In the days of Joe Smith and Brigham young,many of the highest leaders of the church were excommunicated etc.It has not happened in modern times.Why is this so?

Which apostle would most likely be excommunicated or leave the church by choice?

Today it would embarrass the church and it would embarrass the GA. They both have too much to lose, making it extremely unlikely, but certainly not impossible.

It is my hope (and prayer! Ha!) that one of the BIG15 publicly apostacises, taking as many who will believe his words with him. He has the power to influence millions, both present and future Mormons, away from TSCC.

Back in the 1970s. George someone I think?

Now it is more of a corporate thing. Back in the days of Smith and Young, the other high-ups actually believed. Today? Maybe not.

Not an apostle, but George P. Lee, a Seventy. He bucked the system about the Lamanite Placement Program, got pissed off, was ex'd for apostasy and landed in jail for being a pedophile.

Ron

Thanks, Ron. Yes, a 70. It was said he was heading towards being an Apostle, but it all went wrong.

Shame he had to be a pedofile, because that makes it easy for TBMs to discredit him. Hell, it makes it easy for *anybody* to discredit him.

Do we know for a certainty that Lee was a pedofile? Did he admit that? Was the evidence sure? The Church has used the tactics of destroying reputations before. It is always right to lie to protect the organisation!

I think they under under contract, legal, that if they ever leave they owe back all the monies ever paid to them. Also they may have entered into secreat death threats against family members. Something is going on, I know humans and they are threatened with something.

is the top 15 are given cash value of their house in a forgivable loan. Loan is torn up on their death. If they leave it is due and maybe with interest.

Nice rumor to think about. GA's would be destroyed and would have to move to China to get away from the mormon wrath if they told all.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some super-duper-special-secret oath just for GAs. Maybe something better than throat-slashing?

And also there is the fact that those who make up the BIG15 are hand picked (and not by God!) giving those doing the picking every chance to pick wisely from the pool of greedy dishonest businessmen to make sure they don't accidently promote somebody with too much integrity...

The odds are improving all the time.

All they've got to do is accidentally admit somebody to the club who actually has integrity and is young enough to understand how to operate google.

It could happen.

+10!!!!

The BIG15 are living a great quality of life! They would never want to leave the club even if they have to lie a little. They are celebrities in Utah and among Mormons worldwide. They probably get freebies from all types of businesses, hotels, restaurants, and other establishments. They sit on executive boards and make over 100K per board they sit on, even though they work about 7 days in the whole year to give their input.
They also get the little perk of being able to write books and sell them at Deseret Books.

They probably vet prospective GAs pretty good to make sure they won't rock the boat. They look at the family pedigrees, business credentials, and net worth. They also probably belong to some Good Ol' Boys network too.

There is a possibility that there are some secret oaths that go on. Joseph Smith was as shady as an oak tree.They probably take some sort of death oath. Why can't we see the ordinations that take place?!?!?! That is a big red flag to me.

I think you are right on.

Yes, why don't you see the ordinations? Never thought of that. But then again we are talking about Mormons- secrecy is the key.

I would guess that if they are in the top leadership of the LDS Church as apostles (the top 15) they are there because there is zero chance they would leave the church.
I'm convinced these men are total believers in all ways. It's their heritage, their family their religion, their tribe. They have been vetted over and over and over and have shown to be reliable and steadfast. It is their world, and their life and their family. They don't leave that.

Just because some people don't believe in the claims, doesn't mean that others are going to stop believing.

Mormonism is well established as a financial giant-empire as well as a religion that functions as a patriarchal, line of authority,generational,familial,societal tribe. That is one of the reasons why it's hard to leave it. It's not just a Sunday go-to-meeting-church, as we all know.

None of them were actually born and raised in TSCC with all the brainwashing that entails. I think many in the old days were viciously fighting over who gets the biggest slice of pie.

Most of the 15 have been "company" men either most or all of their lives. I would guess there is little chance of it happening today. There are too many perks for the 15 to leave.

But what about a death bed confession? Doesn't their spouse lose the corp dredit card once they croak? Having a spouse or descendant publish a tell all book after their death could do some damage, but if their descendents are placed in executive positions in church owned companies perhaps they wouldn't.

He (The potential bolter GA) knows right well that he’d be suicided by thugs from the MORMO lodge and perhaps some hired, natural-born killers would be dispatched to “use up“ some of his kin. Don’t count on any future heroes outta that Hive.

With all the perks that they get, and entangled business dealings and nepotism and all that, I can imagine another scenario where a GA ends up getting royally screwed in some inside business deal gone bad and is so ticked off that he apostasizes and uses some spiritual mumbo-jumbo as a cover story.

It would take some doing for a high level GA to apostasize loudly -- going on speaking tours and so forth -- rather than just slink away into the background and never be heard of again, which would be the more likely scenario. He'd have to really be motivated.

They already have apostasized. None of them practice "the principle" with multiple living women in the open, they publicly deny blood atonement as a doctrine, they quickly denounce faithfull saints who do practice true Celestial marriage and all of them endorse the idea that Lamanites are only among the principle ancestors of the American Indians and not the principal ancestors of the American Indians. The counts of apostasy against them continue and ard damning. Technically they are all public apostates according to original Morg theology, and very few morgbots know or even care. Lets face it, these mo fos have it made,they can collectively do whatever they wish and folks in the morg will still lick thier assholes and claim it tastes like honey.

dont know exactly, its hard to say, but it seems more likely that a wife would get unhappy and jump ship. which could be very damaging.

the boys are closely evaluated and have a long proven track history before they are selected for the very top,then they are constantly given re inforcement of their working associations and the adulation given to them by underlings.
the women dont get/have that. I am looking for a sister to defect first. maybe I am wrong. Interested in other's input on this too.