I work in WA state and have lots of LDS co-workers. They seem to accept my ex-Mormonism pretty well, all in all. But one of them today called me into his office and wanted to know the down-and-dirty of my leaving the church. I LOVE to talk about that phase in my life, so I opened up. I kinda hoped he was looking at real help, but it turned out that he was trying to get me back into the church. He said things like, "Well, you still really believe in it, right?" I said no, not at all, that there was not one redeeming quality about it. He said, "Well, you have to admit that it's good for the family." I really tried to squash that idea, bringing up how the church loves to use the temple to drive wedges, how they use our kids and elderly in inappropriate ways, how they steal time from the family. He even said, "But I think you accept Thomas Monson as a prophet, right?" I had to give it with both barrels then. It seemed to really shock him when I said that Monson has spent years doing nothing before being LDS prez, is doing nothing now and will likely go down in LDS history as not taking any stand at all--at least Hinckley had stood for not having too many piercings. I made sure I wasn't talking in a low voice, either, and he was a bit visually disturbed that others could hear me.

Anyway, it was great fun. He just shook my and and said that we all need to do what we feel is right. I told him that I'm more than willing to talk and that "I'll be here all week" if he has any more questions.

I love the anti-mishies!

At least we can be confident he will lose sleep tonight. Oh, well.

You're fortunate. At least he was willing to talk to you about why you left.

Most of us don't have that opportunity. The TBM's in my life have no interest in hearing what's motivating my departure from the fold.

not one person at church asked me why i left, not even my (seldom seen) home teachers and not even my bishop. they're either afraid or have been convinced that you're just "crazy"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 04:46AM by Nick Humphrey.

"Sin." "Pride." "Offence."

My co-worker started going down this same path with me, but I think I was able to stop him and correct him. I told him that left for the historical inaccuracies and the obvious effort by the LDS church to hide and revise its history. My sons left for entirely different reasons. The sin-pride-offence thing is a smoke-screen used by Mormon leadership to trivialize what we've gone through. I hope he got the message. He seemed simultaneously sincerely interested and shocked.

""Well, you have to admit that it's good for the family." I really tried to squash that idea, bringing up how the church loves to use the temple to drive wedges, how they use our kids and elderly in inappropriate ways, how they steal time from the family."

I love that response, Cludgie. Very simple and really says it all. I just hate it when people say that at least the church is good for families. The church did nothing but help me f*** up my family. It's taken me years to undo the damage, but we're getting there.

First you tell him you don't believe in it.

Then he says, "But I think you accept Thomas S. Monson as a prophet."

Do these people listen? Or are they just on automatic -- repeating stock phrases no matter what you say.

Come to think of it, isn't being a missionary learning to repeat stock phrases pretty much no matter what Mr. Brown says?

Its amazing how dense their brainwashed little minds are. Its like you have to repeat several times to get the message across that you REALLY, ACTUALLY DO NOT BElIEVE anymore. Its so unfathomable to them.

It really is unfathomable to them.

I had an exchange like this with a good TBM friend of mine that I've known for 20 years (although she promptly shunned me after this exchange). Her final question - but you know what's right and as a mother you know the church is the best place for kids...

NO actually I think it's the WORST place of all time for kids. Haven't you been listening to me?

so this co-worker called you into his office and wanted to know the down-and-dirty--


I know you enjoyed the chance to verbalize the truth with a TBM, but what I notice most was the gall of the co-worker calling you into his office to question you on your religious beliefs or non-beliefs and at work, too.

I have said it before, and I say it again, "Never be surprise when a Mormon acts like a Mormon. Be surprised when they don't.

O! By-the-way...Good for you, for not only holding your own, but for one up-man-ship!

You go! You didn't have to handcuff him to a chair to get him to listen?
I wonder if he was expecting something else?
Some lost confused down the dumps soul?
Unless he's jumping ship, I'd be surprised if he ever talks to you again.

I'm so jealous.

Seriously, I would love to have an opportunity like that.

"But you still believe....."

No.


"Yes you do"

No.

"Yes you do"

My temple name is (fill in the blank)

Horrified look on TBM's face as he scampers away from evil apostate who indulges in loud laughter and speaking ill of the lawrd's annointed revealing his super-secret name.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 01:43PM by caedmon.

You handled that very well...loved all his questions and your comebacks. I especially hate the "good for the family" thing. I know this is what gets many investigators in the door and then become converts. It is all about "a good way to raise a family".Hogwash....moms too busy to have a life, Mom's only interacting with their own kind, dad always gone, kids parroting things that are not true, told to have only Mormon friends, kids having to "be interviewed" by the Bishop without parents and many parents allow this- so incredible!!! It's a horrible way to raise children and live life as an adult.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 09:36AM by honestone.

LDS can't grasp the possibility, much less the reality, that family life outside the LDS Co-Prosperity Sphere is often on par or better than theirs.

You know how sometimes you swear you will say a certain thing, and then you forget? My answer line was always going to be, "Because the church is demonstrably false." I forgot to simply say that and build on that one point. I went hither and yon, but still stuck to my other lines. It's just that so much can be said with that one line, that the LDS church is demonstrably false. Other times I have pointed out that the time involved for an individual to debunk the church depends only on one's bandwidth and reading speed. I allowed myself to get derailed.

Sounds like a case of MFFS (Mormon Fragile Faith Syndrome):



What he said:

"Well, you still really believe in it, right?"
"But I think you accept Thomas Monson as a prophet, right?"





Tremors he felt deep down where the sun don't shine:

"Mormonism sure seems wanky. Maybe I can get ExMo Cludgie to make it all good for me."

He apparently actually thought non-belief in Mormonism was not even a possibility. He was going to find out the *real* reason you left, and fix it.

He at least now has a glimmer that there actually are people who understand Mormonism and still don't believe.

It's almost painful to watch somebody that brainwashed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 01:02PM by Brother Of Jerry.

He called you into his office?

Sorry - the HR person in me just had to jump on that one. In real life I get to play the heavy. I would do it gently "This has been going on for a while, some of us may have things we need to finish before 5, can you wrap it up?"

He's a pretty good co-worker and has helped me a lot, particularly when we have weird severe weather-related time sheets to fill out where we've all gotten various types of admin leave. He walks you through all the complications. Good guy, just otherwise ditzy over Mormonism.