I wanted to answer your question but the original thread is closed, and so was the follow-up thread by the time I got to it.

Yes, the only Jews over here are of the orthodox persuasion. The secular Jews do not usually identify with their Jewish roots or religion. So to me, "Jews" are orthodox Jews. Inhabitants of Israel are always referred to as Israelis over here, never Jews.

Thanks for taking the time to follow up on that. This provides great context, and I get your perspective and where you were coming from now! Here in the US, the Orthodox are kind of cloistered and secular jews are the norm. Israel actually has little respect for US secular jews, and recently sponsored an ad campaign to try to get israeli's in the US to return to israel so not to corrupt their children with US jew culture. Here's an article if you are interested: http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=247915

I looked up some numbers about Jews in Holland:

Only 55% consider themselves Jewish;

57% is not religious at all, another 17% is not religious but honours some traditions;

Only 27% define themselves as religious (as opposed to ethnic) Jews;

38% have had one or more sons circumcised; 25% had one or more of their children do bar/bat mitsva;

29% have experienced anti-semitism in the past 10 years;

52% wouldn't mind if the Jewish community as such would cease to exist in Holland.

So it seems "secular Jews are the norm" here just as much as in the US, except that they are invisible as Jews because they don't organize (or even identify) themselves as such.

Also, the orthodox Jews aren't "kind of cloistered" in Holland; e.g., only 12% have attended a Jewish school ("the" Jewish school I should say, because we only have one). They participate in Dutch society just like any other group. They are, in fact, the only ones who speak out on non-political Jewish issues, hence my association of "Jews" with "orthodox Jews".

Finally, I also learned today that the term "Jewish lobby" is deemed highly offensive and anti-semitic, which I didn't know - so I apologize for using it.

That info is interest, thanks!

NP about the "jewish lobby" comment, and sorry I called you anti-semetic. I think we were both suffering from cultural bias due to our locations. I hate being "that" American, just assuming you were from the US and knew what things are like here. Sorry for that!