I recently made a post regarding my personal attitude about receiving gifts. I expressed that I choose to be grateful for anything I am given rather than to be upset by it.

I was immediately met with a barrage of posts angry that I was telling people how to feel and insisting that there is no reason to be grateful for unwanted contact.

I have been thinking about this exchange, because I both understand the reaction but still hold my opinion.

First, I was not telling anyone how to feel. I was sharing my thought process, and suggesting that gratitude is better than anger and a sense of entitlement.

I have given a great deal of thought to my feelings on this matter. I have a degree in history and have traveled extensively, including to several third world countries. I use this experience to inform my reactions, and I try to keep things in perspective.

I may not be directly grateful or appreciative to someone giving me something I don't want or in any way harassing me. I have been stalked (not LDS) and it was extremely stressful, but I (and I am talking about myself here, no one else) **I** still feel grateful that:

I live in a place and have enough resources that I can afford to turn my nose up at fresh produce offered in the middle of winter.

I live in a time and place where the person knocking at my door is offering an unwanted book rather than a gun in my face.

I live in a time and place where people might bother me with their presence and their religion, but I am legally protected from it.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do NOT take this as criticism. I am not trying to invalidate anyone's feelings or experience. I am trying to share what I consider to be a positive and useful way of dealing with potentially negative experiences.

If no one is interested, and the purpose of this board is exclusively to complain, I will be on my way.

I didn't see your other thread, but I think you are making a valid point. It's probably better to be grateful that you aren't desperately hungry enough to eat the food left on your doorstep than to be offended that someone dared to give it to you. If you were telling other people that they had to feel the same gratitude you feel for unwanted gifts, that would be rude - but you made it pretty clear that you're just sharing your own feelings. I don't see anything wrong with that, and I think you have a good perspective.

Complaining vs venting--I think there is a difference and venting is clearly a way to deal as well.

Venting is valid, and I have no problem with it. However, venting can (and there is research on this) make the problem worse because it causes you to focus on the problem and blow it up in your mind.

I try to vent when I need to, but not wallow in it.

Pista Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Venting is valid, and I have no problem with it.
> However, venting can (and there is research on
> this) make the problem worse because it causes you
> to focus on the problem and blow it up in your
> mind.
>
> I try to vent when I need to, but not wallow in
> it.
If you are still venting about something that happened a long time ago maybe it is time to get over it.Complaining about something that just happened is a little different than posting over and over about something that happened iin the distant past.

I agree with you and I feel that some people are making a big deal about a little problem. A gift from a church member , even if you have told them to stay away is annoying, but we live in a world with big problems and cookies on the doorstep just doesn't measure up to things like earthquakes, tsunamis, abuse or death. Some people need to get some perspective. I don't mind threads complaining when it happens to you, but some posters seem to be making a career out of posting on unwanted gifts and frankly, it gets old. This will probably get deleted, but this is the way I feel. Others may feel differently. Again, I am not talking about the pineapple thread. That was bizarre.

More than once, you have gotten very upset and carried on for multiple threads about how someone here wronged you with a post. You've let a post by a person you've never met and probably never will meet get to you, but you think someone who has an actual person (rather than a post in cyberspace) show up on their actual property (rather than on a public board in cyberspace that you don't own and can choose to ignore) after they've asked multiple times to be left alone is making a big deal out of nothing?

A person cannot just pick up their house and move it to another location to get away from unwanted contact the way we all can choose not to read a reply to one of our posts by a person with whom we want no online interaction, yet you've demanded some posters stay off threads you start and not reply to your posts. You are demanding your request for "no contact" in cyberspace be respected but a person asking for "no contact" on property THEY OWN should get some perspective because it's not a big deal? Just a tad hypocritical!

You recently were complaining again about an interaction on this board between you and another poster that happened years ago, so is it time for you to get over it? Is that an example of making a career of complaining about the same thing and it getting old? (All phrases used by you in this thread when referring to another RFM poster.)

Frankly, I think people (including you) should post about what they want as long as it isn't against board rules or Susan I/S hasn't given the "knock it off" order, but it's impossible not to notice that you fail to hold yourself to the same standards that you regularly demand of others.

Getting perspective works both ways.

Really?I almost never start threads of any sort and do not start multiple theads on the same subject.I'll admit I am not perfect and do have negative feelings against certain posters, but I do not go around starting thread after thread on the subject.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2011 03:59PM by bona dea.

I'm right there with ya Pista - I find it extremely annoying that we have become a bunch of whiny unappreciative people that think they are entitled to what THEY want,, the way THEY want it at the moment THEY want it. AND that is the only way it is to be. I have been blasted several times for expressing an opinion or making a suggestion. While venting may be 'a way to deal' according to some, it is not necessarily a healthy way to deal and can often times make things worse. Venting frequently just gives energy to something that one can not control and a much more productive and healthier way of dealing is to examine accountability and to work on the things one can control.

I find I am a much happier, better balanced, nicer person when I am living in gratitude rather than being a victim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 08:12PM by bigred.

What gives you cause to think otherwise?

Timothy

Don't go away Pista. You are one of the ones who's perspective I always look for--seriously.

I read that post. It did take a wrong turn. I like to think a lot of it is misunderstanding due to any number of things. In this case, I think it was the co-incidence of similarly themed threads.

I did understand your post and it triggered introspection. I have gotten some jaw dropping presents in my life. When my father gave me the Miracle of Forgiveness I nearly fell over. I took it and thanked him because I knew it came from an important place inside him.

I wanted so bad to tell him that that was the book that got me out of the mormon mess in the first place, but after all these years I am glad I didn't.

You never know what someone gets out of your posts because most do not respond. I was fascinated by your post and the thread it provoked because lately I have been questioning heavily if taking the high road is really the right choice. It sounds good. It sounds "evolved". But sometime it makes you feel like a doormat.

I always tend to take the high road and I actually don't know why. And--I'm actually not sure it is a good thing.

I think some may feel that accepting those gifts is being a doormat. It is something we all have to decide for ourselves as each situation comes up I guess, but as an exmo, the tango with the TBMs gets old.

Thank you, blueorchid.

I should clarify that I did not intend the last line to be some drama queen exit threat; more a comment made in frustration.

I, too, think a lot about the apparent similarities of taking the high road and being a door mat. I have been accused of being complacent, when I feel that I am choosing not to engage in a battle that is not worth my energy.

The different is really what is going on internally. If something genuinely bothers me, and I let it go because I feel powerless to do anything about it, then I am being a doormat. If I choose not to engage because I don't want to expend the energy, but I feel strong and confident, able to control my life and myself, then I am taking the high road.

The reverse is also true. If I confront someone, but do it like a wounded animal with a sense of being a vicim, that is not empowered. Confrontation does not equal power.

As you said, every case is individual.

"If something genuinely bothers me, and I let it go because I feel powerless to do anything about it, then I am being a doormat."

I think you hit the definition of why some of the times we took the high road and let things go will never ever feel right. I hope I recognize more in the moment (and not after the fact) which way I need to go when I'm surprised by a situation. My average for hitting bulls eyes has not been that good in the past.

I agree that gratitude and living a positive attitude is much better than complaining/venting/bitching. Wish there was a formula for "letting go" of issues, hurt feelings... Any suggestions that have worked for you?

google 'The Healing Codes'

Since you asked, yes.

It is not always easy, but what I try to do is not stop at my initial emotional reaction. I make a conscious effort to consider how I can choose to respond to a situation in a way that is useful and beneficial.

One experience I had where I discovered the power of gratitude was many years ago when my beloved dog died of renal failure. She got ill very suddenly, I took her to the vet and within days she was gone. It was a very painful loss for me, partly because of other things I was experiencing at the time. The staff at the vet's office was wonderful, going above and beyond to call of duty to make my dog as comfortable as possible in her last days and to be compassionate with me. I felt compelled to take flowers to them, even though it was my dog who had died. I discovered in that impulse that being grateful for the goodness I had experienced took away some of the pain of my loss. It was almost an accidental discovery on my part, but that day I realized that gratitude could be a healing balm and have since made an effort to consciously choose it whenever possible.

I have posted several times about my marriage to a gay man. Many of my friends and family expected me to be angry and resentful about the whole situation, but by choosing to focus on the real love that we shared we were both able to move on to more authentic lives as friends without blame. Was it easy? No. But it was better than being bitter.

Both of those examples were bittersweet, with obvious "good" sides. Sometimes things happen that just seem all bad. Sometimes people treat us with behavior that is truly egregious. It is harder to find reasons to be grateful in those times, but those are probably the times when it is most beneficial to do so.

Gratitude and forgiveness can go hand in hand. There are many people who have wronged me, and when I forgive them, it has nothing to do with letting them get away with bad behavior, and everything to do with me choosing not to be harmed by it. When I decide to be grateful despite myself and my own negative emotional reaction, I am holding my power.

But even in your OP you put in the exemptions that clearly state you are not always happy and grateful for the gifts given to you, just like everyone else.

There is no reason for anyone to be grateful for a gift that is thoughtless, hurtful or given to push an agenda.

Oh, and you are also complaining about the board as a whole and using that complaint to justify leaving.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2011 09:42AM by MJ.

Yes, I was expressing disappointment and frustration, even complaining, about a general attitude of ingratitude here and elsewhere.

I made concessions in the OP and later that some behavior is not gracious.

I realize that it is possible to find my statements contradictory. It is because this is a complex and subtle topic and I, like anyone, am prone to make statements which I then must re-evaluate and reconsider. I am willing to do that. I appreciate your discussion in attempting to arrive at a reasonable conclusion and engaging in the process of figuring out difficult issues.

As I mentioned above, my "complaint" as justification for leaving was meant to be a provocative statement because I was frustrated that some people were determined to only complain and intentionally ignored the subtleties of the point I was trying to make.

If you want to discuss this, I am willing to offer clarification and concessions. If you are just trying to catch me being wrong so that you can win, fine, you win.

It's when the person giving it feels it is authentic. When gratitude is forced, unnatural, and given for something meant to be hurtful, those involved are not likely to feel uplifted by expressions of gratitude.

Hopefully, gratitude would not be withheld because of unbounded selfishness or exaggerated attitudes of entitlement and a wish to unfairly hurt someone or soak them for additional goodies. That conjures up images of classic spoiled kid characters from movies and literature. I'm thinking of the extreme examples of Veruca Salt in Charlie and Chocolate factory and the rich kid characters in Shirley Temple movies.

and grateful for anything anyone chooses to give me. That is how I would want my gifts received also.

Life is just too dang short to be upset over such insignificant, minor things as a gift you don't care for.

One of the wisest things I have learned is that peace of mind comes from a grateful perspective.

The power of gratitude is something that is extremely important in my life.

It's too easy to be negative, nasty, vulgar, find fault, and criticize other forgetting that they are just trying to live their lives the way they think is best just as we are.
Negative thinking won't bring any happiness, or peace of mind.

Showing appreciation and gratitude are some of the most powerful things we can do for others. We all need to know we are needed and appreciated. It's part of being human.

You want good service, you show gratitude wherever you go. You want to be treated with kindness, show gratitude for little things.

Life is so much easier when we are positive and grateful!

Want the greatest happiness ? Make a Happiness list and add to it daily. Give yourself permission to have the most joyful, free, happy life possible.

Besides who wants to hang around people who are always critical, can't say anything nice about anyone, find fault with everything, hold grudges, and live with an attitude of hate and anger.

NOT ME!

because they do things different, then take it personally and make connections that are not there.

The point, as I see it, is it's extremely difficult to deal with ungrateful, nasty, angry, hateful attitudes from people.

Sure anyone can take any position they want, but it's wise to remember there are consequences: when you choose the behavior you choose the consequences. That's just common sense.

So if people want to spend their energy being upset, angry, hateful, taking things personally, making the world all about ME ME ME, they can do that. But the consequences can be very severe.
Wise to remember that.

Are there any countries where people seem to like you telling them how to behave, or do you usually get chased out of town by an ungrateful mob?

No angry mobs, yet. Most people I have met are more interested in trying to genuinely communicate than in finding fault and picking fights.

Of course, there are always exceptions.

Thanks for asking.

Ah, if only more mormons desired to "genuinely communicate"!

Some do...

But by and large there is no room for a real exchange of needs with most true believers.


Of course there are exceptions! But I know I am part of the faction here that is often met with, "Surely you exaggerate!" when relating real life mo interactions.

Grattitude is one thing being stupid about it is another.

OK here is an example. I got a pair of headphones for christmas this year a pair of headphones desighned for well someone other than me. Grattitude would dictate that I wear them anyway no matter how much others hate me useing them or how bad for my own hearing they are. Well I did my reserch and mother can use them she has bad ears and they are perfect for her. Now I had to rant at my Dad before he'd actualy try them on and agree with me that it isnt my imagination. I had to fight for my dad to finaly get my mother to try them on. It was an uphill struggle. Finaly I got the headphones where they should be though it was exusteing to do.

Grattitude has its limits and rantng sometimes can provide an anser or atlest understanding. Dwelling on things is a bad idea but sometimes a small problem you feel you cant change can get alot bigger later.

Like a gift of cookies from a church member if accepted with no problems and grattitude the church member takes it as 'Oh they dont really mean no contact lets bombard them with church!' so in that way it can escalate. Sometimes when telling someone no means no you have to be consistant.

Personaly I'd like to know when something i've gotten someone sucks. It means I can shrug my shulders and do better.

I agree about wanting to know if I'm way off base with gift choices for someone. It helps me do better and cut down on frustration and waste.

I also agree that it's a good idea to be consistent. If a woman wants to cut off the attentions of an overly zealous unwanted suiter it's a good idea to make a clean break.

ONe of my friend's former boyfriends kept sending her roses for every occasion long after she wanted to discontinue contact. It went on for such a long time that she felt spooked and spoke to a police officer friend about it. He told her to never accept gifts from someone like that as it leads them on and can sometimes become scary or dangerous.

Pista wrote:

"If no one is interested, and the purpose of this board is exclusively to complain, I will be on my way."

Again, I can only wonder why folks come to a place called "Recovery From Mormonism" and expect to find glowing reports regarding the cult and its followers.

Boggles me mind.

Timothy

However, on RfM it will never work to demand that other posters must comply with expectations of that kind. Funny when complainers complain about complainers. LOL

It's like staunch high and mighty official priesthood leader guys railing against arrogance in the lowest ranks slumped in back chairs of the wardhouse.

The irony is not lost on me.

What is lost on me is the vitriol and determination to ignore what could be a thoughtful discussion in favor of anger and resentment.

that we didn't have to establish boundaries. We were also taught to never be angry or hate, etc., etc., etc.

IF someone is bothering you--like they did Cheryl--we have a right as human beings to be angry.

It is one thing to be grateful--another thing entirely to be a rug. Just because our lives aren't as bad as someone else's doesn't mean we also don't have a right to FEEL and to establish boundaries.

A "gift" given like those given by some church members is not a gift. It is an insult. I refuse to allow people to do that to me any longer. It also doesn't mean I spend all my days hating either.

I've had real stalkers in my life--I felt threatened by them--whether emotionally or physically. Why should we put up with this type of behavior?

Interesting thread. I agree that is very important and healthier to live with a positive out-look on life and things just seem to come easier when you let light in.

People want to be around you more. An act like a church sympathy gift can be much like water and oil...I'm not going there. I am choosing to not let it affect me. It's like I want these close relationships with my family members and friends cause I love them and crave good relationships- but the church will not allow it because they are on a different plane.

I think it's good to share on here what we've gone through and going through so we can evolve and know we aren't alone but as a person I can't dwell on things cause it will eat me from the inside out. stress and anxiety causes so many illnesses and takes stabs at my well-being. I am also going to try and focus on the positive. So many other religions are more extreme. I am just so grateful that I wasn't born in the FLDS church for example. Take care everyone and thanks for your insights.

“To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.”
Lewis B. Smedes

"Develop an attitude of gratitude, and give thanks for everything that happens to you, knowing that every step forward is a step toward achieving something bigger and better than your current situation."
Brian Tracy

"Gratitude bestows reverence, allowing us to encounter everyday epiphanies, those transcendent moments of awe that change forever how we experience life and the world."
John Milton

"Gratitude changes the pangs of memory into a tranquil joy."
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

"Gratitude helps you to grow and expand; gratitude brings joy and laughter into your life and into the lives of all those around you."
Eileen Caddy