http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53408134-78/church-lds-mormon-faith.html.csp

Some of the things TSCC leaders say in this article should get some reaction here!

Warning, you will either gag, howl with laughter, cringe with disgust, vomit, rant uncontrollably or all of the above if you read the the link above.

The end of the article has him saying that there is no massive exodus and that activity was at an all time high.

We JUST had another thread a few days ago where Jensen admitted that there WAS a mass exodus right now.


Ah ha!!!!! Busted, you naughty general authority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2012 01:17AM by Raptor Jesus.

Yeah, I heard him talk about it on the audio posting from a discussion at Utah State just a few weeks ago. Some well-meaning TBM asked something like, "Is the Church addressing the stuff on Google about Mormons?" and "Are the Bretheren aware?"

He responded with something like, "Yes, the Bretheren are aware and there's a large number of people leaving the church because of it. We're going to launch a website to address a lot of this stuff."

The SL Tribune article says the exact opposite of the audio clip. Seems to be "Lying for the Lord."

It would be nice to put both links in one thread.

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/5iKOuShH9D/ElderJensenQandAInterlacedEdited.mp3

http://mormon-chronicles.blogspot.com/2012/01/rescue-plan-to-address-difficulties-of.html?m=1

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE80T1CP20120130?irpc=932

So! Which is it, Jensen? Did you get your ass chewed out by your bosses to make you lie?

In SL Trib, Jensen says, "I have heard that our overall activity, especially in the United States, is as good as it’s ever been."

In audio (still looking for link, transcript of juicy stuff below), Jensen says, "We never have had a period of, I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having right now."

Uh, contra"dick"tory.


*****************

Church historian, Elder Marlin Jensen recently held a Q&A session at Utah State University. Elder Jensen has been a general authority of the church since 1989. He currently is a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy. Since 2005, he also has been the Church Historian and Recorder of the church.

A questioner asked, “Has the church seen the effects of Google on membership? It seems like the people who I talk to about church history are people who find out and leave quickly. Is the church aware of that problem? What about the people who are already leaving in droves?”

Jensen's response:

“The fifteen men really do know, and they really care. And they realize that maybe since Kirtland, we never have had a period of, I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having right now; largely over these issues. We do have another initiative that we have called, “Answers to Gospel Questions”. We are trying to figure out exactly what channels to deliver it in and exactly what format to put it in. But we want to have a place where people can go. We have hired someone that’s in charge of search engine optimization. We realize that people get their information basically from Google. They don’t come to LDS.org. If they get there, it’s through Google. So, we are trying to create an offering that will address these issues and be available for the public at large and to the church leaders, because many of them don’t have answers either. It can be very disappointing to church members. And, for people who are losing their faith, or who have lost it, we hope to regain to the church.”


seems like the internet helps expose the false teachings of the Mormons the ones they try to hide.

Public Relation message of Mormonism is designed to attract the general public by offering "everlasting happiness and fulfillment." Then the missionaries are sent to ask, "do you want to know more about the gospel of Jesus Christ?" But just as the iceberg is about 10% visible to the eye, so the Mormon missionary lessons represent only a small, visible part of Mormon doctrine.
The missionary stratagem of withholding information is exposed by quoting page 9 of the "stake mission handbook" published by the Mormons:
"The standard missionary discussions, when they are taught by the spirit, lead investigators carefully and systematically to a knowledge of these truths. Other portions of the gospel should generally be left to instruction and study after baptism. The Lord has instructed ,'And of tenets thou shall not talk, but thou shalt declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea , even the Holy Ghost' ( Doctrine and Covenants 19:31 )
It is evident that Mormon authorities are commanding an inadequate representation of Mormonism by intentional concealment of their beliefs. this designed omission acts as a virtual fraud on the individual, manipulating then into the waters of baptism and membership into Mormonism. Mormon authorities feel justified in this deception because they believe they are "legal administrators" of the "only true church on the face of the earth" and, therefore, know what is best for all mankind.

why can't these guys shoot straight? Sound like a bunch of damn politicians.

choco ration is going up

++good

Jensen was fired from the Seventy and as the Church Historian two weeks ago. Coincidence? Maybe we should all go in on some flowers for the poor guy. That's what he gets for being honest.

How can LDSinc leaders be so retarded as to be quoted saying, "If you tell a 12 year old that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon with a peep stone looking into a hat they will think it is cool or something..."

WTF? Since when do 12 year olds think its cool to look at a peep stone? The word sounds ridiculous......peep stone. Sounds like a Peeping Tom......and they think people will be happy about membership in a church like that. They are so out of touch with American culture.

I found this statement striking:

"The church 'has made no effort to hide or obscure its history', Jensen said".

Huh???

“The church is concerned about misinformation and distorted information" .... huh ?

LD$ Inc. is the source of the misinformation and distorted information !

The article panders and promotes mormon lies.

Fing Outright, BOLDFACE LIE!

Ummmm Let's begin with the contents of the FP Vault, O.K.?

EVERYTHING from the past is "history"!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2012 02:55AM by guynoirprivateeye.

is lds history the straw that breaks the camels back? Sometimes we need to clear excess clutter out of our lives and that can mean the lds church. The church's history often confirms that voice in the back of your head that says, this is just nonsense.

Late last year, the church’s publishing arm, Deseret Book, put out No Weapon Shall Prosper: New Light on Sensitive Issues to address some of the hot-button issues of Mormon history and doctrine, offering members ways to answer critics.


Has anyone seen this?

This quote:

The best way to prevent this from happening, Bushman said, is to give Mormons “the whole story from the beginning. If the disruptive facts are worked into the history Latter-day Saints learn as they grow up, they won’t be turned upside down when they come across something negative.”

Indeed, said Givens, “if you tell a 12-year-old child that Joseph Smith used a ‘peep stone’ in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon, he’ll think that’s cool or interesting.”

--

Ok, he's got a point. The weird stuff could be normalized by including it in the brainwashing material of 12-year olds. However, facts are facts. They can't change DNA. They can't change horses & chariots. They can't change the BoA being the Book of the Dead. They can't change world facts. But they could abandon the parts that contradict facts, such as the BoM, BoA, miracles, etc.

Of course, it would just be another lousy church then, instead of a cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2012 07:28AM by Jesus Smith.

Jesus Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This quote:
>
> The best way to prevent this from happening,
> Bushman said, is to give Mormons “the whole
> story from the beginning. If the disruptive facts
> are worked into the history Latter-day Saints
> learn as they grow up, they won’t be turned
> upside down when they come across something
> negative.”
>
> Indeed, said Givens, “if you tell a 12-year-old
> child that Joseph Smith used a ‘peep stone’ in
> a hat to translate the Book of Mormon, he’ll
> think that’s cool or interesting.”
>
> --
>
> Ok, he's got a point. The weird stuff could be
> normalized by including it in the brainwashing
> material of 12-year olds. However, facts are
> facts. They can't change DNA. They can't change
> horses & chariots. They can't change the BoA
> being the Book of the Dead. They can't change
> world facts. But they could abandon the parts
> that contradict facts, such as the BoM, BoA,
> miracles, etc.
>
> Of course, it would just be another lousy church
> then, instead of a cult.


My thoughts exactly! They can reframe Smith all they want but it doesn't diminish the problems they have with their foundational scripture which is clearly fictional.

The quote that real got me was Robert Millet saying, "We are fully persuaded that mormonism is not only true and faithful but also reasonable."

"Fully persuaded???" That is spin talk. That is having your fingers crossed behind your back talk.

I hate to hope it, but maybe the G.A.s do finally all have their fingers crossed behind their backs.

There are certainly ways to frame the presentation of repressed history, but not all of it.

Far too much of that repressed history is tied into revealed scripture. Polygamy certainly, what with the original section 101 and current 132. The other historical changes to the Book of Commandments to the current D&C.

The FV discrepancies, the times and context of their revealing to the public are not something easily reframed. And why is the current version in the PoGP cannonized over the others?

No, any efforts to be more forthcoming will still be inadequate as a whole.

If they are totally forthcoming, then the Church will retain only a tiny population of remaing faithful.

They're just stuck.

In the interest of openness "the church" in the 1970's opened the historians office resources and even allowed access to the first pres vault. The goal was to replace the "Doc. Hist. of the Church" with new scholarly works. It was to be a multi-volume set. When the drafts began coming in the project was dropped and publication of manuscripts declined. Access was rescended. D. Michael Quinn, in my mind one of the heros of truth, founded Signature Books to provide outlet for some of these works.

The statement that THE CHURCH does not supress history or truth is a bold faced lie of the greatest proportions. Shame!

Until the church values truth over loyalty, people will leave Mormonism. The church should open their financial records, vaults containing its history, etc. Let the chips fall where they may. People are tired of the duplicity, spin, etc. Church leaders need to openly receive criticisms from their members. In today's world most people won't roll over and take it anymore.

"We must never see the day when the public square is not open to religious ideas and religious persons," Elder Oaks has said. I would ask then what good is the public square if it is not used? Perhaps leaders of the LDS church could participate in civil discourse in the public square and be open to discussion, questions and critical thinking there. It seems as though the LDS Church does what is can to avoid the public square unless they get to control the forum.