I was raised TBM, so, of course, in YW all I ever heard about was how I was supposed to be a mother and wife and nothing else...and I never wanted that (maybe because it was forced on me as the only option?) Whenever one of our leaders would have a baby, the other girls would pass it around and seemed to enjoy holding it...and I just passed it to the next person. Never wanted anything to do with it. Between watching the Miracle of Life video in health class and babysitting, I was pretty sure I didn't want kids. Ever. Not that I don't like kids--on a case by case basis, there's some that I really enjoy (the type rarely found in Mormon wards--you know, kids that actually get enough attention from their parents and are well mannered and sweet) I'm still not crazy about babies. Can't get over that one.

So fast forward to, well, now. I think I'm changing my mind. Maybe its my clock ticking? I know my hormones are out of whack because the doctor told me so, so I keep that in mind when I start thinking that I might want a baby. DH will be 40 this year. He assures me that he's happy not having children, but sometimes I wonder. When we were dating he told me once that he wanted kids with his ex wife, but she was adamant about not having any (she had one from a previous relationship) and then as soon as they were divorced she got pregnant with her new boyfriend. I think that hurt him a little bit but he will never admit it to me. I asked him to get a vasectomy when we got married, and he declined, so I got an IUD. No permanent steps have been taken.

Pregnancy and childbirth really freak me out (I've seen plenty of them...human and cattle and horses and dogs...) I would adopt in a heartbeat. I would happily adopt a whole pile of kids from Haiti or the Phillippeans. It doesn't matter to me what they look like, but DH claims his dad wouldn't accept them if they didn't look like us (I think that means he wouldn't accept them, but I don't push the issue)

We're financially stable. No, we're far from rich but we live frugally and will be debt free in 6 years (mortgage and everything)

Any other gals have a change of mind about having kids? I think being raised TBM and having the issue forced on me really screwed up my thinking to the point that I don't know what I actually want.

Anyone else feel like there was WAY too much pressure in YW to have kids (and have them young, you know you can't leave those spirits waiting in the pre existence!) and didn't have a chance to find out what you really wanted?

And this is why no one takes the childfree seriously.

I changed my mind, but I went the opposite way. I used to want kids and now I don't think I do anymore. Luckily, it looks like my husband and I will be childless, mainly because he gave in to his ex's request that he get a vasectomy (which he later had reversed). For awhile, I felt kind of pissed about the fact that my husband gave up his fertility, especially when his ex went on to have two more kids with her third husband. But I think the main reason I don't want kids now is because I'm going to be 40 in a few months and feel like I'm too old. I also wasn't raised Mormon, so I never had that pressure to pop out kids. And, like you, I never felt particularly comfortable with babies.

I've come to the realization that we have a nice life. I don't want to screw it up.

While I love my kids, it was a long tough hall emotionally, mentally, financially etc.. My kids are now in their thirties and fourties. They waited until well into their thirties to have kids.

Having the grand kids has been great but honestly I am even exhausted watching my own kids negotiate parenthood. I have kept my mouth shut and been a good grand pa tending only occasionally.

My sister was like you. Never wanted children. Ended up with two (eight years apart) She was a miserable mom and still talks about hating it so much. From my present perspective I agree with her. She (and kids and husband) would probably have been better off had she chosen not to be a parent. She also divorced her husband after the kids were grown.

My wife was not good with the kids but is better with the the grand kids. Our kids are now OK with her but none of them have good memories of their mom while they were growing up. (In fact, they mostly have no memories about her). We are finally at a point where I think we can all say we are all happy. Like most people, I think we all made it just fine. Having a family makes you grow.

Over-all, I'd say you will be glad you have a child but know it will change your life. Good luck and maybe check in with a counselor (for both you and your husband before you take this step so you can both get mentally and emotionally prepared - if possible.)

I changed my mind and realized I didn't want any about 7 or 8 years ago. Frankly, I'm too selfish and self-centered to have a kid.
Something that amuses me is one of my Mormon friends always said she NEVER wanted to have kids and at the same time I was saying I wanted 4 or 5 when we were teenagers. Now she has 3 and i have none, unless you count my kitty, and I do. :)

I'm in my early 30's and I worry about the biological clock thing kicking in. I don't want to make that kind of decision because my hormones are screaming at me. Being a nanny to two very strong-willed children, however, is just about the best birth control ever.

The biological clock is a lie. It is a completely fabricated way of excusing irrational decision making. "I couldn't help it, it was my biological clock."
I am not saying that EVERYONE having kids is doing so without considering the consequences, I am saying that SOME people may not have enough of their own mind and get talked into having kids. If they are still reluctant, they can pass the blame onto an external force, the "biological clock".
"Didn't really want them, but the biological clock was ticking..."

Own it. The desire or lack of desire for children should not be passed off onto external forces.
I'm sure it allows some people to feel better about caving to the Life Script.

Kids who aren't really wanted DO pick up on it. How would anyone like to realize they were just a whim? Mommy thought she might be missing out on an "experience".
That little experience is inviting a stranger into your relationship.
If you don't have the burning desire to grow a good person, don't do it on a whim. Whims turn into annoying tweens and teens and fortysomethings living in your basement.

>>Kids who aren't really wanted DO pick up on it. How would anyone like to realize they were just a whim? Mommy thought she might be missing out on an "experience".

That little experience is inviting a stranger into your relationship.

If you don't have the burning desire to grow a good person, don't do it on a whim. Whims turn into annoying tweens and teens and fortysomethings living in your basement.<<


This is very true! From the time I was born, I was told I was an "accident". My mom told me that she was under the impression it would be hard for her to have me. I don't know why, since she had my three sisters before me! But when I was growing up, I heard all the time about how upset she was to be pregnant with me and what a PITA I was. It caused me a lot of angst. I would never want to put a child through that. It really hurts. Life is hard enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 11:53AM by knotheadusc.

I would have to take a year to think about such a life changing experience and get things in order both fiscally and physically. Like I said above, I recognize that I'm a little too self-involved to bring another life in this world.

I don't know whether the biological clock thing is a lie or not, but I sure as hell hope I don't get crazy ass hormones screaming at me to reproduce. Hopefully, there's a pill for that.

Didn't mean to direct my entire post at you. :)

But the biological clock is even more of a lie than that we need a savior.
Jesus himself may have existed, but a "biological imperative" is only true for creatures with no conscious thought. Unconscious creatures do not know that sex drive makes offspring. (I could argue that some fundies would like to deny this knowledge in order to keep the "magic" in procreating. Hello abstinence only!)

A bunch of you on here are now mightily offended, but I would say y'all are they who consciously desired children and thought about it, or had an accident and made the best of it, or chose to go without contraceptives and accept the results. Conscious decision making.
Own your decisions, they didn't come from the promptings of god, the devil, nor anything outside yourself aside from the partner who joined in the sexy fun time.

I'm a nevermo who never had pressure to have kids. I'm 44 and kidfree.

Like you, I like kids but I've never felt the urge, the need, the desire to have any of my own. I keep waiting for that biological clock to ring and whenever I see cute kids doing something sweet, I'll have that 'what if?' thought but it fades pretty quick when I think about how drastically my life would have to change to incorporate a dependent wee baby. And I like my life just as it is.

Kids are great, but being a parent does not appeal to me.

I was adamant about having one or two, but I just had our second and something inside changed. I want a larger family. I'm 37, so the chance to have more is slipping away and we won't wait too long to try for a third. Btw, I didn't get married until my early 30's. I've put my career on hold to stay home with the kids. I have the rest of my life to work, but only a few years left to have kids. Having children with my husband is the best thing for us.

It's one of the good things that came from being tbm for me. Although pregnancy was tough and all of my babies were difficult, I am in my element as a mother of older children (5, 7, 10, 12). I love it!

I will say, I do wish I waited to pop out babies. I was 20 when my first child was born. I have no college education, My life as an individual, and my husband and I as a couple, ceased to exist before it even took off. I would have loved to travel, to still be snowboarding, going to concerts...all the things I loved. All the money for that is tied up into these kids. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love them and enjoy them, but I could have had the best of both worlds if I had waited a bit longer.

Ultimately, you have to shut out every other voice, consider what life would be like for you if you were to become a mother, and listen to your intuition. Best wishes!

I can tell you my personal experience was that I loved being pregnant and childbirth was really easy for me. (I had my daughter, my second child, in less than two hours and delivered her in the labor room before the ER doctor made it up the elevator.) Infancy years were hard. Little ones are incredibly demanding and sleep is greatly disrupted, two realities I don't cope with all that well. As soon as they were walking, talking and potty trained it was great. Teen years were also hard. As adults now, my children and I are very close. I live with my son and daughter in law and my daughter calls me pretty much every day. I wouldn't trade either of my children for anything -- they were worth the hard times for sure and I think they're an asset to the human race.

And just a note, I'm a big baby when it comes to pain and discomfort. I expected to have a really tough time with childbirth. I cannot tell you how happy I was to be wrong on that count. :)

Not sure if you want input from a guy.

Children are a mixed bag. They are a lot of work. They drive you crazy at times - maybe even most of the time. They are a huge sacrifice and commitment

They also love you unconditionally - at least until they are teenagers :)

Children are both more difficult and more rewarding than can possibly be explained without experiencing it. You will grow in ways as a parent that won't happen any other way.

It's not uncommon to not like other babies/children, but to like your own. My wife was that way. Now that we are done having children she loves babies - kind of a strange change.

I'm very glad I have children and they have and continue to add a depth and meaning to my life that for me would be irreplaceable any other way.

My dad never said so, but I suspect he didn't care about having kids and just went along with it because mom was from a large family and wanted 4 of her own.

Dad played with us when we were little, but the hard parenting work always fell on mom. Then when we became difficult teenagers, he ignored us and our problems completely by always being busy in the workshop or garden.

Never got any kind of life advice from him and when we got in trouble, he'd just say we needed to do better. He always played the nice guy and let mom run things.

Looking back 25 years later, I can see why all of us kids struggled mightily when we first left the nest. None of us were well-prepared and ended up making crappy choices out of the gate.

It used to really confuse me how all of us did so well in high school, but seemed to fall on our faces standing on our own two feet as adults. Finally I had to admit none of us had much of a clue how to stand on our own two feet. We weren't very well prepared.

In contrast, I am extremely involved in my 10yo daughter's life. We talk a lot about the future and what it's like to be an adult. I want to do things very differently than my dad. With a nice foundation of life principles, I think I can help her not make the same mistakes and get left out of opportunities.

I only had 2--twins--and never was "able" to have more, though I did try. It is good I didn't. It wa shard enough to be a single mother of 2. AND like others have said--having children CHANGES YOUR LIFE. There is no turning back once you have them and THERE ARE days . . . even in their 20s (mine are 26) where you think, 'Oh my hell,--what have I done?"

Postpartum depression was the worst part of my pregnancy or was it the morning sickness--but I had bad morning sickness because of the twin pregnancy. I had motion sickness and rode in a vanpool to my job 1 hour each way.

Once the morning sickness was over--I loved pregnancy--especially feeling them move. Nothing quite like it. The delivery--mine was cesarean section.

I FEARED BIG TIME pregnancy and delivery. Once I took them home, it was A LOT harder. It took me a while to adjust. I had a very honest mormon woman tell me (most mormon women told me I had a problem because I wasn't happy being a mom to infants)--but this very molly mormon woman told me it always took her 9 months to get used to each child.

The pregnancy and delivery were NOTHING compared to raising them. Once mine hit 3, they becamse much easier as they always had a friend. I LOVED mine as teenagers. Actually, the hardest time I've had with my kids is them cutting the apron strings.

Well, ultimately, you have to consider what you're going to get and give. We found the 'sacrificing of self' part to be a crock of shit.
We have 4 kids, 10 & under. I love hanging with our kids! We've managed to arrange our week so that we get 3 days of nothing but family time, and we love it!
We go to concerts (we ALL are huge flogging Molly fans!), we party with our friends, we go out on dates...I guess if going out to dinner, getting totally snackered & making it in the backseat of the car counts as a "date"; certainly not by the correlation meeting/fireside then ice cream TBM type date! LOL. But we found that parenthood wasn't half the pain in the ass everybody made it out to be. I think that a lot of people think they're being funny, cute or witty by disparaging parenthood & their kids, but of all of the stuff that's a pain in the ass, being a parent doles out far more reward than what it costs. IMHO.

I always hated babysitting, and being around kids bored me silly. It was very different having my own. Can't describe it. Had my first at age 34. Loved them as babies, but the first three months were a hell of a lot of work and sleep deprivation. It got so much easier after that. With each new baby, the husband and I would joke about, but totally dread those first three months. We had three. I especially love them as teenagers and beyond. Not difficult. When I think of who I want to spend my time with, it's always one or all of them. All have great senses of humor and are not self centered. The worst times were when they fought with each other... at its worst during elementary school years. I still worked, but at an office in my home, so I was there all of the time with them. As much as I detest the Mormon model of women staying home, I think that working at my home office worked very well for us.

I'm not a woman, but hopefully my experience might help. I am extremely introverted and was raised in a family of six kids, and I really never wanted kids at all for many years. I was 36 when my wife told me that she wanted kids, so I agreed to make her happy. Even then I was still pretending to be excited when we went through fertility treatments and when she told me she was pregnant. But when he was born, I was very happy. I was the one who fed him formula twice a night and stayed up with him, and I have a really good relationship with him today. However, it was completely life-changing and so much work there were times when I didn't think I could do it.

Truthfully, I could have gone either way. I would have been perfectly happy to go my whole life without having children. But I'm happy to have a son now. He's a great guy and my best friend. I think if you want to have children, then the nurturing instinct will come to you, but if you decide against it, you won't have regrets either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 01:53PM by Makurosu.

Note: I never really liked my kids until they were about 18 months.

That was overstated hyperbole.

I mean I liked them ok and loved them, but for me they had to be more than a blob laying their before I felt a truly deep connection to them.

I think there are many reasons women form this connection more quickly.

My not having children breaks the cycle of abuse in my genetic line.

Something is just plain wrong with my maternal DNA.

I decided a long time ago that I would not make any child feel the way I felt while growing up. I still can't seem to jettison the baggage, why would I load anyone else up?

The church believes it has a monopoly on truth, righteousness, families...and having babies. They do not. Normal enough people everywhere are having babies.

The common theme here is that people change dramatically over time. Somehow we need to plan on huge changes.

I'm pro-baby and anti church so I say what better way to stick it to them than to have a small brood of human babies while raising a glass of wine in one hand and your middle finger raised on the other directed at SLC. Who knows maybe you would have loved having a kid or two earlier in life if TSCC hadn't given you a glimpse of the underbelly of family life.

I never had a burning desire to have kids. That might be because I grew up in a big family and hated the chaos and lack of attention. Dh was ambivalent, and he also came from a big family.

We waited until we were in our mid-30s to decide because of some specific life circumstances, and ended up having some infertility issues. We were unwilling to do any extensive infertility treatments and went on to adopting two kids.

They are terrific and I'm glad we did it. I also would have been fine being childfree. Kids do change your life completely, in some ways that are great and it other ways that are not so great. When I look at the money we spend on lessons and activities and what we are putting away for college, it's no wonder why money is tight.

I'm quite a ways away from acting on anything. #1 I'm working with my doctor to get my hormones balanced again (this could be a big part of suddenly feeling the need to reproduce) #2 I will be talking to a counselor. I usually go to one in the winter anyway because of SAD, but this will be something else to discuss. I think I need to figure out what I really want before I talk to DH.

I think that being raised LDS and going through the YW program really screwed me up (in more ways than this, but this is a big one) I'm very much like my horse. If you try to force her to do something, she fights back, and she's much bigger and stronger and its not a battle I can win. However, if I work with her quietly and let her think that what I'm asking is her idea, she goes right along with it. I think being told that I HAVE to have kids and that's the ONLY thing I'm supposed to do put me on the defensive.

I also don't want to be like my father. Sure, he loved us, but my mom had to force him to spend time with us when we were little. I'm sure he never changed a diaper. He was much better when we were teenagers--then we finally had a real relationship. I never had a daddy, but I had a father who was present, and I guess that counts for something. When I was 7, even though I was young, I could tell that my mom got tired of being a mom. She was very involved until that point. I think 3 kids was way too much for her (she wanted 6--I'm so glad she stopped!). She's apologized for making me raise myself (and to an extent, I really did) I'm afraid of becoming both of my parents--not having a meaningful relationship with a child, and getting so burned out and self absorbed that I'm not involved in its life the way I should be. Maybe these are normal feelings? Maybe not? I suppose these are all questions for the counselor.

I'm afraid of having kids, and I'm afraid of regretting not having them.

Thanks for all the input.

They know themselves. They have pro-actively ordered their lives and their likes and dislikes. They do and explore that which interests them.

This is in direct contrast to the parenting life in which everything is reactionary. It is kind of easy really because a parent doesn't necessarily have to try to figure out what is best for him or herself - only respond to the needs of the child.

On the other hand, if you have had a chance to live the life that does not have to be reactionary, possibly you are in a better position to decide whether or not you would actually like to try to conceive a child.

Good luck as you think this through.

I hated kids until I became about 19. I swore that I would never have any, because kids annoyed the crap out of me. But somewhere around that time I realized that I was just surrounded by kids who had been raised by morons. Once I realized that well-behaved kids were a joy to be around I was excited to have my own. I now have two, and they are a lot of work. However, that work pays off big time when you have kids that you adore.

I would say not to make a decision until you are 100% sure. It is too big of a commitment to jump into blindly.

I have nine children. Parenthood is a lot like being in the military. It wasn't what you thought it would be and it strengthens some while driving others crazy. There is no way out of it but through it once they have arrived, so there's character-building. You have to grow up and experience life larger than just doing what you choose to do.

It doesn't stop when they are eighteen, by the way, and you are blamed for their problems but not given credit for their strengths. This is a great lesson in life.

Children allow you to see the world through the eyes of innocence and wonder. You can't get that from going on cruises or having a BMW.

Looking at it objectively pros/cons, having more people you love increases your happiness and your sadness because you hurt when they hurt, you rejoice with them, etc. In my old age now, I live in a senior residents with children constantly visiting, which makes me the envy of everyone hear. "ANOTHER daughter? My, my, you certainly have a full life."

If you believe our life is here on earth, then make the most of it experience-wise. Educate yourself, travel, fall in love, have children, live fully while respecting others. And replace yourself in the world because it needs more people like you.
BTW, they won't be like you and you will love them anyway. This is the most curious thing of all.

Yesterday I was driving home from one of my daughter's house feeling such deep contentment. All my high school friends I was close too are dead, my extended family is dead or MIA, my marriages all failed. Yet I still can walk to the store with someone who says, "You're limping. Why are you limping?" Just having someone who notices, who cares, someone to love, makes life worth living. Don't forget, someday your spouse will die. Or you will, leaving him with...who?

My son was childless until 40. His two daughters are the light of his life. He quit some bad habits to be a better dad- habits that would have killed him over time. Wouldn't do it for himself, but wants to be here for the girls. He says it strengthened his partnership with their mother because it gave them a huge interest in common.

I say go for it. Life is for the living.

And, OMG, did I mention grandchildren? There is no better antidote for grumpiness and the happiness they bring--grandkids just light up your life. I spend three fun days selecting books and goodies to take to my grandchildren and the conversations we have are hilarious. My grandaughter asked me last time, "Grandma Kathy, are you everyone's mother?"

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You have 9 kids Ana?! No wonder you're so wise!!