I find the myers briggs test to be very accurate for understanding how people function. Many organziations teach it so coworkers can understand the strengths and weaknesses of a group.

Quite often married couple are attracted to their opposites but then they get frustrated because the thing that attracted them to their partner ends up driving them nuts. For instance introverts get attracted to extroverts but then the introvert gets burned out if they try to keep up with the extrovert and the extrovert does not understand that introverts need time alone.

i think that Ns are better attracted to other Ns, because Ss don't understand how the N mind works. Also there are more Ss in the world than Ns, (75 vs 25) so the S has more people like them.

Ps tend to be information gathers and hate to make a decision while Js only feel comfortable after the decision is made.

Is it really accurate? It seems way too simplistic for what it claims to represent.

In fact, plenty of research has been done to try and map out different personality characteristics, and most of it is a lot more complex than what these folks did.

In the end, it seems like a very vague, almost horoscope-like way of helping someone make sense of their own personal traits. What I find interesting about it all is that the OP from the last thread claims that psychologists actually use them professionally.

It is accurate. It's not saying that you will act or be a certain way but that you will tend to have a comfort zone of certain behaviors or coping strategies.

My family did this when I was growing up. I'm ISTJ and my mother is INFP. All of a sudden various things about our interactions became so obvious.

It really helped me to understand my mother's personality better and get where she was coming from when she would say certain things that would make me just crazy because they weren't "logical".

I've also found it very applicable to myself in a variety of situations since I know I am this way - that I have to work harder at understanding other people's points of view and their emotional issues vs. just saying this is the most logical answer - it doesn't matter how you feel about it.

When I understood this I was able to figure out a set of relational tools that have really helped me to be more understanding of where people are coming from. It's not natural to me, but things go much more smoothly for me now that I understand that other people may operate from more of a "this feels right" mentality vs. my mentality which is "this makes sense so it doesn't matter how I feel".

In my mind, the "test" poorly attempts to reduce the ineffable qualities of being human to simple letters via simple black-and-white sampling.

Here's where I have problems with the so-called "test":

"You are more interested in a general idea than in the details of its realization"

I'm actually interested in both. Where's the "Both" button?

"Strict observance of the established rules is likely to prevent a good outcome"

Need context. How can one possibly answer this question honestly without knowing the circumstances?

"You prefer to act immediately rather than speculate
about various options"

Again, depends on the circumstances. When a life is in danger I act immediately, where Less pressing matters, depending on the circumstances, might require reviewing the options.

The list goes on.

In the end, the test, like religion, attempts to pidgeonhole the gullible with answers that may or may not be accurate.

Your daily horoscope is just as telling.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 08:59AM by Timothy.

I think it is also too black and white in this version.

For me (E/ITNJ here), a lot of how I think/feel depends on the circumstances and the situation. I also think it's funny that it seems to say someone with TNJ characteristics can't have artistic talents. That makes no sense IMO.

It's a good reason to not take these tests completely to heart. Personally, I think the 7 Intelligences test is a better analysis for talents and interests.

Maybe it's more obvious for someone (like me) who is very unbalanced on a set of preferred behaviors. If you are more mid-range you may find that you are more easily able to switch from one to the other.

For me, I_TJ are almost 100% preference, and the N/S is VERY slightly skewed to S. So, when I read the description of ISTJ vs. INTJ, they both sound like me. When I read the description ESTJ this does not sound like me AT ALL.

And, it's not that you can't or don't use various strategies it's about what you PREFER all other things being equal.

Example:
"You are more interested in a general idea than in the details of its realization"

So. I am in various committees at my school. I'm a teacher. In the first committee we talked about ideas then made a decision and we're working on figuring out how to make it work.

The second committee - we're still tossing around ideas and we work on something and then the next time something else.

Neither approach is inherently bad, but I much prefer what the 1st committee doing vs. the 2nd. The head of the 2nd group is just fine with how the committee is progressing without a lot of structure which is kind of driving me crazy.

So, maybe it's not a good instrument for everyone, but for someone like me with really strong preferences for certain methods it was really interesting and eye-opening as to how other people approach problems.

... I have to be very interested in both the concept and its realization. As a music composer, I likewise have to grant equal attention.

If I don't, the model fails.

My only answer to that specific question is "Both" which the test does not allow.

Again, too black-and-white to be accurate.

Timothy

Ditto Timothy. I like what you are saying.

As an artist I always take the approach of having a "full palette" which just means you draw from everything and you have everything at your disposal.

Personality should be the same way ideally. Just because you are primarily introverted does not mean you don't have extroverted elements to draw from--and it is important to do that.

Timothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... I have to be very interested in both the
> concept and its realization. As a music composer,
> I likewise have to grant equal attention.
>
> If I don't, the model fails.
>
> My only answer to that specific question is "Both"
> which the test does not allow.
>
> Again, too black-and-white to be accurate.
>
> Timothy


You might be person who is bordeline in which case the description will only marginally describe you. With coworkers I can tell what their test result will be, it is really very simple once you become familair with the test.

I am an N and i often give too much information to S types who just want to know what they need to know to do a job. I thought I was insulting their intelligence by not giving them background information but I realized they just want to know what they need to do and how I want it done.

I also run my personal life different than my work life. At work I often act like a Thinker Judger, but in my own life I am a Feeler Perceiver.

Since couples often marry their opposite it is a good tool in marriage counseling--although the people have to agree that there is no "right" way to do things.

... to surround myself with good people. I don't have to give them tests or explain what I want done. Another benefit is that they seldom screw-up, but when they do the problem is quickly corrected.

I also seperate work from personal life. Ever see the Friday drinking thread? That would be a seperation from normal RFM activities at the end of the week, much like I do from work.

I'm not a fan of opposites attract. Upon leaving the cult, I vowed never to marry. Then I found someone I am entirely compatible with. That was thirty-three years ago.

Companies that rely on such gimmicks to solve incompatibility and productivity problems are poorly managed operations. No amount of testing will correct that. A few properly trained supervisors will.

This is the Gospel according to Timothy ... I guarantee there's more than one born everyday.

Timothy

Yes, psychologists use it. There are a number of books written on the myers briggs test, which are a worthwile read. It is not vauge or horoscope based, it based on how people make decisions and how they process information and it is quite accurate.

The test depends on a person honestly answering the questions, not answering how they "wish" they were.

once I had someone think I was a psychic because I could tell him about how his teenaged son was acting. The father was a STJ and the son was a NFP. They clashed like oil and water because they are the exact opposite.

Well, if there really is a bunch of validating research, what would you recommend as being the most definitive proof of the validity of this type of testing? I did take a look around and all I found were studies that went in very different directions than what this test suggests is a good explanation of personality.

Are there any journals it was published in?

snb (not logged in) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, if there really is a bunch of validating
> research, what would you recommend as being the
> most definitive proof of the validity of this type
> of testing? I did take a look around and all I
> found were studies that went in very different
> directions than what this test suggests is a good
> explanation of personality.
>
> Are there any journals it was published in?

Here is a good article in wikepedia-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

It has been around for a long time. It really is not vodoo just a look at how people make decisions and how they process that information. The premis is that there is no right way to be, that everyone is right and it is importand that everyone has contributes based on their preferences.

There are certain strerotypes that are explained by it. The absent minded professor with the organzied secretary who keeps his life in order. Most secretaries and admins are S T/F J. They take a limited amount of information and complete a task. They live to check things off a to do list.

Yeah, I did check there before. It is interesting stuff, but even when I went to look at the references, they mostly led back to non-academic websites that detailed the personality models and talked about how great and fun they were.

I did find mention of a couple of journals in the article, but when I tracked those down I couldn't find any of the information that was published. I'm not sure that those journals even exist or are peer reviewed.

Anyways, I couldn't find any information, so that is why I asked. I figured you might know. :)

The reason why I don't view this as a horoscope style approach is that any horoscope for any given zodiac sign can be equally applied across the board. IOW, a cancer can read a libra definition and say,"that sounds like me!" With the myers briggs type tests, the divisions and criteria for labeling a personality type are better defined, less ambiguous, and calculated with input from the individual. These inventories aren't perfect but there is no way an intp like me would ever read the definition of an isfj and say "that sounds like me!" The myers briggs is a great tool for insight but not a decree of destiny. People who view it as a horoscope are simply overly impressionable in my opinion.

I disagree. I did the test a few more times purposely changing the answers to get different results. With each description I felt like "that's me!" So I don't know if that's reflective of the test or my personality being really broad. Whatever. I think it's fun but I'm not taking it too seriously.

If it didn't really work than Psychologists, companies, and Universities wouldn't bother with it. I was first introduced to it in my Psychology personality class in college. I know several therapists that use it in their practices to better understand patients. My dad uses it as CEO when interviewing potential clients and My husband's department at American Express hires professionals to administer the test to their employees. It obviously has merit.

"If it didn't really work than Psychologists, companies, and Universities wouldn't bother with it."

Psychologists, universities and companies constantly use products that are popular and catchy, while completely ineffective. That is par for the course in their world.

Appeal to authority

A company I worked for employed said "lessons" and is currently out of bidness.

Put that in your Paradigm Shift Pipe and smoke it!

Timothy

By the way here is the page on temperment and love using the personality test. http://www.keirsey.com/personalityzone/lz1.asp

Here is the other page on careers
http://www.keirsey.com/personalityzone/wz_top.asp

It is funny that SP are considerered artisans. All of the artists/musicians I have ever known have been really strong NF. Over the last several threads I think I have read 150 different scores. Nobody has scored SP yet. Interesting...

I had a friendship that ultimately wound up with both of us feeling like the other was deliberately misunderstanding.
I convinced her to take the online MB test, and she is an ESFP to my INTJ.
She still didn't want to understand me, but this clinched it for me, I could understand where she was coming from now, but she was unwilling to see my point of view. I would forever put too little credibility in her emotions. Because making emotional decisions seems irrational to me. And she saw me as unfeeling.

Also, she's about as unartistic as they come, while I am very artistic. :)

She'd have made a good mormon, too.

That's one of the biggest complaints my family has made about me with regards to me leaving the church. They say I don't care about emotions, and they think that my past and childhood have ruined my emotions so that I don't care about them anymore. They've taken it further to say that I am suppresive of mine and other people's emotions, and that it's healthy to express emotions.

I've told them that I agree, and I have no problem with people feelings and expressing emotions (non-violently of course), but that I do have problems with people equating emotion with truth and facts. They don't buy it. They think that I'm an enemy to feelings.

If I didn't know that it would hurt them deeply, I'd ask them what they would do if they had strong feelings against the actions of their priesthood leaders, or against the church. Would they keep up the arguments that these would need to be expressed?

WinksWinks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a friendship that ultimately wound up with
> both of us feeling like the other was deliberately
> misunderstanding.
> I convinced her to take the online MB test, and
> she is an ESFP to my INTJ.
> She still didn't want to understand me, but this
> clinched it for me, I could understand where she
> was coming from now, but she was unwilling to see
> my point of view. I would forever put too little
> credibility in her emotions. Because making
> emotional decisions seems irrational to me. And
> she saw me as unfeeling.
>
> Also, she's about as unartistic as they come,
> while I am very artistic. :)


The sensor is an aritsan not artistic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artisan_temperament

They often do things with their hands that involve tools or equipment.

She's also clumsy and surfs the internet all day. Her hobby is drama. Making drama, participating in drama, and making sure everyone around has as much drama in their lives as she can find.

I have no idea what I saw in her to begin with, met online and then in real life, and then gave up on the idea.

But it was an interesting experience.

I am so heavily introverted I don't get out much beyond work, and it has been years and years since I made a new friend.

I just appreciate the old familiar things and people in my life. Socially set in my ways I suppose. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 07:04PM by WinksWinks.

I'm a musician/teacher and an INFJ--counselor. The description fits perfectly.

I scored strongly on the intuitive. The F (feeling-38) surprised me a bit. I thought I was more rational ;-).

I think my personality is very similar to other people I know who graduated in my instrument, and I'm still friends with several of them decades later. However, I think it's interesting how different OTHER types of musicians are. My school friends and I have laughed about this many times.

The ones that fit the Keirsey description in the artisan group: Voice majors. They were stereo-typically more quirky and had more fun-oriented and outgoing personalities. They were basically more theatrical. And were usually-but not always-less disciplined and less focused on academics and details (sorry, but true). There was a wide variety of loud personalities among them.

But most classical instrumentalists I know are highly disciplined personalities, and don't really fit with the artist/composer personality descriptions, which I thought was amusing.

Something you need to take into account about companies using the Meyers-Briggs. Answer those questions a certain way, and your personality profile will match what they are looking for. Add that to your job experience, degree, and background and you get hired.

Wow. How easy is that to get around? Copies of the questions are available online, in textbooks, etc., so anyone can get a sense of what's asked and tailor their answers to look like a good little executive who is decisive, with just the right amount of creativity (but not too much).

Seriously, though, I'm with Timothy. It is in no way an accurate measure of one's personality, nor is it a measure of how one thinks. There's no context for the questions. Or, ever met anyone who didn't lie on a survey?

But then, again, ever met a Mormon who didn't fudge it in a Temple worthiness interview with a Bishop?

Are all the skeptics NTs? It would make sense. I think some people are taking this too seriously. If u go into it with a skeptical eye it ruins the fun :)

I couldn't agree more. It is a fun test to take. :)

snb (not logged in) Wrote:
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> I couldn't agree more. It is a fun test to take.
> :)


I agree that it was fun to take the test, but as usual, I couldn't find the answer that best suited me, so I had to pick one that was close but not really accurate in many ways. The really odd thing was that the teachers scored my test incorrectly and I had to correct them. Go figure!
It's as much fun as a good Horoscope! :-)

Exactly :)

... skepticism tends to be a SOP round these parts.

Timothy