Because I couldn't get enough time off from work to join him, my boyfriend and I are spending the holidays separately with our respective families.

So today, darling bf and I were on the phone talking when he said, "My mother brought up your Mormonism again. She thinks that you're still highly influenced by Mormonism."

I did a double-take and asked how she figured that was so. He told me she felt that because, a few months ago, I told her that I had sent the Mormons a formal letter of resignation and kept their response, it meant that I was still under their influence!

Fortunately, darling bf was able to explain to her that I formally resigned because otherwise the church would have kept bugging me and that the church's letter sits in a binder on a shelf along with a bunch of other old letters I keep just in case I need them for legal reference or such.

Then, mother of darling bf says, "Well, I still think if he weren't gay, he'd still be a Mormon and have a Mormon wife and five children."

[facepalm]

I explained to darling bf that when I was a believer that I fully expected to live my life as a celibate homosexual and that that I was willing to toe the church's line, up until I stopped believing.

I very specifically did not come out to most people until after I left the church, in the hope that they wouldn't confound my real reason for leaving, viz. that the LDS Church is a fraudulent crock, with the one people might assume -- that "I just wanted to sin". I explained that I could have just as easily chosen to sin while still in the faith.

Fortunately, darling bf, whom I love very dearly, gets all that. Family of darling bf might take a little longer. :)

Tyson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2011 07:28PM by Tyson Dunn.

You keep EVERYTHING! And unlike me, um, you can find things later :P. Hey, at least she is trying :)

Admittedly, yes, they are trying, and they were very welcoming when we visited them together a few months back. I am very fortunate that way.

Even my family seems to be softening up a little bit - I think it helps that I'm not any different than I was before my boyfriend and I moved in together. Actually, scratch that - I'm happier, and I think it shows.

And things are really great between darling bf and me, so I count myself a happy man. :)

Tyson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2011 06:52PM by Tyson Dunn.

Good for you for figuring it out. I get so happy anytime I hear anyone does. I would love to know more about how you did that. And...how on earth you thought you were going to stay celibate!?!?

One of my partner's old friends from childhood predicted I would be going back to the church soon. They always do she said. Ha Ha and Ha. I've been out of the church for thirty eight years and we've been together 30.

You are going to be getting that til the day you die probably. The funny thing is, we get the "he'll go back to the church someday" thing more from non-mormons--as a warning. Weird.

Years ago, it was a little true. That was before the internet and the information age. Now when you leave, you know exactly why, there's nothing muddy about it. Only a fool would go back once you have the facts.

Back then, a lot of it had to be gut instinct. I've got the combination of both now, and that is good.

Have a great holiday.

I lost my job several years ago, and I went to the bishop for access to the church's jobs database. I didn't ask him for money and even explicitly told him I didn't need any because I had savings.

Well, he lorded it over me that I wasn't going to church enough - which was true: I didn't have a ride; I couldn't afford to take taxis; and the members who had been taking me complained about having to take me. He didn't want to hear any of that and decided that until I could get to church regularly, I could do without the jobs database. I walked home three miles from the church that day and decided that if this were really Christ's church, that sort of thing shouldn't happen.

So, I started to study all the issues I had "put on the shelf". Since I like languages, I was really turned on by the Book of Abraham issues. I even bought myself a textbook on reading Egyptian hieroglyphics. I looked at what Joseph Smith said the translation was, then I looked at a modern translation by Robert Ritner of the University of Chicago. There was no question, Smith's "translation" was pure fantasy.

My heart sank, but the idea that Smith was a conman made the most sense. The force of that argument swept aside any spiritual feelings and laid the groundwork for my leaving.

For a while, I thought I might be able to stay in the church for the social side of things, after all, most of my friends were still Mormon, but that wasn't particularly satisfying. Besides, I was older than most of my single adult ward - they were mostly YSAs - and I had grown tired of their heterosexual meat market atmosphere.

The only thing that really kept me in the Church were the missionaries. I had enjoyed my mission, and I had been a good ward missionary and ward mission leader a few times, really trying to be a help to the young men and women serving in our wards. The missionaries kept visiting me after I went fully inactive, but eventually they too stopped coming. Once that thread was broken, I figured all my ties to Mormonism were cut, and I resigned.

Tyson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2011 07:47PM by Tyson Dunn.

I also think there may be some underlying issue with the LDS or being gay that is finding a way out though what she said. If she does have some unresolved issue, it may just be her way of trying to come to terms with some internal conflict, or it may be something that is repressed.

It may be a sign to tread diplomatically.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2011 07:48PM by MJ.

Besides, as I note below, they seem to like me well enough so far, so I'm not too worried.

Tyson

Tyson,

I'm guessing I'll be dealing with that dilemma the rest of my life (i.e., people thinking I left the church because I'm gay).

The only people I REALLY care about "convincing" that it's because the church is a crock, are my kids & their spouses & grandchildren.

I'm hoping some day I'll have that chance.

I see the question of whether LD$ doctrine is true or not as a more basic question than whether I'm gay or not.

Meanwhile, I'm MUCH happier now than I was, and that's proof enough for this "poof." :)

I DID leave the church because I am gay. And I knew the church was wrong about it. So I started wondering what else they were wrong about. I'm so glad that I had an excuse to leave the church, which then freed me up for discovery and enlightenment.

Kind of like being a scientist and knowing that DNA evidence disproves the BoM, doesn't being gay disprove Mormonism's heterosexualcentric view?

The message I got as a gay man from the LDS church was effectively that being gay was my cross to bear, but that if I remained faithful, I would either "be healed" in this life or the hereafter. And if I had to wait until after, I would still be sealed to a worthy wife.

It was usually bound up with the flattery that they throw in about having been chosen in the preexistence to be tested more sorely for having been especially valiant. Of course, one has to wonder why a valiant premortal being would need to be tested more than a less valiant one. Hell, why isn't the preexistence enough for judgment? And then the reason of being able to overcome "sins of the flesh" is thrown in. Anyway, pretty soon you're in the deep weeds, and none of it really makes sense, but who admits that when you're so deeply invested in it being right?

Anyway, I didn't find gay to be a sufficient reason to leave, for all of that.

Tyson

She has issues.

Hopefully, you and your boyfriend can laugh at her self imposed mind stopper.

I think she's trying to wrap her mind around the whole thing, and it just isn't all that clear for her yet.

She was born in Europe and raised Catholic, though I'm pretty sure she's a non-believer now; whereas, my darling bf was born here in the United States and is an atheist like me.

He's only been out for about 2-3 years, though he's over 30, and I'm the first bf he brought home. He had a few others before me - none serious.

We now live together, and I'd say domesticity is surprisingly comfortable for both of us. I think it's because we carved out our own separate lives first, and we're used to doing for ourselves.

Anyway, I'm not dreadfully concerned. His parents accept me well enough, and that's a big enough deal for now. :)

Tyson

Tyson, You definitely know that the matters over who you are personally and the truthfulness about the LDS dogma are two very distinct matters. It's just a coincidence not of your choosing that these 2 matters intersected in your life to cause you pain. I suppose your life journey could've be worse. For example, you could've been born a stupid end user and that would've really sucked ;) It sounds like BF's mom will eventually figure it all out too just as BF has figured out that these 2 matters are distinct.

Interestingly (and also tragically) I think anyone who exits Mormonism has their interesting matters to deal with which intersect with this whole matter of whether or not the LDS dogma is the one/only way for humans to go in present times. That's because we are all human beings with a wide variety of interests/desires that frankly don't conform 100% to the collective dogma/culture created under the whims of the present-day 15 jellomasters and their predecessors. Thus anytime we have a conflict with this dogma/culture then they've set the tone that our conflicts are the problem and they get us to subconsciously dwell on them during our departure and in many ways beyond that exit just as you've demonstrated by this thread.

I've found myself reviewing my motivations - what I talk about, what I do, whom I tell what - and it's hard to rewrite a quarter-century of one's narrative to play down membership in the church.

A couple of things I've noticed:

1. Most people don't need the reasons you do what you do. I over-explain things. No one cares that much. Why do I speak a foreign language? Why do I do the job I do? Why do I live how I live? Pfft. Irrelevant.

2. I would probably have led those years pretty similarly without Mormonism. The stuff I really enjoy and care about now has visible antecedents in my teen years. Mormonism just put a weird twist or delay on them.

3. My darling boyfriend doesn't care about the fact that I was a Mormon. It's an interesting sidelight and one that allows him to ask me questions about some of the LDS he works around, but it's not a key. He'd care more if I weren't an atheist. :)

4. And I don't care (nor need to care) as much about Mormonism as I used to. I'm mostly on the board this weekend, because it's a holiday and my boyfriend and I are apart, and being at the family home is a bit dull. Otherwise, I don't come on here as frequently as I used to, because it's not all that important.

5. I am happy, and that's pretty cool.

Tyson

i am gay too but no boyfriend yet but their way of thinking is not going to make me never get one or try to get a wife just to fit their bigoted way - i really think of being a ex mormon in reality and follow jesus real teaching and real teaching does not hate gay people just because they are gay - read the 10 commandments and there is nothing there about being gay - with all the using god to hate and corruption i really follow the dharma buddhism way and if a church wants to hate me not following things that do not fit living that way then too bad - as long as do not force a person to be in a gay partnership and commit only to your partner then churches need to STAY OUT OF MY LIFE - if i can find the right guy either today or tomorrow then i will have him in my life - i only kind of stay around them since i keep getting a push like i am chosen to remind people of the true teaching of jesus

I was determined to make being gay and being in the church work. But if I can offer you a bit of hindsight wisdom: I didn't find that staying around was terribly useful. I can say that I have positively affected people in their journey out of the church, and I may actually have the opportunity to do that today, but I think that it was a terrible cost on my happiness to keep bearing that burden.

Other folks from the board who know me off-board can vouch that leaving the church, growing on my own, and finding my darling boyfriend have made me far happier than I ever was. We aren't responsible for fixing everyone else, and we especially shouldn't do that, if in the process we wind up breaking ourselves.

I wish you all the best in following your path and hope that you find someone as wonderful as my guy.

Tyson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2011 01:33PM by Tyson Dunn.

As painful as it was, I had planned to remain mormon even though I was gay. The brainwashing had been thorough and the pain was almost insurmountable. I was ripped to shreds by the end.

But it was realizing that a prophet was lying that freed my mind. The realization was as euphorically beautiful as the pain had been ugly.

It doesn't matter if you left intellectually, or because you were extremely unhappy, or just bored with it though, any way you can get out it is just as sweet. When you're drowning in the middle of the ocean, wad of floating garbage is just as valuable as a life raft.

...crickets...

And again, I'm cutting her slack. The one thing I've learned about darling bf's mother and father is that they will return to points in conversation that were dropped days, weeks, or even months ago. :)

Tyson

Members struggle with their own testimonies when someone leaves. Your experience just proves, again, that people believe what they want to believe.

You leaving because you are gay is such a nice tidy explanation because none of it applies to them.

You leaving because you researched the history and found out the Church has been misrepresenting itself on many fronts...now, that's threatening because the church's truthfulness or not applies to them as well.

Anagrammy

The comments I've gotten is that my ex CHOSE to be gay AFTER we went inactive--you know that spiraling out of control and being under satan's influence.

There are still comments that shock me.

But then I also chose to sin because I didn't resign until after I had become an adulteress. Oh well . . .

Of course you are still influenced by the Mormon church on some level. We all are. Just like the guy who gets mugged, is influenced by it the rest of his life, or the woman who gets raped, or a soldier who saw his best friend killed in battle. Just because something influences us in some small way, doesn't mean we like that thing. It just means we have decided we do not wish to be victimized again.