Last Tuesday evening the Mrs. and I went to tithing settlement. At first I wasn't going to go but when my wife asked me, I changed my mind. A letter was written by me on how I feel and why I no longer believe. I let my wife read and I asked how she felt (whether she she would like to be present when I spoke to the bish).

Being a TBM, she said she wanted to be present and maybe the bishop could help me find my way back.........

So, we wait a bit in the foyer of the church when we finally get called in to the bishop's office. We talk a bit when I pull out my letter and let the bishop know that I was going to read him something. It basicaly started off by saying I no longer support nor believe in this church. I stated my sources were JoD, History of the church, BoM etc.. not anti-Mormon material. I talked about JS, false prophesies etc...

When I looked up briefly to catch the bishop's glance, his eyes were huge.

I continued on with the letter. At the bottom I let him know it's not a personal attack against any individual attending church here (where i live) and that I had made friends. I just did not believe in the church itself nor the higher leadership.. I also asked for him to respect my beliefs.

When I was done he said he would not try to change my beliefs, however he knew it was true because he went on a mission, he believed. I told him I was not there to change his belief, just as he shouldn'ttry to change mine.

I also told him I would never force my wife to not come to church and that I supported her, albeit only by a small amount, with her titihing.

He said he hoped to see me at functions, or just around in general, and wished me well. And we were done.

I felt good afterward. The truth sets you free!

Anyway, wanted to share :)

to deal with a person who is confident, knows the truth and the facts about the cult, and who isn't in the mood to listen to some damn fairy tales about the restorded Church and priesthood authority that never existed in the frist place let alone could be restored.

NO, you won't be leading back to the kool-aid stand.

Good for you.

Gees I wish I was that brave but I want to maintain good relations with TBM DH.

Honestly, how does your DH not know of your disaffection at this point?! My DH is TBM too but living a lie made me miserable and sick inside. I'm very lucky to have an awesome, understanding spouse and to each his own, but I honestly don't understand your level of involvement with your level of disaffection.

No judgment. I just seriously don't get it.

Mormonism can ONLY exist in a 'groupthink' environment.

when left to themselves, or in a situation where critical thinking, open-mindedness or just plain common sense are allowed, the weirdness of Mormonism JUMPS OFF THE PAGE.

just sayin'

That is great news. Enjoy your freedom!

That took courage - BRAVO!!

I'd be interested to know your wife's response to your letter. Sounds like the Bishop practically shooed you out of his office--he didn't want to deal with any of your letter or you, which is fine, I guess.

The part about you supporting your wife and helping her with tithing was interesting too. What sort of percentage of help with tithing are we talking about here? Maybe the Bishop doesn't care so long as the dough is rolling in and so long as he knows he doesn't have a problem (read: angry apostate) on his hands, someone who will actively work on the wife.

My concern is that once we get "free" of the Bishop, the immediate pull of the church on our time and effort--we stop going and stop participating--that these bastards don't really care. For instance, I haven't heard from my Bishop in almost two years, except one social function where he greeted me in the most perfunctory manner possible--like I was a stranger. (Remember, Mormons don't shun.) This guy and I worked together for years, but I stop coming to church and I cease to exist.

But my real point is that once we get "free" we are still under pressure from family, from the spouse, and from kids if they are involved. E.g., I am constantly coming up against the phenomenon of the family having "church" plans, and because I don't do church I DON'T GET INFORMED that they will be gone. Or I get informed perfunctorily, without discussion of course. The message is, Church comes first. How many years of that, how many missed social events with the family, how many missed weddings, until one either starts to feel one should go back to church or one decides the family is too unhappy of a place to remain?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 01:15PM by derrida.

Am I not missing something really big here?

High profile Mormons are demanding that questions not be asked of their religion, really because it is soo concocted and creepy that it really cannot be discussed without breaking out in unstoppable laughter.

The lines that bring the nods of approval in Crash and Testimoney meeting would not be met with the same approval outside the world of cult groupthink.

End of year, writing a letter, inviting my wife to come speak with me to the bishop, and dropping the bomb. Then I resigned the first few days into the year in early January 2009.

Fawn Brodie said that when she left Mormonism that she felt a relief not unlike taking off a large wool overcoat in the midsummer heat.

I would love to know how you got over the hurdle with your wife.

Have YOU gone on a mission?

I found that statement that the bishop made, not surprising, but very interesting if you had gone on a mission.

Yes, bishops have no answers other than their feelings "I went on a mission so I know it's true" or "I testify I know by the spirit..." It wouldn't surprise me to find out that bishops in general know very little of the information you presented. After all, these aren't men who graduated from a theological seminary or anything. They are just the most faithful and most financially set of the members. In a way I feel sorry for them because they are suddenly being confronted by a boatload of irrefutable facts they never heard before and they are in a leadership position where all eyes are on them. It's hard enough to go from faithful Mormon to questioning Mormon to realizing it's all a hoax. With everyones' eyes on you it has to be doubly hard. They are supposed to be the standard bearers after all.

Well, good luck to them - It's a job I would never, never want. And good luck to you because you are free and that feels better than any Mormon "feeling" ever.

That's what made it so eye-popping to us when we discovered it.

And other religions? Mormons could never hope to make a comparison because it's all but forbidden to talk about anything other than smack when it comes to other religions. I often feel like an ass for presuming to know about Catholics at one time because I went on a mission to Italy. I know so much more now, but still don't know nothin' really.

Mormons actually know very little about religion.

I made a statement to the missionaries one time that I felt it was incorrect to refer to them as 'elders' since the word 'elder' denotes age, experience, and knowledge- something they certainly are not.

Instead of using the word 'knowledge' regarding religion, the word 'indoctrination' would be more appropriate. It is not knowledge if you have never read, and been counseled against, any information that is not propaganda for the organization.

If they do consider themselves to have expertise in Christianity, ask them the difference between a Lutheran, a Presbyterian, and a Methodist. I would be thinking that might make them scratch their heads a little. Then add some others such as Hindu, Amish, Hare Krishna etc.

Mormons are not experts, they are simply under the influence of a very powerful cult, many since birth, and have been taught to never question authority.

+1

mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When I was done he said he would not try to change
> my beliefs, however he knew it was true because he
> went on a mission, he believed.

My comeback to such things is "Bishop, that's not a statement about the Church, that's a statement about you. It has nothing to do with either the Church being true or with me."

"...however he knew it was true because he went on a mission, he believed."

That's what struck me, too. Mormons are never trained to respond to scriptural or historical arguments at all. It is always just the same canned "testimony" response.

Mike, Congratulations for knowing the truth and having the courage to declare it! However, you need to consider what Derrida wrote. It isn't over. After all, you're still paying $100 a month, and you are still supporting your wife by attending. A CULT is not that easy to get away from.

Thanks everyone!!

Derrida-- The wife felt it was my right to tell the bishop how I felt. Even if we don't see eye to eye, we love each other and we have agreed to disagree. As to tithing, just under $100/month. Would love to put that money in to savings instead... I am sorry that your ex-bishop is that way. A shame when people become blinded by a cult.

Cludgie-- Wow!! The stories are almost the same. How has it been working out for you and the Mrs?

Raptor Jesus-- I haven't been on a mission. Was a convert. Had that "good feeling" in my stomach when I joined until I got married and found out my side of the family couldn't come. That's when I began asking questions.

I haven't been in this cult as long as most were that post on here. It's been 3 years since I was baptized. Just thankful my eyes were opened. The posters on this site have helped a ton!

I can't say that things are absolutely perfect. It did do some damage, but even more damage with a sibling than in my own home. And I'm good to go with all my kids. Thanks for asking.

I had it planned for some time--about 2-3 years--but not like it turned out. I had to suddenly take control of the situation and explain it all because the bishop suddenly called me to a position. I was forced to man-up.

baura-- That's a good point. I left out that the bishop told me that one day a miracle may happen and I would come back.

I bit my tongue when he said that... I wanted to tell him that, that miracle goes in both directions and he may see the light as well.

Thanks CA girl!!

Stumbling-- it wasn't easy and we still bump heads from time to time. She is a very devout member... a Molly if you will. We have a daughter and we both love her and want what's best for her. I see that being a stumbling block in the future. Howwver, we also love each other very much. The talks we have are interesting and instead of getting emotional, she actually thinks about what it is we talk about (other religions, philosophy, astronomy, politics etc..)

I am hoping that one day she will see the light.

motherwhoknows, You and Derrida are right. The bishop told my wife that since she has no income, she is considered a full tithe payer. I already made the hint to my wife that the money could be used elsewhere.

I will take is slowly with her as it was never promised that I would give her money for tithing forever.

How it will end.... only time will tell. The cult has a strong hold on her. I gave her my recommend months ago when I told her I didn't believe. I did that because I love her. She told me only before we saw the bish that she gave my recommend to him.

Wish she had told me before....

cludgie, I hope things will get better!!! Glad to hear things are good with the kids. In my limited experience the only thing that helps is that I know we love another and hope that time will set her free. I hope the same for you as well :)

I never have understood this transfixion with a belief system. When I first started to hang around LDS peeps I thought it was me that was missing out on something. They seemed happy, eager to help and dedicated. Then I joined and started to hear the stories about family problems, jobs etc... I was ignored.. it was a sham, a cover, to get me as any other investigator in.

Yet I ignored that. It took seeing my mom in tears, knowing she couldn't see me getting married, to start asking questions.

Brainwashing is powerful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 10:01PM by mike.

Now you have to sit back and roll with any of the weird surprises thrown at you by gossiping bishops and ward members. Other people here will tell you that the right thing to do is to be friendly, open, and honest, and to not give anyone any ammunition by which to judge you. Also, they would probably say to love your wife and not change who you are.

One weird thing that happened with us was that the bishop set an arbitrary amount--$200-- that my wife had to pay each month to retain a temple recommend. Paying her way to salvation. God be praised.

If it is true, and you hate it, why bother?

If it is untrue and you like it, why not do it?

I like going to football games. Are they true? I don't know.

My mom keep trying to convince me that the church is true, so I will come back. I could care less.

For me, doing church for eternity and playing god is the worst kind of hell I can imagine.

You do what you like, and I'll do what I like.