Here is how I see it and I'm sure some of you will not agree but here goes. In my opinion the church has seen this coming for a loooooooooooong time. Now that people are leaving and the church's history can't be hidden and lied about any longer they are going to spin, spin, spin. Does anyone here but me think that the church isn't beyond messing with their own historical material in that stupid vault?? What have they been doing in there all these years besides keeping others out? Hoffman isn't the only one that knows how to forge shit! Who cares about if there is 5 million active members instead of 14 million? Facts like those will be totally excused by the rank and file if the church pulls out "original"(said sarcasticly) documents that supports whatever views the church will try and defend.My point is that I feel that a decietful lying cultish religion will go to whatever lengths to save face, position, money and power. One other point as I proof this thing...A thought that I had the other day, All the points that we discuss and clerify day after day. And the church goes into denial about things or tries to go into some lying diatribe or some incomprehensible explanation about something. It can get pretty confusing sometimes to try and unravel rebut after rebut after rebut to the point where a persons reasoning abilities can really take a beating. I'm not a stupid person but sometimes it gets to the point where I feel like if your not a professional historian or a doctor of philosophy or psychology or have an extremely high IQ you will, after reading a few doctrinal back and forths just walk away from your computer scratching your head more confused.I mean I really love this board and usually only read. I guess sometimes I wonder how much resolve most people have about finding real truth. Sometimes I just get emotionally burnt out. I most always leave this board at the end of the day with truth coursing through my head. And I am glad I was curious enough to look and find real answers. But sometimes I am anxious and sad. Man, what a waste of time and emotions and life I spent in this church. All my hopes were wrapped up in this fraud. Sorry to be all over the map on this post. Sometimes my thoughts just kind of burst out and evolve as I write. Ok-fire away people. Wantthetruth

Yes, it's very frustrating to think of the years we put in to support a fraud. I spent my prime years of adulthood stuck in their grasp-age 22-53. All we can do is look to a brighter future. Post more; it may be helpful to you.

I see this as a real possibility. They will do whatever it takes to keep the lie alive. Integrity isn't their strong suit.

There is much to be said for this point of view: Ultimately you want to be where I was regarding the church when I was a Nevermo: Sheer and total indifference toward the LDS church. Rarely thought about the church. Didn't give a $4!t one way or another about it. Whenever I did consider it (two or three times maybe in my whole life) I recognized it right away as an obvious fraud ("Look! A Golden Bible that is conveniently gone now, taken by an angel. Follow me and have plural wives!").

Uh-huh.

Many more interesting things in this short and fascinating life than to study, figure out, and understand Mormonism or Mormons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2012 07:44PM by derrida.

Perhaps you end up more confused after studying "THE CHURCHES" long and incomprehensible explanations is because they know that, "When words are many, offiscation is not far behind."

You bring up several very good points. Today I was thinking about the confusion of Mormons trying to make all the pieces fit. I listened to John Dehlin's speech to members regarding apostates. It is very illuminating to hear a member who has carved out a niche for himself as an expert understanding and dealing with "them" and "those people" who have left.

Basically, his unique claim is that our anger and upset actually stem from the church HIDING these ugly facts (the printing press, Joseph being a treasure hunter, Joseph being a drinker, Joseph being a liar, Book of Abraham, Mark Hofmann, Mountain M....you get the idea). He says the shock of hearing it is the reason we end up defecting. None of the facts which seem to undermine the truthfulness of the church or the scriptures are valid "because there are rational explanations" which "lots of members who know more than you" have accepted.

I laughed out loud when I heard this and his closing piece of advice for Mormon leadership, "Perhaps the emphasis should not be so much on the true-ness of things."

Dabbing my eyes,

Anagrammy

Whatever we do, let's not seek the truth! Has John Dehlin heard of "Know the truth and the truth shall set you free?" Guess not. If we don't emphasize the true-ness of things, then what do we focus on, the false-ness? Like TBMs do? GAG!!!! I'll pass.
Where can I hear this John Dehlin speech? I want to laugh like Anagrammy.