I've recently become close to a guy I met through the church. He's an absolute dream...minus the fact that he still thinks the church to be true.
That wouldn't bother me if he actually lived the standards of the church. I know he gets drunk, and I know he likes to have sex...but he still believes TSCC is true, and attends church quite often. Sometimes I feel like I'm getting through to him, like he agrees with me that the church is BS...then he's back to talking about temple marriages.

My question is...How can you think the church is true but go against two of its main beliefs?

hey, it worked for Joseph.

If you're trying to safely remove yourself from the mormon life, then this ain't gonna work. I can promise you. You need to make a difficult decision. Forget him changing. You either wanna live free of mormonism or you wanna be involved in it. That's the way I see your current situation. He obviously can't come to terms with his freedom to live as he wants to. And that is a big red flag. He never will. My sister has been through this. It's a frustration for sure. I don't think he can break the chains. Maybe he's just yanking yours. Anyway, it's a sick joke to play on someone.

True Believing JackMos (TBJackMos) are the hardest to deconvert.

If he is anything like my wife, they believe the church is true based on feelings, rather than on any evidence, and as a consequence are very unlikely to consider evidence to the contrary to outweigh their feelings. As long as he *feels* the church is true, then it will be to him, no matter how well he actually lives the "commandments". And to compound matters, because he doesn't live the "commandments", he will not blame the church for his lack of blessings, lack of spiritual experiences etc - he will always blame himself. Afterall, it is him who is not living worthily.

It is easier to convince somebody that has given 110% and is still disenfranchised, than somebody who has never committed to living an LDS lifestyle. The latters knows they haven't really tried, feel guilty, blame themselves, get depressed, and believe that *MORE CHURCH* is the only solution. The former understand that more church isn't possible, and therefore the problem must be the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2012 06:41AM by freeman.

One of the reasons they're so hard to de-convert is that they're having it both ways.

"Whee, I get to enjoy the sins and still consider myself a Mormon. I'll give up the sins someday, maybe when I'm old, and everything will be okay."

To Elaine Dalton:

You wrote>I've recently become close to a guy I met through the church. He's an absolute dream...minus the fact that he still thinks the church to be true.
That wouldn't bother me if he actually lived the standards of the church. I know he gets drunk, and I know he likes to have sex...but he still believes TSCC is true, and attends church quite often. Sometimes I feel like I'm getting through to him, like he agrees with me that the church is BS...then he's back to talking about temple marriages.

My question is...How can you think the church is true but go against two of its main beliefs?<

Question #1-How is this guy "an absolute dream"?

Question #2-Why would you want this guy?

Question #3-You call it a TSCC, yet you are meeting men through it...Why?

Question(s) #4-Don't you know that Mormon men are looking for someone "white and delightsome"? Read Brigham Young's thoughts on those with mixed blood and ask yourself why you would ever step inside of a Mormon church?

At your age, you should be stretching your wings and sampling what life has to offer that is good for you. Leave the "messed-up ones" to their havoc. Think about this-If you allow people with baggage into your life, they will bring and dump that baggage on you. Screen those that you let into your life as throughly as an employer would screen an employee.

In other words look to your own Topic and read it this way:
Don't want to be frustrated, don't let this mentality into your life.

"old woman steps down from soapbox and hobbles away"

I met him over a year ago while I was still active. He's just a really great guy, if he would let himself be himself then he would be perfect.

I never understood the baggage thing. Actually I think it's unfair. I think I have a TON of baggage, does that mean a guy shouldn't date me? Or am I understanding it wrong?
Either way thanks for the advice :)

Having expectations about someone else is the most painful thing we do to ourselves. Your baggage has nothing to do with his baggage, and, more importantly, how you react with it.

It’s not selfish to want things, and it’s even mature to really know what you want. If this supposedly one thing bothers you about this otherwise perfect person now, just times it by ten, and don’t forget to multiply it, so that you can more accurately estimate what being married to this person would be really like.

He doesn’t have to change to be perfect. He is as he is. Please consider the real problem here, your view of him and how you want to change him. Lots of future pain there.

Have you asked him directly why he says he believes in the church and yet doesn't keep the rules? I think you have to be 100% honest and direct with him. I think you also have to express your true feelings and thoughts to him at all times.

Yeah, I did it too... lived with the man on and off for about a year and a half while he didn't attend church or anything and I thought all was well.

Then one day his question slammed me: "Isn't it time we went back to the church?"

HUH?!

I believe now, that because he didn't attend church, he was OK with having sex and drinking alcohol. He was pretending the whole time to go along with me because deep down, ingrained in his being was the good old TBM spirit.

Get away from this guy.

This guy is absolutely lacking in integrity and is a liar. Run!

I have a brother who was ex-communicated from the church 20 years ago for having an affair. He and his wife ended up getting a divorce. We used to be fairly close, and at various times since his being ex'd, he expressed to me how hard he was trying to get re-baptized, ie., he was meeting with his bishop, reading the scriptures, going to church, etc etc. But he never made it back in, and still hasn't to this day. When I asked him why, if he really did believe it was true, he didn't do what it took to get back in, he told me, and I quote, "I can't keep my d!ck in my pants."

What!? Really? So yeah, he believes the church is true, or claims to anyway, but can't control his sexual urges.

So anyway, we hadn't talked in a very long time, as we live in different states now and have sort of drifted apart. Still, I thought I could talk to him about the things I discovered about the church, but to my dismay, he was just as close-minded about it as any of the other TBM's in the family. That took me by surprise.

The tentacles of the brainwashing burrow deep and hold strong.

It could be the result of his buying into the oft-repeated churchism, "The church is perfect; the people are not." In his mind, he may think of himself as an imperfect member who belongs to the perfect church.

The church is true -- to the believers. However, there are those that consider themselves too weak to live the commandments.
Sounds like nearly all religions to me~!

Inauthenticity is about the #1 thing that makes my wang go limp.

If you're a cult member, the for God's sake be a passionate, committed cult member and behave accordingly. If it's not working, then either your beliefs or behavior must change.

Live what you believe. I have more respect for rabid TBMs than for JackMos.

So you marry mr. wonderful. Life is perfect. Then you have a baby. All hell breaks loose. It is a commandment to raise your children in the church. If you don't its on your head. He's demanding that the child be raised mormon. If you won't, he will. Divorce.

This is so so typical. They will start a relationship with a girl agreeing that the church is Bull Sh*t. They drink & party & have fun. They fall in love. Then boy changes rules.

He wants to repent. BOO HOO!!!!

He wants the church in his life BOO HOO!!!!!

Bishop will screw with his life. Church will screw with his life.

Welcome to the cult.