My best friend Sandy is an ex-m like all of you here. She is getting mentally tortured by Joe, her mormon husband, day in and day out. He is pressing her to choose between a temple marriage and a divorce. He sits her down for hours of talk about how bad he wants it and that it is the most important thing in his life and that his life is meaningless with the temple marriage (meaningless any way in my opinion).

The funny thing is that three years ago after a whole year of seperation (she moved out after he had an affair) he begged to get back together with her. She clearly told him to really think about his life's priority because there is no way she will go anywhere near that church. At that time he swore that being with her was more important than anyting in the world. She was naiive enough to believe that jerk so they got back together. And now all in a sudden, he wants temple marriage. ha!

Sandy married Joe shortly after she was converted to M 10 years ago. She was lured into the mormon church by some beautiful lies you probably all have heard, but it only took her one year to figure out this is just a well-designed brainwasher. It turns people into effective money-making machines which multiply on their own. She was smart enough to quit the mormon church right away without wasting any time in their temple cult. (she should have quit that moron husband at the same time!). Joe was not too serious about church going either for years until one day he fell in love with another woman (maybe mormon?). And all in a sudden, he was all about the church and righteousness. He got himself into that temple and declared the answer he got there was to leave her for his spiritual welling-being, because she has not been a good influence to him. Luckily enough, they didn't have any kids, so she packed up and moved to another state, waiting for him to send the divorce paper. The paper never came, but he did (I guess the other woman didn't work out.). Instead of being a man and admitting he was sorry for being a jerk and telling a shameless lie, he said he got a different answer from God that they should get back together. She questioned why God keeps on changing his mind. he said the first time it was the devil. (I think he was the devil). Being a forgiving person, Sandy got back with him after she made it clear that she will never be mormon again and he was totally cool with it. And now what?! Temple marriage!

He won't stop talking to her on this subject day and night, I mean, early morning or midnight, even when she is recovering from a surgery. She already couldn't sleep well at night and frequently getting pulled out of bed to discuss a disgusting topic at 2 or 3 AM really doesn't help. She already agreed to consider it, but he wants her to do it right away. He dragged her to church on Sunday for a few weeks and he wants her to start the preparation right away. She wants to puke at the sight of their books or magazines. I think this is nothing but abuse. I've never been to the mormon church. Is this common conduct among the mormon men? What can Sandy do?
Please help, please!!!

Sandy can either continue to put up with the abuse or leave him.
I could make that sound a little less blunt, but that's what it boils down to, and she needs to decide which way she wants to go.

He is manipulative and abusive to be doing that to her. She needs to leave the ASS HAT and get on with her life.

Unfortunately, at the present time she's doing her very best impression of a doormat.

You might try making observations and asking questions that get her to think a little bit. I would make the observation to her that being offered the choice between temple marriage or divorce is not a very loving thing for a husband to do. I would also point out to her that if she gives in to this demand, it's unlikely to be the last deal-breaking demand that her husband makes of her. Is she ready for a lifetime of extortion?

I agree that the lady should break and run and never look back.

By the way, there is a beatitude for that: Blessed are the door matts, for they shall be walked upon.

Even if she decided to join the church, she can't go to the temple until she has been a member for a year. Her husband should know this.

This douchebag has what is scientifically known as "shit for brains". Tell her to get the hell out.

By the way, sleep deprivation was Stalins favourite technique for indoctrination and torture. If nothing else, get her to get away from him, vacation or whatever, so she can get some sleep and think about it.

Sleep deprivation is certainly a powerful tactic of control. She seems to be getting worn down by it already. Her husband appears to be spiritually abusing Sandy along with all the other abuse. Can you get her away from him for a while so she can think clearly? My hunch is he would fight against that, but he seems to be flooding her with abusive manipulation, and she may drown in it.

Your friend already knows what she should do. Tell her to follow her heart! She is in denial that she should stay with this jerk, for any reason. I always say, "When in doubt--get more information." She should read about narcissism. She will recognize that her husband is a narcissist, and perhaps a sociopath (I don't know him, but his behavior indicates that.) She should talk to his siblings, co-workers, friends. He has probably behaved badly in the past.

Your friend knows that this creep has no communication with God or the Devil, either one. He is lying to her! A cheater is also a liar, right? How can this man just get away with adultery?

Abusers often blame their victims. It is sad that your friend feels that any of this is her fault. Actually, the relationship is not about her at all--it is all about HIM. A good example of that is his lack of empathy for her when she was recovering from surgery. Narcissists have zero empathy. This spoiled child of a man is getting away with unacceptable behavior.


It is hard for submissive people to assert themselves. She can read "Assertiveness Training for Women," or, "When I Say NO I Feel Guilty." This will help her to move on in the future.

As for right now, Sandy needs to be very, very CAREFUL not to aggravate this abuser. It seems like he will not let her go. She should move away, if possible, back home to her parents, or in with roommates or other people around. She might get a police restraining order. This sort of behavior can escalate into violence.

Please read my words: I think it is a violent act to drag a sick person out of bed. This is the first indicator I had that my ex-husband was violent. I had a strep infection, and a very high fever, that caused me to pass out. He kept shaking and slapping me awake, yelling at me, "How DARE you fall asleep when I'm talking to you!" He also quoted the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132 to me. If you think there's no connection between Mormonism and the abuse of women, you must read that scripture!

Spousal abuse just gets worse over time--never better. There is only a 2% chance of an abuser being cured. Of the 2% that stop their abusive behavior, they still keep their same basic personality problems and bad attitude. Sad, but true, once a jerk, always a jerk.

Sandy needs support! She can't endure this alone. The Mormon church offers no support, and it actually condones abuse. She needs a non-Mormon therapist.

She must NOT get pregnant!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2011 08:17PM by forestpal.

I agree with you that it is terribly abusive to wake someone up and drag that person out of bed when she is trying to rest and heal after severe illness or surgery. It's unbelievably cruel and lacking in empathy.

She has several options - stay and keep taking the abuse. Stay but lay down the law and tell him to knock it off - this could have a good result or a negative one - most likely a negative one. Or she can leave the bastard and have a good life and find someone that cares and accepts her for who she is and will love her the way she deserves.

It all boils down to what she believes she deserves and what she wants IMO.

Clearly, the man does not respect her, or her rights.
She needs to find a safe place to live and get away with him as he doesn't know how to treat her well.
She has to learn to say: NO and mean it and tell him to SHUT UP and leave her alone.
Or she can just leave him.

She will never be happy with this man. She needs to select the divorce option he is giving her and move on with her life. Life is way too short to spend it with a loser. Good luck!

Everything else is a side issue. She should run from him as soon as possible. A man who does not love a woman but is pressuring her has an ulterior motive.

Think. Is she expecting an inheritance? Is he climbing the Mormon hierarchy laddar? Is he opening a new business in the Morridor? Is he applying for acceptance to the bar? Does he want to be made partner and he's in Utah? A board of directors? Is he angling for a promotion and the owner of the company is a TBM? Has he written a Mormon book? Is there some other reason he needs to LOOK good?

Is it possible he has his eye on another woman who is sealed to someone else? Is there some reason he wants to bind your friend more tightly to him, such as he might believe he is going to prison, he might have a diagnosis for a sexually contracted disease, he might be dying?

Are his children old enough to threaten him?

Anagrammy

If this jackass had an ounce of love for Sandy, he'd be taking care of her and making sure that she had a comfortable, anxiety-free recovery from surgery. Instead he's hounding her while she's vulnerable. He may be pathological, he may have an ulterior motive, but whatever the case, he's a selfish pig.

My apologies to donkeys, dogs, and swine for referring to them in the same post as this lout.

What kind of job does he hold that gives him the time to talk to her incessantly?

He could be mentally ill and should be evaluated. Bipolar comes to mind right away.


Your friend needs to decide how much of this behavior she can take before she says ENOUGH.

yah... yah... yah .... somehooowwwww the abusive controling MORmON cult fosters abusive controling behavior in its members. Imagine that!

Disclaimer: I am about to make some stuff up. I could be totally off-base.

Here's what I THINK is happening: I think Dude went to bishop and confessed his affair. I think he was told that, in order to repent, he must marry his wife in the temple. Because mormon bishops often believe that everything can be fixed by going to the temple.

So I think DH is trying to do penance for his guilt over cheating on his wife. He thinks she won't divorce him if he gets her sealed to him. Once she's sealed, he can lie, cheat, and steal all he wants and he will have her trapped, so she won't leave the marriage. In his twisted little mind, that is.

I think it's a desperate ploy to save his marriage because he has no real coping tools and refuses to take responsibility for his own actions. In true narcissistic fashion, he's making it all about himself.

Hopefully, she will get tired of this crap and leave him again, this time for good.

I think your friend should do everything in her power, even give her very life in defending the marriage covenant she made with this man. Nothing in this world, not even abuse or infidelity would justify her in leaving him. If she didn't want to stick it out for life she should never have gotten with him in the first place. If he hurts her, abuses her, tortures her, or whatever she must realize that she brought this upon herself and since she made her bed she should just go right on ahead and lie in it.

Just kidding. She should leave the jerk. No question. Life's too short for all that bulls**t.

Obviously everyone on this forum is going to say that she should leave him. Of course you already know that. You also know that you have a limited chance to do this.

A couple of other possible ideas:

1) They could start counseling - of course a non-mormon counselor is necessary.

2) She needs to change the dynamic of her relationship so that she has some control:

2a) She needs to learn some skills to stand up for herself. She needs equal time to talk about what she wants out of the marriage.

2b) She needs to set definite rules. Things like: "we're not talking about this anymore". Then if he breaks the rule she gives him one firm warning. Beyond that she leaves the house for a night or two. And only comes back after he apologizes and admits he is the one that is wrong.

2c) Next time he gives he threatens her with divorce call his bluff. Tell him "I love you I'd like to be married to you, but clearly you don't respect me or love me enough to care about how I feel about this. So I really have no choice but to choose divorce." Then back up her things and leave at leat for a couple of nights. If he comes crawling to her apologizing the power in the relationship just shifted so he can't abuse her - then keep it clear that she is the one choosing to keep him around, not vise-versa. If he doesn't come crawling back to her, problem solved.

I've mentioned this in another post, but I highly recommend reading Dear Prudence on slate.com. About half of her advice is on how to avoid being the doormat and how to word and approach things so that you don't get walked all over but don't have to be rude/confrontational/uncomfortable doing it.

She just needs to leave.

As for the whole developing her own skills, and getting her own power, I have a sister who is in an abusive relationship with her husband, both TBMs. They started a trucking company together, but hubby was too busy sitting on his butt to ever get involved, so my sister ended up running the whole thing, and making a very good job of it. Well, that was until hubbie realized he wasn't the breadwinner no more, and so couldn't be a good Mormon priesthood holder, so he started making her sit at home with the kid while he ran the trucking company into the ground.

You can't have an equal relationship with an abuser. Whatever power you gain, they will find a way to break. It's just in their nature.

He's mentally unstable, and bordering on the insane...

If so, she should pack up and leave until she has recovered. And she should make it clear that if he doesn't stop harrassing her about it, that he is deciding to end the marriage.

I don't know what to say, I just want to put my foot up this guys A$$!!! I think there is some good advice in this thread for you,which is good 'cause...I don't even have words!!