt, I consider the argumentative posters to be spiritually closer to Mormonism, than the rest of us are. I'd like to think that the majority of us on this board have learned ---the hard way--to be tolerant. We were once victims ouselves. The fighters have not yet grown up, and grown out of their old Mormon hatred-based brainwashing.

40% of Mormons, when they leave Mormonism, become Atheist. which is interesting. Some of my most beloved family and friends are Atheist, and these Atheists are very loving and kind toward others. What percentage still keep their old ideas of elitism, hatred, and suspicion of other beliefs and cultures?

Damn it, we're here to RECOVER! If someone has found happiness in the light of Christ, be glad for them. If others have found a good group of drinking buddies, or others go out in nature and meditate, if people get divorced, if they become separated from their families, if they have to move out of Utah, if they remain slumped in a chair in the temple--they all travel a different road, and they have a right to do whatever they must do.

We are here to support each other.

Plus 10!!!!

Sorry forestpal, I'll never be tolerant of people who believe in magical birth feeling that they are superior to people who believe in magical underwear.

Hell, I don't even have a problem with this poster preaching to us. However, the moment there is a condemnation of Mormonism based on the superiority of someone's faith, the toleration goes away.

That has a lot more to do with critical thinking than it does with Mormonism.

honestone, derrida and forrest pal, thankyou so much for your
postive humility and uplifting. I felt the spirit of god in your replieys. I felt a balance that was always lacking in mormonism and its judgmental views toward its people never
doing enough, yet demanding the paying of tithing.

Tho the beautifal spirit I felt confirmed to me in your replieys, is honest and not blind faith, but a faith that
see's through deception and lies, and comming to reason together
as the bible jesus says and not be fooled or decieved by
a feeling that overwhelmes by another angel preaching another messege such as mormonism, let such a church be accursed the bible says.....

Thankyou for your humble honesty and blessings to you and others who have found the real jesus and overcomming their anger and bitterness slowerly but hopeful having entered into christ rightousness and deny their own stinking filthy rags of mormon rightousness, now we can say the sun truly does shine and we dont have to do a thousand rituals from church callings,attendence of temple to capture the light, as if anything, I always felt in the temple, i was in some alien space ship about to be abducted into expermimentation to qualify spiritual dna to enter their kolob realm, that was not nearest to god but furtherest from him, and a light
that was pure deception if called light at all.
The bible says that they have no light in them who deny the
plain and simple messege of the bible and word, and fullness of grace, no matter how much feeling when they say I know the mormon church is true, even little children whispered by their parents to speak it from the pulpit not allowing a mind of their own to think and reason. Its such a brainwashing mind controlling money grabbing smart successful cult, the finest marketing stradgeties on earth put into practice, a sales pitch and reward promise of becomming gods and eternal procreation to good to refuse, in planted with promises that
are all so called revelation based beond the word of the bible. I do apologise if I am preaching. Tho I am happy to had positive replieys from good hearted ex mormons who may
have families to raize also, are enjoying the real jesus of love and mercy, a direct path without going through man or answering to vain, arrogant modern day levitical pharasee priests who walk past the wounded man to get to the temple
while a good samariton stops to help is the better example christ said..

christians catch the fish first and christ cleans them
Mormons clean the fish first and the devil catches them.

No more unecessary bondage, hurt and miserable depression
trying in vain, in our own rightousness living up to such
a man made cult, living in fear and guilt and stupid inteviews that violate privacy to want to know everything
personal to enter their masonary buildings of sacred secrecy.

If mormons have their own little heaven just for those type of so called saints, then such a god I know not. But I do desire to know the real jesus, who said if you have seen me you have seen the father....Jesus who created this world and all live on it who appeared to abraham and moses etc then sacrificed himself to end all the levitical nonsense and temple execution of the penalties, yet mormonism restored all that nononse back, to live by the law and die by the law.

Under fullness of grace, we cannot be manipulated so much by man or answer to man or vain priests to have the last say.

"christians catch the fish first and christ cleans them
Mormons clean the fish first and the devil catches them."

Pass the tarter sauce.

Seriously, it might be time to read a few other books besides the Bible. I don't know what else to say.

I love Jesus as well. So glad to have left the false gospel of Mormonism behind!

Despite the attacks on buddhism, the values of compassion and refining ego and detaching from unecessary desires and vain wants, life becomes so much more simple. I still love and serve christ, by accepting the profound explained meaningful teachings of buddah, that goes straight to the core of beingness, where we can choose christ as the centre anyway, a great secret then express outwardly the true love we have found for the unconditional peace it brings and not have to answer to man or priest, or be misjudged.

thanyou again for your funny repliey dagny and notmo etc.

blessings to you all...

west aussie.

Mormons are saved by works, grace only after all you can do..

Http://Afterallwecando.com

thankyou nlocnil that is true, the horse before the cart.
Its a mockery to the cross of jesus, and kind of justice robbing mercy. In so called mormon rightousness and how it triggered depression trying to live up to all that nonsense and levitical rules, save it be void of animal sacrifice,
I never felt really stable about it and portrayed anixiety to the core and a lawer profession new bishop, terminated my attendence discriminated against depression, didnt fit into
his ward and made him feel uncomfortable a threat to his arrogant power monger position....

When I stopped living by mormon rules and its levitical rightousness or even self-rightous dogma, surrended my rags of rightous, entered into christ rightousness, I felt a peace that could not be shaken by man, rocked up to church and was told how improoved I looked in my encountance, had a peaceful spirit about me and this was because they thought I was now truly super rightous. The fact was I had a few drinks in moderation the day before, and they not knowing that is complimenting me for having a peaceful spirit such hypocracy all about stability and behaviour to fit into mormonism that I could work it to my advantage by not confessing I was breaking the word of wisdom even for medical reasons.
Tho in finding the true or real jesus I still want to overcome
all needs for legal substance, tho vonerability at any church
more so mormonism can attack me when ever I try to hard to be rightous and have to remind myself that the fullness of grace requires no vain effort or rightousness. Then not because we have to but rather want to in gratitude, good works will come
to let our light shine, in the word, and peaceful spirit of the loving lord in a personal relationship, void of any obligation or bondage to man, leader or so called judges in israel who have the last say by opinionated revelations that can discriminate against mental depression, trigger or make it worse, and even break up families...

Just like to thank all those who replied, another step to my own healing, and honored that there are those also in recovery who have shown empathy toward me even tho I can say to much or sound like preaching but I am happy in new hope to
keep some faith in the king of kings but from a non mormon
perspective.... ARe mormons christian? How can they be to be so judgmental and discriminating....There are good in all relegions but in mormonism, after my nervous breakdown and break up of my marrige, every so called rightous friend gave up on me and even spred gossip to a degree that led to that bishop to lie he had revelation to terminate me when he only caved into malicious gossip and false accusations against me and my family....

after all we can do, is not to do but surrender into christ rightousness, deny our filthy rags of mormon rightousness and arrogance, and enter also into christ perfection as humble childlike children, a direct path to christ not answering to man and unecessary fear and guilt trips. This has allowed recovery from the hurt of false man made relegion.

peace be unto ye all even those who are now athiest that is their choice as came from hard stock athiest parents, at least to learn to relax and overcome anger if ever so slowerly it is my testimony that the real jesus I can finally call my friend and I have faith in my lord I pray from here on.

blessings to all..
west aussie......

I LOVE what you have been saying westlifeaussie. I find the teachings of Jesus in what dawkins and many other humanists/ atheists say. If there is a god you will find dawkins firmly ok his right hand.

OF COURSE I MEANT ON

Ok cool Nve (nli) then so be it. I suppose better to be athiest than a hypocrate or fooled, hoodwinked to answer to pharisee judgmental mormon priests.
Every salvation by grace church I have visited have shed such
love, mercy and felt the lord forgiven me and I needed to forgive myself... Its hard to forgive oneself when so stupid to been decieved by a hurtful arrogant deceptive cult that doesnt even heed to the messege of the bible in corithians, not to accept any other angel preaching another messege than the word, the bible. An athiest is better or wiser than any
fooled mormon. Tho so be it also, that if we need a personal relationship with christ to be saved, if given the chance thats good and a god of mercy would take into account even
some athiests and give them a 2nd chance surely, as the lord would desire not one would be lost. We are only judged according to our understanding...

Didnt Oliver Cowardly try to come back to the church after his repentance and was shunned to kingdom come and hell and
decided then never to return, yet the church branded him as a permanent apostate? They drove him away in the end...

exlds west aussie..

I have concluded I don't want any kind of salvation, or grace by some religious notion that there is a savior.
That is my personal view.

However, others are free to believe that if that is what you are interested in.

Nice thing about belief systems is that they are widely varied, and culturally and historically very different also.

We can follow our general geographic religious culture/beliefs of our birth, or make other choices.

And the great thing about all of that? We are free to change our mind!
And I did! :-)

very interesting suzie Q I respect your decision.
Before I returned to uniting with jesus the real jesus,
I had been led to believe in myself through Neil Donald
Walsch's books conversations with God books 1 to 3 etc,
that was more buddhist related. Tho just as you said we are free to believe in some belief system that works for us, if we are going on feeling or emotion to be happy. thats cool and proberbly works better. Tho the bible says to not trust in feelings as can be decepetive but have conversion and testiomony apon the word, and come and reason together use our brains and choose an anchor based on spiriutal common sense and logic and facts.... Cults covers lies and that is a fact. New age feeling natural high conversions is wonderful
and open to us all being god godding and that was working for me also, tho it was also a bit andy pandy, and when Neil Walsch said that even hitler will in heaven as we are all of the same light and we only leave behind our dirty ego's a seperate entity we created, evolved or was in our red blood to suffer until burn out in hell, then cease to exist. We our spirits of light will watch ourselfs burn with anguish, but our spirits will feel no pain..
Talking about spirits the bible also says the dead are concious of nothing, no spirit, just death and those who
accepted the real jesus and had a personal relationship with him are ressurected immortal and those who rejected him are ressurected human and mortal again only to raize up armies against the goldern 300 mile wide and high city of the saints but the resurrected enemies in the flesh will suffer the 2nd death and this time cease to exist, consumed by fire from heaven and the pain and fear will be greater knowing it is for all eternity will not exist..
This is not conversations with God doctrines of Neil Walsch books who said he was not a judgmental, angry or jellous god
and that the bible was messed up and written half by man...

Either this is true or its not. If the bible is true then salvation by grace is quiet clear. Mormonism makes it the most deceptive off all scripture, and excites us about becomming a god in exaltation for good works and obedience to the laws of the levitical mostly old testiment temple ordinances of the holy of holy covenants...

No one knows shit not even me. We can only hope, take out insurance or not for our soul or if there is a resurrection,
but what if its all true that there is life after death and that the 8 minuete embraced by the light experience when the heart stops, but restarts to tell the story, yet the brain was not dead, therefor science says in that 8 minuets we can live 2 years in the spirit world imagination or another human life even but once the brain is dead so is the tunnel of light
cease to exist and we are truly dead. The only hope then if there is no spirit world is the ressurection of life be it mortal or immortal again and the bible says only possible in accepting christ and loving and serving him out of graitude
entering into his christ rightousness denying our own filthy rags of lets say mormon and other cult rightousness or rather self arrogant rightousness and judging others.
So not judging you suzie Q, you were once a mormon and believed in magnificent light giving credit to the lds church
and belief system and now you choose to take the credit for yourself as a light being and believe in salvation somewhere else unless became totally athiest and not believe in anything. I wish you all the best and please share more on this site about the happiness it brings for you for your choice. I simply shared my happiness and as I suffered that 8 minuete dead experience tho my brain still alive, I want to believe that there is a spirit or soul, but strangely enough I saw Moroni and his goldern trumpet blowing out of his ass pointing to the saltlake temple in the midst, and then I woke up out of unconciousness of that car accident and went looking for such a church and that temple, that I ended up taking out my endowments in the USA on my mission...
Does that mean mormonism is true....???? NO.
It means that alien beings who created relegion and have mind control over us their experiments, mixed and messed up DNA as being their relatives on earth, they visit as angels and give us experiences when perceptive from choice or from accident and oneday will come down from heaven as a race of beings who also never saw god because they created god and everything was just biology that evolved that not even they know how or when... Now that i a belief system I almost believed in after reading Neil Wasch's books that there is no god but us godding together and ego was the dirty part of us sinning
but even that was expected until we realized we are god godding and no need to panic and go around feeling like shit and kill people who we think is better than us. We were all equal and all god, godding...
Great new age belief system and if that is true RELEGION SUCKS ALL OFF IT...

Dont know Suzie Q but is happiness about a natural high feeling as god, or a solid anchor concrete conviction in the word of god, that can produce the deepest meaningful emotion but only for ONE GOD who is the god of the bible, even Jesus christ jehovah if we please call him the father also as both are suppose to be one tho mormons say one in purpose...

Whatever we choose, can we at least share our happiness and beond joy if possible. ARe athiest happy then share it, rather than anger and misery. I respect athiest more than
arrogant self-rightous pig mormon leaders..

thankyou everyone for your comments I am most grateful and life is an adventrous wonderful journey tho sometimes so hard and sucidal tho what ever helps us to survive, and a belief system can open many doors be it light spirits of truth or light spirits of deception whatever turns you on, but anything to get rid of those mormon fear and guilt trips and move on with the hope that a loving god does not want to see one sheep lost no not one. I was terminated many years ago to this day for mental depression as didnt fit in and seemed to be a threat to the bishop who could of given me a hug to make me feel better and welcomed but instead he threw me out and never let me back, went onto becomming stake president and that happen here in Perth Dianalla West aussie stake. He later recently told a friend off mine I had preached apostacy because I blew the whistle on a racist leader who he and his gang of gossipers tried to break up my asian marrige here in australia and the decision of this bishop to terminate me from hearing of this gossip, actually succeeded and broke my marrige of 8 step children and all off them nearlly joined the church until after they heard what happened to me all fled and here I am in recovery like anyone else.
Its mind boggling, actually mind damagaing the evil abuse that exists in mormonism and yet many leaders dont even know they are doing it so sickening in their egotistical power hungury judges in so called fucking issual ruling over us.

computer shutting down send now.l

is about making peace with our life, all of it.
It's that inner knowing that we are OK and will be OK and life is to be enjoyed. It's about being appreciative and grateful for all of our experiences.
I like this quote:
"Learn to get in touch with silence within yourself, and know that everything in this life has purpose. There are no mistakes, no coincidences, all events are blessings given to us to learn from." - Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

I'm with you exldswestausie. Once one understands and "gets" salvation by grace, they become a true Christian; more so than they ever were as a mormon.
I think that when mormons discover the truth about their religion, many of them feel that: "If my religion is false, all others are likely false also". That's why you see some folks on this site which have (temporarily I hope) lost all belief.
Yes, that's sad, but I have hope.
Thanks for your sharing.

got a bit carried away with the neil Walsch, new age thing I used to be into that,tho helped me deal with escape from mormonism and its hellish crutches, until I found the real jesus and understood the full meaning of grace really seperated all other relegions answering to bondage works and
cultish priests....

Tho Neil Donald Walsch books are mind boggling conversations with the god of himself and all off us together as god godding
tho he had the gift of using the english language of modern day revelation to get a messege across that would free anyone from all relegions if they wanted to give up their hell based fear views in any degree..

I dont believe in eternal burning hell as all fires go out
and the ego idenity, or our clone self human and carnal
could shit itself with exactly fear and guilt in a hell that will consume up the ego enitity while our light spirit looks on and see us die and cease to exist in the flames of hell.

Tho salvation by grace, will free us from any bondage of hell relegions, of many different views, that either we are immortal and living with jesus or we cease to exist and not resurrect or we all resurrect the loosers mortal and the winners immortal.... Neil walsch's non judgmental god says there are no loosers only all winners. We all make it to heaven good and bad, but we the ego idenity left behind that is as real as who we are now scratching our heads, with fear of life is limited and there is no eternity, is the very clone state of mind that will actually die a miserable death in this life or the next, but our light spirit of intelligence is eternal and returns to god, unless the breath of god is our spirit and all of our spirits in collective conciousness and we are simply like an arm or leg of god, and putting it all together we all end up looking like god because we are god, and god looks like jesus and some relegions believe he is jesus jehovah of the old testiment that sacrificed himeself later as human, as god in the flesh
to put a stop to levitical mosiac laws, and restore universal love, tho that is more preached in buddhism..

Hope we can choose that which can teach us that we are not loosers and that god loves us so much that he desires not one sheep will be lost... LOVE IS LOVE.

Jesus was the most evolved of humans if existed and we hope with faith that he did and the bible says he did, more factual than the book of mormon and more evidence. So
eventually if we follow him we all get there and be with him in heaven. But the jehovah witness's dont believe that tho say the large crowd will be on earth in paradise but the bible says the large crowd will be in heaven. They changed the bible to suit themselfs just as Joe smith did to our imperfect king james bible, and we suppose to say its more
pure translation and was a true modern day prophet who did it.

NOn wonder people turn to new age wonders like Neil Donald Walsch and his marvolous works and wonder books, alternative
belief systems that can work and make the laws of attraction in the universe bless us be it christian or not, it just works and why is that????????

As jesus really meant to say if you cant believe in yourself then believe in me, its the same thing and lead to the same place... If we love our selfs, denying our filthy rags of rightousness and dirty ego made refined, we may not need relegion, tho even so I would still choose christ as my master and saviour example and buddah 2nd..

We all know that catholicism in history made a deal with the arabs to start up the muslem relegion even tho it was prophecy that the seed of ISHMALE, sons of the maid, abraham slept with by accident, drunk, had to come to be as opposition in all things but both catholic and muslem were not the truth but a bloody battle, to try take over jeusualam, the pope wanted the city and the muslems wanted the holy of holy dome of the rock and got it...

this on going war, where a peace maker will settle it, the antichrist pope comming, and the world flocking to the beast
the false peace maker, the bible says could be all false sabath sunday relegions according to legalistic seven day adventism the fastest growing christian church now in the world prepering mankind to avoid worship on the devils day sunday and to seal up the true mark of god by worshipping on the original sabbath saturday, the 4th commandment remember the 7th day and keep it holy, being saturday changed by the catholics, and if we are to keep the 10 commandments then that is legalistic and acceptable but nothing adding. Then
the sabbath is important to keep...

I am not seven day adventist but almost baptised one too.
I chose a present sunday relegion, because I could drink coffie, eat pork, fart and get away with not having to confess mastubation etc he he. Tho I'm not perfect I hardly would think that all those good people of sunday worship will end up with 666 mark of the beast if revelations 14 means all wandered after the mark of the beast,(if being sunday relegions) conforming to mother of whores rome and change of sabbath is under satins power....We are told in the mormon temple if anyone walks out of here and breaks these covenants will be in my power the devils... Then break the sunday sabbath and that is one less vice the devil has apon us if the seven day adventist were even closer to the truth than mormons.. We were taught that adventism was the closest but mormons were the most correct...

advenistm doesnt even believe in a soul so its furtherest from mormonism than ever, tho moral wise is even better with word of wisdom health laws than mormonism and truly live it
not even pork,jewery, no tv unecessary, and many other advisable things not quiet laws but makes one more holy and sanctified a true christian as they enter the invisable holy of holy temple in their hearts rather than in a building calling it the sanctury experience.

So temple or no temple, sanctury or no sanctury, just plain
christian salvation by grace, are they less because they worship on catholic sunday or justify it as ok because its the main day off from work weekly or the resurrection day of jesus. whatever, I have a joyful praise happy time at church
the newlife assemblies of god, can be a bit of a rocker church
but the kids rather be there than doing drugs or elswhere as there are many positions without calling just get involved in music or whatever and no works required just a beingness and nothing legalistic.... ARe we or those who enjoy such churches not saved by grace also. ARe mormons and seven day adventist go to higher heavens or the heaven that god sits apon his throne.... We are either saved or not.
all who believe and accept christ build a personal relationship will be in heaven the bible says,ALL together
and who out of love not have to but want to will do good works anyway and live a moral and decent life..

Those who dont choose jesus are they lost? forever?
or cease to exist get their just reward believe in nothing end up nothing here-after?

No one knows and we cannot judge. People hurt by false relegions from catholic to mormonism, to muslem etc who turn athiest god still loves them and takes it all into account
and they could be given a 2nd chance if they discover love is
and love is all there is that is real. The rest is fiction we make up Neil Walsch said in his conversations with god books..

LOVE IS ALL THERE IS.....Discovering love within and toward others is saving grace in itself. Could be true for all no matter what relegion now wouldnt that be nice we dont have to be mormon, seven day adventist, catholic or muslem etc to be saved just love god ( who may be jesus or not in discuise in other relegions) even hindu kristna(christ the blue god) and riencarnation of same god over and over, as christ said dont go into asia I'll take care of that. Had already appeared as the great blue hindu god Kristna.. IF all this is true, we all have a chance to be in heaven, the same heaven then with
god or lord or lords..

food for thought... I hope that christ was kristna etc
tho a hidden secret either was true or not..

Love is love, even athiest have capacity to express the deepest of love and not judge or judge fairly...

blessings to all and thankyou for your imputs, opinions and views from the heart and mind collectively in recovery in discovering alternatives from the hurtful cult deception of mormonism...

exlds west aussie. PErth australia...