I used to respect everyone's religious faith, but lately I've come to a different way of thinking. Do I respect people who say the earth is flat? Do I respect people who say the moon landings were faked? Do I respect people who say women should be subservient to men?

Why do we respect people who are too lazy to see what is in front of their noses? It is this hands-off and deferential respect given to religion that has allowed it to flourish for too long. It's time to say what should be obvious: religious belief is risible in the 21st century, We should be far beyond the superstitions of our distant past.

I used to say live and let live. Now I say live and let die.

When anyone says you should respect religion, in particular the mormons, what they are asking is that you show respect to that which is not respectable.

You wouldn't be astonished at the mundane. You wouldn't be speechless at the ordinary. You wouldn't be in awe of the mediocre. Why would anyone with a backbone be respectful of a religion that cannot be held in high esteem? Especially a cult, that leaves a legacy of emotional destruction and atrophied development for its followers?

Speak the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If you hold your tongue, if you allow their agenda to cross your threshold, you are enabling them,not respecting them, and you are definitely not respecting yourself.

But, I would always let them start it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2012 11:58PM by blueorchid.

You should be respectful of people and their right to believe-even crazy things. I do draw the line at being respectful of people who are not respectful of me. Otherwise, so long as they aren't doing anything harmful or illegal, I'll be polite and keep my opinions to myself unless asked.In other words, I do not have to tell Mormons that many of their beliefs are just plain wierd.

There is a difference between respecting a person that you look up to and admire, and respecting a person's rights, even if you think the person is an idiot. One right is to believe what a person wants to about God/no God/many Gods, the meaning of this life and the reality/fantasy of an afterlife. People have the right to make sense of the world their way and find comfort in their way.

The problem with religion/lack of religion starts when people demand respect for their beliefs but they deny other people that respect. When they shove their beliefs or lack of beliefs down someone else's throat. When they think their right to believe the bible is allowed to to deny people right to marry ... or deny them the right to attend a marriage. When someone uses a person's beliefs to manipulate them. When they think it's OK to belittle someone else for their beliefs - and atheists do this too when they talk about how stupid people are to believe in God. Believing God doesn't exist doesn't give a person the right to belittle someone who believes God. But at the end of the day, it's not about respecting the belief itself but respecting the fundamental human right to believe in something.

There are many beliefs I consider stupid, but it the person isn't bothering me, I don't have to tell them that or try to change them.

I respect everyone's right to believe what they want, but I don't need to respect what they believe. In other words, believe any kind of crazy, stupid, harmful crap you want, but don't expect me to act like it isn't crazy, stupid or harmful.

Never give respect to those who demand it.

+1

There is a certain amount of respect a person should have just because they are a person, we call these thing basic human rights.

Past that, respect needs to be earned.


And people have the right to do a lot of stuff I do not respect. Just because they have the right to do something does not mean I have to respect that they actually exercise that right.

There is a difference between respecting someone's right to believe and respecting someone's beliefs. You can challenge, even mock a belief while allowing that a person should not have his or her basic rights denied because of that belief.

How do you feel about mocking it to their faces?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 02:57AM by bona dea.

It depends on the context. I'm not talking about being a child or just jeering at someone to be an ass; the basic rules of civility apply. But if I am having an open dialogue with someone and I think their ideas are ridiculous, I don't mind telling them so. How harsh or soft that comes off depends on the person and context.

If they were being polite and not trying to convert me to their way of thinking I'd probably say I don't agree and here is why. If they were being obnoxious, I'd probably be obnoxious too.LOL I do try not to start such discussions, though, unless there is a good reason.For instance, if my students were bullying a gay kid in the name of religion, I would tell them exactly why I think that is wrong.I would try to respect their right to their interpretation of the Bible while letting them know their actions are wrong and will not be tolerated. In other words, what they think is their business although I would give them other ways of considering the matter, but their actions are mine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 12:24AM by bona dea.

It can be a difficult line, especially with students. I did part of my student teaching in a super conservative community, where we were trained on how to deal with Holocaust deniers. Fortunately, I never had it come up, but the idea was to tell the student that he could believe whatever he wanted, but in this classroom we dealt in evidence, so he would need to keep those beliefs to himself.

I generally avoid going after someone's beliefs just because I find it do be wasted effort. I don't enjoy conflict for conflict's sake. If I can find some compromise I certainly will, but I also don't mind shaking my head and letting someone know I think an idea, even a closely held religious idea, is silly.

I'm just really interested in that distinguishing line between right to believe and beliefs. Having your beliefs challenged is not persecution. Having your rights taken away is. The pattern has too often been that some rabid religionists want to use their beliefs to take away others rights, then cry persecution when someone challenges their beliefs.

I agree, but I feel if someone out of the blue initiatiates a conversation trying to change my beliefs it is rude and could border on persecution depending on what is said and whether they take 'no' for an answer. As far as students, about all you can do is say that you disagree and why and make sure their behavior is appropriate.I'm not going to deny anyone their Constitutional right to believe in a literal 7 day creation and Noah's Ark if they want.

I did part of my student teaching in an extremely conservative town. My professors actually had to train us on how to deal with holocaust deniers. Fortunately I never had to to use the training, but the basic idea was to tell the student that he was free to believe whatever he wanted, but in this classroom we dealt in evidence, and if he wanted to carry on ignoring the evidence he would need to keep his opinion to himself.

That happened to me teaching, of all things, Latin. A Holocaust denier started spouting off and a Jewish kid who had lost relatives in the Holocaust got irate. I practically had a fight on my hand.This was my first year teaching and it was quite an exoerience. I told the denier that he could believe what he liked, but I didn't agree with him and we were not discussing it in class. After class I had a discussion with the other kid about people having a right to be idiots although I didn't use those words. LOL.

You can live and let live while not respecting someone's belief. There is nothing moral or ethical about respecting someone's belief in the incredibly illogical. However, it is very ethical to allow them the freedom to hold that belief.

Edit: Haha, oops. Just noticed that this was Pista's point as well, except that Pista said it a lot better than I did. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 12:44AM by snb.

It's about our RIGHTS!!!
Respect, accept, honor, live and let live, take any position you want. It's how we get along with other people.
Beliefs, as in religion is not all there is to other human beings.
We have certain freedoms. Beliefs is one of them.
Plus, it's just wise to treat others the way we want to be treated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 12:59AM by SusieQ#1.

I can respect the RIGHT of the Westboro Baptist Church to protest at funerals, but I do not respect the people that actually exercise that right.

Respecting a RIGHT is different than respecting the person.

Indeed, everyone has the right to believe what they wish. However, those beliefs, as well as the folks who believe them, are not protected from disagreement or ridicule as this forum clearly demonstrates.

All mormons are racist, sexist homophobes. I don't have to respect that, them or whatever led them to be that way.

Timothy

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can respect the RIGHT of the Westboro Baptist
> Church to protest at funerals, but I do not
> respect the people that actually exercise that
> right.
>
> Respecting a RIGHT is different than respecting
> the person.


Yes, indeed, I agree with MJ. RIGHTS are what are at issue. not what someone believes. Those beliefs are immaterial, in my view to the actual rights.
I'm a proponent of all of our rights, civil rights, etc.

Simply because they have the right to disrespect the people at the funeral? They are being disrespectful, they have the right to be, but still disrespectful and you respect THEM for it?

As you say, the RIGHT is not the person, what the person does or does not do with the right is what makes the person who they are, and that is how they should be judged, by how they ARE, not what rights they have.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 09:26PM by MJ.

+1

Mormons are often incapable of understanding this simple concept. Realisticly mormons need to assume that most people don't respect their wacky beliefs.

Afterall, mormons don't respect the beliefs of atheists or many Christians, so it follows that others would not respect the mormon ideas of dead dunking, disappearing golden plates or magical underwear.

Anyone is in denial or being deceitful if they say they respect all religions. That's because religious beliefs are wacky and conflict one with another, also some of them are violent or hurtful.

In a diverse world it's necessary to respect people's right to choose from many different religious beliefs or to choose no belief. It isn't necessary to speak out and praise every wacky or dangerous religious idea.

Anyone can belive anything they choose but they don't have a right to tread on the rights of others, It's their actions that can cross the line, not their beliefs.

I respect mormons' right to believe wacky ideas until they come into my personal territory to tell me I am wrong and must also believe what they do. At that point they lose all rights of respect for their beliefs. They also lose the right to assume I must respect their actions, their choice of religion or to respect them as individuals.

We all need to go along and get along with all kinds of people.

But we have rights to expect the same consideration from others.

Beliefs are not so much a problem except when those beliefs turn into objectionable or hurtful actions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 08:52AM by Cheryl.

When it comes to respecting religion or not insulting religion, Pat Condell a few choice words.

Caution: May be offensive to some. No profanity, but in your face.

youtube.com/user/patcondell#p/u/10/1uTypnaP5X4

Agree with MJ above- I respect people's right to think or believe what they want, but I don't have to respect the person/organization itself. Why would I treat someone with respect when they are screaming in my face about my hellbound ways?

I don't have to accept, respect or honor their choice of behavior however, as it maybe criminal in nature, or dangerous to someone and need to be stopped.

Generally, we are all human beings doing what human beings do, it's not a matter of religious views, it's a matter of choice of behavior and all behavior is human behavior. Just as simple as that. Doesn't need to be complicated in my view.

I think we need to stop blaming religion also. Put the responsibility of the human behavior on the specific human no matter what it is.

I draw the line at respecting/excusing/tolerating certain actions that follow said beliefs, such as the psychologically harmful garbage I saw footage of on "Jesus Camp" (talk about emotional scarring!!) and female genital mutilation, "honor" killings, and the like. I don't give a holy hoohah if something's part of someone's belief pattern, if it hurts someone, I'll fight it, and I'll get in the perpetrator's face about it too.

No one can control what someone thinks in the privacy of their own minds, but if they hurt others, physically, mentally or emotionally, I will not stand idly by whilst polishing my more-tolerant-than-thou halo.