First, I would like to thank everyone for their point of view on this topic. I read everything that was written and considered all of the advice. It is great to get so many points of view. Sometimes people say things that you may not have thought of. So thank you everyone.

Since the RS pres. has never talked to me EXCEPT at her place of work, I decided that she is perfectly ok with that. She personally has never been to my house or called me. Even though my phone # and address are no big secret. She has no problem invading my space while I am minding my own business and going about my shopping.

It was perfectly normal for me to be buying a turkey today. So I did. As usual she made a point of talking to me. Small talk. I asked her if she knew that I had VT on Saturday. She admitted that she did. I asked her why, since I had told her I didn't want them. She said the bishop had the final say (passed the buck) and that it was his decision. I then asked her if she had told him about our conversation. She said that she did. I told her that I didn't appreciate the VT showing up unannounced. Especially since they had my phone # and could have called me first. I told her this felt extremely disrespectful. I asked her how she would like it if Someone did that to her. Her response was that she wouldn't mind! I told her that is where her and I part ways. I DO mind. And that me and DH didn't appreciate it and expect them to respect our privacy and requests from now on.

She then asked me why my husband had a problem with it. (wow)
I told her he was so pissed he threatened to have his name removed from the records (true). She seemed quite shocked by that. I took advantage of that. Asked her if she wanted to be responsible for causing that.(:))She insisted that she never intended for that to happen. I said: I'm sure that's true. I want to make it perfectly clear I will never accept VT again, so please don't send them. When you talk to the bishop, you can tell him we don't want ANYONE bothering us. This means anyone from church. Missionaries,HT, VT, or anyone else that wants to make us a project!

She seemed very upset and embarrassed. I then wished her a Happy Thanks Giving, and left to pay for my Turkey.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I suspect a phone call from the bishop is the next event. What do you think?

YES!!!

Sorry...I'm new here. (not really)

Just exactly how does one "piss up a rope"*?

Are there girl/boy instructions...I somehow missed in MIA?

Just askin...

peace out...sal

*Don't get me wrong...I mean...I've tried it before...it's just never worked out so well...lack of stream and such...just askin...

Actually....YOU HAVE THE FINAL SAY

If you don't want the VTs to come, then NO is NO!

(Of course you will have to tell this to their faces when they show up at your house.)

mia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I asked her how she
> would like it if Someone did that to her. Her
> response was that she wouldn't mind!

Give me her address and I'll be right over with mountains of evidence that the Church is not true.

leverage, coercion aren't needed with a Desireable Product.

If they woke up, they'd realize they're peddling bat guano.

Rock on!

Clear communication, and nobody's job was in peril(as if!).
Politely executed.

As a former Bishop all I can say is the Bishop was way off base--was just wrong to overrule the RSP. Bishops are supposed to honor those that do not want contact--period.

"She wouldn't mind"--give me a break. She should have admitted she was wrong and apologized. She was wrong, even by Mormon standards

You handled this so well mia

I should not be surprised by what happened by the church leaders-I have seen this kind of thing so many times but the rudeness cannot ever be excused.

I think you did a great service to yourself and everyone under that bishop. It sounds like maybe the RS president might actually consider that pushing the VTs on some people might not bring them back into the fold, but rather push them even farther away. I don't know why so many of them miss that possibility.

Love the way you handled it. No drama, just a good conversation. Perhaps she actually HEARD what you were saying! We can only hope so. Bravo!

[Please ignore duplicate post. It told me there was an error so I thought this didn't post the first time. Oopsie!]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 01:12AM by duffy.

Do the locals a favor and get yourself off their rolls.

There is often talk here like "don't even recognize their authori-tay by resigning, that's a church action and by doing it you pander to their rules".

I disagree.

Voluntary Name Removal was not an option until it was imposed on the church by a court. Before that they only excommunicated you through a church court, their rules. No longer. Name removal is an action imposed on them by you, by virtue of legal precedent. The current requirements to resign/have your name removed were decided in court, including the requirement that you give them written notice and that they can verify your identity, and that they have 60 days to do it.
And, as long as you voluntarily REMAIN members, they may initiate church discipline if they wish, and it's legal. Yes, you can stop it in its tracks by resigning in the middle of it, but a record that it was started before you resigned still happens.
You CAN'T get your church record destroyed. It's not your legal right to make someone forget they knew you. They have the right to keep a record that you WERE a member and resigned, including if disciplinary action was started before you did.

The church is very unhelpful to local units regarding do-not-contact members. They don't take these records off local hands. They make the local unit keep track of them anyway. When I was EQP I had pages of DNCs assigned to myself and they were still counted in home teaching reports. The stake presidency said we could COUNT them as having been visited at the highest level of contact they would allow...in other words they may still be COUNTING you on their home teaching report!

Resigning forces the bishop and stake president to process your "request", which isn't a request at all but a legally actionable order. They can pretend the church invented it but they didn't. If the bishop and stake president bungle it then the membership records dept in SLC will contact them in your behalf...legally they have 60 days from getting written notice from you, whether it's the bishop, SP, or SLC.

Yes I know you're still counted in the fabled "14 million worldwide members" as a resigned member...but this is a powderkeg for the church and you're helping charge it up by joining the estimably 1 million resigned members the church is hiding. They can't hide a million people forever, and the only reason they get away with it is because there are a few million inactives as cover.

Believe me, I have researched all of the ins and outs of the process.

We have had a very busy life in the last year. Getting our names off the list has been at the bottom of our list.

Now that life events are calming down a bit, and the people in the ward are acting out,removing our names is beginning to take priority.

I wish they would give us the space we need. Alas that is NOT a trait of the Mormon church. I don't like to make any permanent decision under duress, but there are times when they foolishly insist that people do exactly that.

resigning went right to the top of my "to do" list, I went right to this site, that linked a simple form letter, got it made up, signed and sent it. What a relief!

It was worth the time it took because now my position was on the records, I actually kept it by the door in the event someone showed up.

The VT followed up the next month with a phone call (I guess before the resignation processed) and over the phone I told her "I resigned".

You were respectful and calm, and you got your point across. You also were able to get through to her and to make her think. Good for you!

P.S.

I should mention, I didn't think most of what she said was the truth. I think she is doing the best she can in a job she doesn't really want, but isn't allowed to say no to anyone. I really feel sorry for her. I would be so miserable in her shoes.

Lots & Lots of Mormons have been so throughly proagandized that they ONLY think in terms of "advancing the gospel/(churchco) that they'll NEVER think in terms of honoring the most basic of requests, because they don't consider them 'reasonable' or 'appropriate'.

Mormonism makes you 'King of the World'

So true.

When all the kings are in the same room sharing their testimony of the truthfulness of the untrue I can't help but think none of them are being 'reasonable'.

"She said the bishop had the final say (passed the buck) and that it was his decision."

To that I would have said: "No, he does not have the final say. I have the final say, and I already told you my decision."

You handled it well. But why can't YOU tell the Bishop what you thought of the visit. It seems these bishops have other people do their dirty work. Go to the source. If you are afraid of his reaction, then just leave and never go back to such a place. Be DONE with it. People who do not respect your space have no business being part of your life.

Nothing will change until names have been removed. I dealt with that for two years and three moves, one across country. I didn't stop getting visitors until I had my name removed from church records. You are a member and they will continue to show up. They do not respect people's wishes to be left alone, especially members on record.

Bottom line is this. ONLY you and your husband have any legal or moral right to determine who visits your home.

You have every right to buy a turkey and chat with the clerk about whatever you choose. Had she never talked about church participation or put the screws on you, it might not have been fair to bring up the subject at her workplace, but it was her choice to use the setting this way and to discount your rights.

She bullied and disrespected you and your privacy. I would hope your conversation taught her about the realities of life and gave her a new understanding of where you're coming from.

Excellent performance today. Congratulations.

Sadly, that is the only way that Mormons start to listen.
You did well.

Bravo. Well played. :o)

I imagine the Bishop is pushing the visits so that they can brag about perfect VT and HT percentages in their ward.

Kudos to you Mia. You are one awesome person.

at least it was for my ex and I. I used the e-mail standard form and sent it off. Two days later, got a reply from the COB. The bishop came by a few weeks later--this guy is a good guy.

I didn't think I needed to resign either and didn't want to jump through their hoops--but I had a few of those moments last December and I felt I needed to make a statement.

It was a completely painless and easy thing to do. Just fire off that e-mail. I'm sure someone has the form letter and the e-mail address. (I no longer do.)

Congratulations, you handle the situation very well, assertive but not aggressive or emotional. Many times is easier to walk away than to confront and address the kind of behaviour that is common in the church, but I think that it is important to address it and send the person back to their place. I'm sure you feel good, the RS is learning that no means no and many like myself are reading your account with admiration and respect. It's a win/win/win.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

D =)

you might try calling the Jehovah's Witnesses and request they visit her at her home. See how she likes then.

lol

I'm sure she would understand why the Jehovahs Witnesses who claim to be the only True Church on the face of the earth and led by men who receive revelation are lovingly trying to safeguard her eternal well being.

Why, if you don't want visits, do you not have your records pulled? Its easy and can be done online.

One other question. I welcome the home teachers over to my house and told them I would love to join any charity projects they might have as long as I am helping ppl instead of donating money or time to the church.

I also stipulated that I would not talk Ensign magazine with them but that I would love to discuss Polyandry, "By His Own Hand", "Rough Stone Rolling", and any other truthful fact based information about that church that will not be discussed during preisthood, sacrament or sunday school.

Apostacy is not discussing truth even if Boyd K Packard doesn't think its useful. ;)

She said she's had other priorities, isn't quite ready for that step, but plans on doing it.

This reminds me of when I happily posted about meeting an exmo my age and in very similar circumstances to me. I was thrilled to have such a kindred spirited new friend. I introduced her to the board and mentioned that she'd been harassed for forty years, I'd mentioned resination, and she hadn't done it.

She came on the board to lurk and was trashed by a slew of posters it was her own fault for refusing to resign. NO, she had only heard for that possibility a couple of hours earlier and was not yet ready and hadn't had time to do it.

Exmos don't always come here know about all of the subject we discuss. They can't already have done something that seems obvious in hindsight. They don't have to apologize or explain why they don't already know answers and haven't already recovered to anyone's else's specifications.

My friend never came back to the board. I hope she's forgiven me for that one and only bad experience at RfM. And by the next time I saw her, she had resigned although it didn't eliminate contact 100% as hoped.

When I read that, I immediately thought about how mormons try to refute accusations of sexism by claiming than women hold leadership positions. This is a potent example of just how little influence women in these positions really exert.