I probably would still not go back to the fraud, if they did the following, but for me to even consider going back, they need to first...

The church will no longer dictate to me what kind of underwear I or my loved ones must wear.

The church will no longer tell me how much I must donate to its coffers, but will allow me to donate based on my conscience alone.

The church will allow local units to keep the bulk of donations that the local units generate, and will give all excess money at the end of the year to programs that directly assist the poor or needy.

The church will no longer make insulting statements on race, and will admit that all such insulting statements made in the past are not true. This will include an apology to blacks for claiming they are marked with the curse of Cain, and aboriginal Americans, for asserting that they were Hebrews suffering from a curse.

The church will cease the insult to our eldest dead ancestors, all those millions who died before six thousand years ago, whose memory the church tarnishes by insisted that they had never existed. We know they existed, and that we are from them, and we have a duty to respect and honor them, even if we shall never have a specific record of them. To me this is the most insulting of the whole, the earth is only six thousand years old crap.

The church will cease to dictate what I put into my body, and will no longer try to dictate a flawed health plan based on long ago disproved theories of medicine from the age of leeches.

The church will no longer tell me to keep a years worth of food, will admit that such excessive amounts are a mistake, and a great waist. The church may maintain large stocks of food for disaster relief, so long as it is rotated, and sent willingly when needed.

The church will hire back all the janitors, and will never ask me to clean the chapel, unless I am either receiving a paycheck, or I am solely responsible for the entire mess.

Most importantly, The church will no longer insult our women, by claiming they are less capable then men, and assigning them to secondary supportive roles, when they are clearly equals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 11:23AM by forbiddencokedrinker.

What's worth going back to exactly?

Why would those things being fixed make you go back?

It would still be a fraud even if they fixed those things. Those issues simply make it easier to spot the scam.

Your right, I probably still wouldn't go back, I just wanted to make a list of some of the things I don't like about the church.

OK then here's a few more:

The church no longer calls local neighbors into leaderships positions telling everyone else in the ward that they are god's mouthpiece and that you need to bow to their authority - opening the door to all kinds of abuse when the wrong type of person is called.

The church no longer gives you so much "should" that you are up to your eyeballs drowning in "should". (I mean even if you are living pretty much everything they make sure you still feel guilty about not having enough food storage, not doing enough geneology, not writing in your journal enough, not being spiritual enough on Sunday, something.)

The church no longer says that scriptures are literally true where god makes a teenager hear a voice to chop off someones head, god hates man so much that he drowns the entire human race except one family, god makes a bear kill 50 kids because they call someone bald, god kills someone because they dare touch his altar trying to keep it from falling, god sadistically tells someone to kill his own son and then says, just kidding, etc., etc.

I agree with you about those being things I don't like about the church.

Summed up those things can all be listed under the catagory of Human Rights Violations and Cult Control tactics.

But, if they were "fixed" you would be returning to something other than the MoCult we've all come to know and despise.

they can't go back and give me back the trauma that my ex, my kids, and I went through and all the other gays, wives and ex-wives of gays, and their children went through. That bell has already been rung.

Before I had for sure determined I didn't believe--my mother asked me if I'd ever go back and I said, "How can I support an organization that has destroyed so many lives?" My mother understood as my parents watched the disaster that became my life--with me being their golden child--the one they never thought would leave mormonism.

The damage mormonism has done to people goes far beyond my situation, too. NOTHING could get me to go back.

Which things exactly worth going back to cannot be experienced satisfactory outside of it?

Once we are on the road to recovery from being indoctrinated in a cult mindset and thinking, I believe that there is a real difficult time in going back or even visiting nicely. For a few of us in the cult the damage is too deep and some have suffered PTSD which would bring about a flight or fight response to trying to "go back".

I would think that most people leaving a cult would NEVER go back no matter what ever changed. Just think of the absurdity of a survivor of the Jonestown mass suicide in Africa saying they would go back if they just changed a few things......Really? I doubt if they could actually do it with having survived it.

I for one would never take a suicide oath and promise to cut open my neck (cut off my head) or cut open my stomach to disembowel myself for a suicide death as a penalty for revealing oaths. It is all so morbid and disgusting that I could never go back.

but that's not germaine to this thread.

I love your comment here:

"The church will cease the insult to our eldest dead ancestors, all those millions who died before six thousand years ago, whose memory the church tarnishes by insisted that they had never existed. We know they existed, and that we are from them, and we have a duty to respect and honor them, even if we shall never have a specific record of them. To me this is the most insulting of the whole, the earth is only six thousand years old crap".

Exactly. Humans, like you and me, have been around for about 200,000 years. They invented language, taught themselves how to write, created art, civilization. There was a time around 70,000 years ago when they nearly went extinct. They suffered through the last ice age. Nothing else compares.

I'm entirely fascinated by early humans. These 4-foot people survived in a world of mammoths, cave bears, and saber-toothed tigers during an ice age using only their wits and intelligence. How many modern humans would really be capable of that?

Unlike many on this board I liked the social aspect of being a Mormon. I've been "out" for over three decades but sometimes I still have a nostalgic feeling when I drive by a ward house.

The main thing they'd have to do to get me back would be to accept ME as I am.

Now this would entail allowing me to participate with my thoughts, knowledge, insights, feelings during Sunday School classes etc. That would include reasons why the BOM is obviously fiction, why the BOA is also fiction, and that, in my opinion JS was a total scumbag.

When they allow and accept ME as part of the fold then I think I could get along with them.

Of course all the other stuff would follow, I'd gladly point out that I don't wear the underwear and if they gave me a home teaching route, I'd gladly share my insights with those I home teach. I wouldn't let them get away with telling me a "calling" is "inspired," or how much I have to donate.

But that's not going to happen. So it's a moot point.

...in a country with fantastic year-round weather, lots of beautiful women, excellent food & adult beverages, and it was all free.

Otherwise, it has nothing I want.

pigs fly

I'd convert if TSSC tithed 10% of their income to me.

If they let me drink alcohol and coffee, and made tithing voluntary, and gave me back my choice of underwear... then I *STILL* wouldn't go back, because I can do all of that right now anyway!

There are really only two things that Mormonism offers that is missing from my life right now - 1) a ready made social club and 2) professional networking. Yet the more I think about it, the more I realise that 1) I don't want to socilise with Mormons and 2) I don't want to work for Mormons, have Mormons work for me, or ever owe a Mormon anything, ever again!

If it stopped jerking off to old scriptures and men?

I would return to mormonism if they focused on being good people instead of just following the church's rules, just like phariseys

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me...


TSCC lied. Therefore, everything it claims to be is a lie.

Nothing would make me want to go back. God himself coming down from heaven? I'd check myself into a psychiatric treatment center for delusions...

And it would have to change into something all together different than what it is. I can not think of a single thing that would not have to change.