1. I am sitting in my hotel room waiting for my dad to come over for breakfast. I am going to come out to him.

Does he already know? At my age (mid 40s) he ought to, and maybe it doesn't matter if we have this conversation on some level. But I need him to know me. I need to know that I don't have to pretend to be someone I'm not every time I'm with him. I need to be able to keep my que.er studies books and gay novels in the living room and my Herb Ritts photos on the wall when he comes to visit.

Wish me luck.

2. I came out to my mom a year ago (parents are divorced for over 40 years and don't talk much) so she's had time to adjust. This week I let her read the poems and stories I wrote about my efforts to reclaim my authentic self from the grips of my repressive LDS upbringing. I wrote about sex with my mission companion, my heartbreak this year when the man I loved, a friend of 15 years, couldn't make the transition out of the closet with me and stopped all contact, my exit letter sent last March, my anger at TSCC, my angst over lack of sexual experience,... lots of intense stuff. So now my sister tells me that she's planning a big response, which will be exclusively about.... wait for it... the evils of porn. A word I used exactly ONCE in pages and pages of writing. I do not intend to entertain that discussion. I will not be emasculated by my mother and her religion any longer.

3. I am pissed off that I can come out and present myself openly as a gay man at work and socially and STILL not escape the repressive attitudes about sex that were drummed into me or overcome the lack of socialization surrounding sex that any common 17-year-old boy has, straight or gay. I want to be with someone and I can't. Partly for logistical reasons (small town, can't date students), but mostly psychological: I am afraid. My few gay friends and therapist don't really get it. They can't understand the grip that 30+ years of sex-negative (especially gay sex-negative) indoctrination has on a person. How do other exmos break free? Coffee was easy. Beer took a bit longer. This... I don't know. It's upsetting. I have lost weight over this during the last week because I see no adequately quick (yet ethical) solution and I don't even feel like eating. Furthermore, desperation is *not* attractive and I know it.

I've covered lots of ground here, and it's really not anything that is screaming for "answers" from y'all -- I just needed to get it out where at least a few of you know what I'm up against.

UPDATE: Thanks so much, everyone. I'd click the "like" button for all of your generous posts below if we had one to click!

The conversation with my dad went very well. He'd been curious about why I was in therapy, and I started out by telling him that I'd reached a point in the last year when I realized that I didn't want to be alone and needed help understanding myself and how to create a meaningful and loving relationship. I told him that I'd had some relationship challenges over the year and that I'd like to be able to talk about those kinds of issues with him, but that for me to be able to do that he needed to know that I was gay and I needed to know he was okay with that.

He expressed his unconditional acceptance and love, his regret that I couldn't have had his support sooner, and his concern for my safety (that last one is a common reaction, but with much younger guys!). In between my brief summaries of some of the ups and downs of the last year he shared his own regrets about things he did/didn't do in order to try to find love and companionship over the years. It was really one of the most overtly adult-to-adult talks we'd ever had. He was, as I expected, most hurt by news of my resignation. I believe he understood my explanation that my integrity didn't allow me any other option but to formalize my separation from the church. He couldn't keep himself from telling me that he knew God still loves me, but I know that at some level that's just a way of him telling me again that *he* loves me despite what his church tells him to think about me. That's how I choose to take it, at least.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 12:07AM by Inverso.

My own sexuality, and all of the characteristics of what I am and what I do, came to me in my very early exmo days. Of course, it was easy for me. Wanting to have lots of heterosexual sex was expected of me at the age I left Mormonism.

Especially early on, I'm not sure that I could have handled any serious resistance to that.

Good luck Inverso. I doubt I have any answers for you, but I am at least listening.

All I want to say is good luck, Inverso. I hope it goes as good as it can go.

D

Hey Inverso, I know exactly where you're coming from. I was BIC, went on a mission, graduated from BYU, the works. I didn't come out until I was in my late 30s.

I thought I was doing ok coming out to my family, until I received a nasty e-mail from my brother. He accused me of attacking his religion and "forcing my gay lifestyle on the family" - whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. So I sent an e-mail back where I ripped him a new one. Ok, more like I ripped him a dozen new assholes! This occurred in December several years ago. I also told my brother I was spending Christmas with someone who loved me, my boyfriend, and that if he wanted to discuss this any further he'd have to wait until after New Year's. So he called me in early January with his tail between his legs and apologized.

Things have been going well ever since. My boyfriend and I have been together over 7 years now. My boyfriend is considered another member of the family - he's gone home with me a couple of times to spend Christmas with my family.

Like you hear quite often on this site, we teach people how to treat us. My advice (which I know you're not asking for) is to make sure your parents/family know that some things are not up for discussion. If your mom thinks everything is caused by "porn" let her know she's full of crap and to not bring it up again.

As far as attitudes about sex go, the only thing I can say is to just give it time. The mormon church can do a number on your mind, and it can take a while to get over it. But don't worry, it will come. Don't worry about the "socialization about sex that a 17 year old has." Don't look at the past, look forward. I figured things out later in life and so can you.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and for sharing your own exmo "it gets better" experience!

damage it has done to my ex and I'm almost certain he'll never find a life partner--though he has a good relationship with his last partner and prior boyfriend (they are all good friends). My ex has lots of sexual experience, but I wouldn't say relationship experience.

Some of my ex's friends some years ago told him that if he acted ashamed of being gay, then people would treat him that way. IT IS TOUGH, THOUGH.

Even in my circumstances--boyfriend of 7 years, still married to my ex, one of my neighbors kind of caught me off guard the other day when I was buying a coffee press is it?? Can't remember the name of it now--and she was just plain rude to me at the store. I used to be one of her favorites before we left the church. Most of the time, I do just fine. I don't know why she caught me off guard.

Anyway--I'm sorry your mother would think of sending you such a thing. I used to worry one of my kids would be gay and then I read something on postmo about a dad who had 2 gay sons. I then realized that what I wanted for my kids is that they could be happy with whoever they ended up with--male or female--and that they have the rights to be happy, be married if they choose to be, etc. I'm assuming your dad is still TBM? I read the whole post, but don't remember reading that.

Keep us posted as we are surely interested. (My ex's family "kind of" accepts him???--they keep hoping I never divorce him . . . I let them know in no uncertain terms that we aren't a couple and will never be even in their supposed CK.)

I think I'm the opposite of your husband. I can love, but the sex... different story. A new gay friend of mine who got the unabridged version of my loss of the 15-yr friendship with my ex-BFF really clarified things for me when he pointed out that what I had with my friend was a level of intimacy that many couples TRY to obtain through sex and don't. My pain over losing that relationship finally made sense when this new, more experienced friend helped me see that although it was platonic, I was very much partnered with my friend and the loss should legitimately be thought of almost in terms of a divorce.

And yes, he's TBM. Former branch president, Latino... lots of reasons this could have gone badly!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 12:39AM by Inverso.

Even though I figured it out fairly young , I was so traumatically closeted and my social development was so atrophied by the church that I feel I really understand where you are.

You are very courageous to be coming out--especially to a mormon family. It takes more guts than most anyone will ever know. Telling my father was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. It was a pivotal turning point though and it was the right thing to do.

In the end, you deserve love, you deserve a beautiful life. You are clearly taking your life and your destiny into your own hands now, and that will open doors that have been closed. What's behind them? Who knows. But now there is possibility.

But get out of town, you've got to date SOMEBODY!

My step son is 24. I'm waiting for this conversation.

I'll be more surprised if it never comes.

He'll be surprised who is support system is.

I'm waiting, waiting.

I don't think details are any of my business. I don't think he has too explain, or defend any thing. I do think he may have a need to break the news someday. Right now he is married, and proudly announces to anyone that listens that he is metro sexual. He lives in NYC. I hope he comes to terms with it before he makes life decisions that hurt any more people than it already will. I don't think his wife will take it well. I know I wouldn't. It seems so obvious to me. Maybe i'm wrong, but I don't think so. I raised him. He told everyone that he was gay when he was 11. S%$@ hit the fan, and he hasn't brought it up again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 03:31PM by mia.

mia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My step son is 24. I'm waiting for this
> conversation.
>

Ok, I have to chime in here. I had a hard time coming out to my parents. When I did, they said that the already knew. They also said that they knew I had been working up the courage to tell them for about 6 months (they were exactly right on that). When I asked why they didn't say or do something to make it easier, they said, "We knew you would tell us when you were ready". I was floored. You have no idea the emotions that brought up. They knew I was struggling with something that was emotionally changing for me, they knew what it was, they knew it involved them and they could not find something that caused a small crack that I could have used as an opening???

Now I understand their position. If they did to much, they could have scared me away. Coming up to me and saying "MJ, are you gay" would not have worked. Saying SOMETHING that would have let me know that the gay thing was all right with them would have been nice, but I'm not sure it would have been worth the risk.

I'm his step mother. I don't feel like I'm in first place position. I've always left it up to his parents to make the first move. Also, he's married, expecting their first child. I am not about to step in and be the heavy. I don't like the situation, but feel like I am not the first on anyone's list to bring this up. If it were my own child, it would be a whole different story. His parents aren't going to take this well. I watched them melt down when he was 11. My input was not appreciated. I will be there for him when he needs someone. It's just not a good time to bring it up. He's in the TBM mode. Nothing I say about anything seems to carry any weight. I can only talk about other stories I know, and how I think about that. So that is what I do. Trying to let him know there is a soft place to land when he needs it. It's so hard to sit silently by.`

I have to add, I love this boy (man). My heart is breaking for him. I don't think I am wrong about him being gay. I'm just not his "real" mother. Am I making a mistake? I don't know. He is one who tries to please all. So bright, so successful, so good at everything except this. I feel like my hands are tied. And then again, maybe I'm wrong?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 12:30AM by mia.

What you do with it is your business.

Thank you. You're experiences may someday help me, my stepson, and his family come to terms with this issue in way that isn't destructive to him. He had an uncle that was gay. I never knew him. He was murdered in SF in a gay bashing incident before my ss was born. His nephew is so much like him,from what I have heard. I wish they could have known each other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 01:49AM by mia.

I'd hate to see him avoiding talking about what he's been through/going through with a wonderful mother like you. Why wait?

:)

Anagrammy

You seem to feel hopelessly crippled by the Mormon penis-binding (like unto foot-binding for the Chinese....)

Seriously, have you ever considered going to a sex therapist? They know EXACTLY how to work with the thoughts that keep you from enjoying your own sexuality. It is one of their most successful areas of sexual dysfunction.

Hopefully you don't feel that you have no right to treatment of your dysfunction because you are gay?

Get professional help!

Anagrammy

Great suggestion. I think I've always associated sex therapy with a different demographic--straight and partnered (usually married). I'll look into it with my regular therapist, who needs to be replaced soon anyway because she is retiring in 2 months.

You know, there is a different standard of mental/behavioral health care for gays. My insurance would never have agreed to pay for "couples" counseling for me and the friend I mentioned above because we didn't fit society's idea of a couple. There are plenty of gay men (and women, I'm sure) who maintain a separate residence and may or may not be having sex but who are in an intimate relationship. Unless we had fit the standard for a registered domestic partnership, there would have been no acknowledgement that we were were two people who loved each other in our own way and needed professional help facing challenges that affected our relationship.

very best of luck to you. I hope you are shown the love, respect & kindness you deserve.

First, good luck with the coming out part. Don't let the straights get you down, many have no grip on reality in regards to the gay thing.

Now about "I want to be with someone and I can't. ... mostly psychological: I am afraid"

For me, it wasn't sex, I could have sex with men (men are pigs and will have sex just about anywhere any time) I came out in towns big enough to find lots of one night stands. I had to learn how to love a man. One day, the right man, a very special man, came into my life. He taught me how to get past that fear. That man was important, but so was I and so was my attitude.

Be patient, do be hard on yourself and forgive yourself. Focusing on this and trying to fight your way past it may only make it more difficult. Nurture yourself, take baby steps, take small risk that you are willing and able to take.

If you can take small steps and slowly grow, I will bet that one day a very special person will come into your life and lead you on the journey the rest of the way.

Or you can do the massive shock treatment and get a room in French Quarter of New Orleans over the labor day weekend. Be sure not to turn down any invites to the private parties (especially the pool parties) and be willing to let go and go with the flow.

I have been contemplating my own versions of shock therapy. There have been some baby steps at least (new profiles on a4a and manhunt to start with...). But to pull the trigger... mmm. Not easy for me.

I know men will have sex with me. But my morg-ized brain stomps on my reptilian brain (which is very sex positive as RJ would confirm) and shouts at me that I SHOULD NOT have sex. Because it makes me a bad person. Because it makes me a slut. Because it gives me diseases. Because it makes Regular Jesus cry,,,,,, you get the picture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 01:02AM by Inverso.

Someone else may pull the trigger for you. I had not idea I was going to have sex the first time I was with a man. The other person took control, I was to frightened to do anything other than not run away. The difference for me on this was, at the time, I had no idea that two men could have sex together. It was a long time ago and the whole gay thing just wasn't talked about so I had no idea.

The point is, keep working on putting yourself out there and there is a good chance that someone will help you the rest of the way.

After that, I was still afraid to pull the trigger but I was far more willing than I was afraid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 01:14AM by MJ.

Hi Inverso,

Please don't go through with your Manhunt.com experiment. It's important to understand that 20% of gay males are HIV positive. Please, think very seriously about that. One in five! That didn't happen randomly. It happened because they had sex, usually with 30 or more other males. Often, this was anonymous sex. And then you've got the various hepatitis viruses, which are much more infectious than HIV, and deadly. And then you've got HPV, some strains of which can lead to anal cancer. It's simply not safe to have sex with strangers, and it's positively unsafe if you find those strangers through websites whose explicit purpose is to match anonymous males up for sex. Healthy, well-functioning people don't play with their lives like that. There aren't any second chances.

If you find the right guy, then sex will happen naturally. If, on the other hand, lust drives you, you're literally in mortal danger as a gay male. Just go to Craigslist, and browse through the Male-Male personals. Do any of those guys seem like someone you would want to end up with? Think of what you would be putting in jeopardy.

It's easy to get discouraged and depressed, to feel lonely and isolated, to feel rejected, to be frustrated. But having sex with a stranger doesn't change any of those things. It makes them worse.

Try chemistry.com or match.com, but definitely not manhunt.com or anything like it.

Do NOT risk your life, and don't pretend that there's such a thing as "safe" sex. There's only Russian Roulette, and I don't want you to be the next victim.

MJ

I just have to laugh. The men are pigs and will have sex with....I was a single girl for a long time. That statement is so true. Don't you ever forget it! There are a FEW exceptions though.

Haha , I guess we have that in common.

I'm not your dad; I'm not your mom.... I'm the person who accepts you; one of many. I hope you get what you want. Failing that, I hope you get what you need.

:) Thanks as always, WCG!

I'm glad your conversation went well, and I hope you can continue on with your recovery quickly.

You have love and support here.

We all need love.

Even. Scary. Dinosaurs. Need love.

I thought there was a chance my teenage son might be gay a couple years ago. That made me take a close look at why I was a bigot. I had to figure out how I should react if/when he eventually broke the news. I decided that if he was, it couldn't change our relationship, which would mean unconditional acceptance. It is only through reading about the experiences of those who are "out" that I changed my attitude. I hope you do find a way to work out your problems. Every day, more people are starting to understand the challenges of being gay, so it should get better. It turns out my son really likes girls, so I was wrong, but I am still glad to have had the experience.

Just reading what MJ and you wrote--and, MJ, I never thought about what you pointed out where my ex is concerned. He has 4 people--okay, maybe 5--people he is close to in his life. I happen to be one of those--his kids, his last partner, and someone who works for him. He is not close to his family and his parents were horrendous excuses for human beings (very TBM, too).

Anyway--I think he fears intimacy on an emotional level and also doesn't know how to "get there." He has had sex with more people than I can even begin to imagine. I know it has nothing to do with "intimacy" and it makes me sad for him and also his last partner sad for him.

BUT I never thought, Inverso, that what you are going through is exactly what me even as a straight perfect little mormon girl went through. My ex was CERTAIN I would never have sex with anyone unless I was legally married to them. (We won't go into the mind-bending insanity of before we got married and my perfectness--and how they handled my "chastity.")

BUT I was "lucky" in that I got back in a relationship with the guy I let get away in my 20s about 7 years ago. I thought I would feel soiled, dirty, a sinner--NOPE. I am actually an adulteress as I'm not divorced and I am rather shocked that all those feelings they tell you about, nothing. I did feel guilt for what I was ASSIGNED to do with my ex and then report back to the bishop. Once you take the voyeurs out of the equation, it is a lot different.

Anyway--when I had sex with a straight man for the first time--I wept--I felt whole. It wasTHEN and only THEN I completely understood gays and why they need a MAN--not pretend to be with a woman.

I'd tell you to meet up with my ex, but I'm afraid he's just break your heart. He is a good guy and I love him to death. E-mail me if you would like to talk to him or my ex's last partner. All good guys. All around 50 to 55.

"Anyway--when I had sex with a straight man for the first time--I wept--I felt whole. It was THEN and only THEN I completely understood gays and why they need a man--not to pretend to be with a woman."

That is one of the most beautiful things I have ever read. That sentence sheds more light on the consequence of denying your true self than anything I have read in a long time.

It isn't just gays who don't always have the freedom to be who they really are. They aren't the only ones denying being their true selves.

Thank you c12.