Note: my friend is not LDS - I'd guess Len is, and is hot and bothered by what I wrote.

The OP is a link to an article title "Who Gives More to Charity, Obama, Romney, Gingrich or Santorum?" http://front.moveon.org/who-gives-more-to-charity-obama-romney-gingrich-or-santorum/#.T0QcGO0bccI.facebook

Answer, according to article: Obama 14.2%, Romney 13.8%, Gingrinch 2.6% and Santorum 1.8%


Here it is, with actual names changed.
Serena: What "charities" are they including? I wouldn't call tithing to the Mormon organization a charity...
13 hours ago · Like

Len: Oh, I don't know. Before Katrina even made landfall, there were multiple semi-trucks heading to New Orleans loaded full of water and food and blankets and personal hygiene kits all bought or prepared with 'tithing' by Mormons . . .
12 hours ago · Like

Len: I think if you actually investigate the ratio of dollars that actually get to those in need to administrative costs the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is tops compared to other charities, especially when you consider that they do not have paid clergy. . .
12 hours ago · Like

Len: More: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-clarifies-aid-to-international-relief-organizations
Expand preview
12 hours ago · Like

Len: And more: http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/topic/humanitarian-services
Expand preview
12 hours ago · Like

Len:
To be fair, all of my comments above refer to Humanitarian Aid. Tithing, as such, is separate in our church and is used for maintainence of buildings and building new buildings. Again, the vast majority of those who serve in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are volunteers. We do not have paid clergy, so tithing doesn't go to support those who are in positions of leadership. If tithing is not charity in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, then it isn't tithing in any Church, and that excludes a LOT of charitable giving.

Duh! Tithing builds malls! The non paid clergy need a new Macy's

Salary or living stipend, it's all the same!

How has the top leadership supported themselves all these years? Yep, you guessed it - salary!

Tell Len to stop telling people that there is no paid clergy!

Then, he should concede to you, Serena.

I don't know, but if the Lord requires 10% why would the church itself not tithe on the tithes they receive 10%? And why would the church not tithe on their gross earnings from all the companies they own? Maybe they do. They do not open their financial records. Tithing is an old testament teaching and after Christ came he fulfilled the old law and we are no longer bound to it or to any man made religion. If one chooses to follow Christ, we are to follow Him and no one else.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 01:22PM by suckafoo.

Biggest false statement right here: "tithing doesn't go to support those who are in positions of leadership"

It's true that tithing doesn't go to support local leadership, but general authorities receive a generous salary, and the Big 15 receive a REALLY generous salary. Also on the tithing payroll include CES people, PR department, administration, and pretty much everybody at BYU. If you want an idea of how many people are getting paid by tithing dollars, just look at the church office building and imagine how many people you could fit inside. Then throw in the Joseph Smith memorial building. Then, drive down to BYU, walk around, and imagine how many people must be working there. Then think about the general authorities abroad. That's just man-labor.

I feel like I can't think efficiently today - my sinuses are so sore and full; am getting a CT later today. Poor me, I know (sarcasm included).

No problem. The biggest difference between the LDS church is that other churches don't have such a centralized heirarchy, and thus their money goes to the local clergy instead.

The money goes to SLC and magically pays for stuff the Q15 need

"Len: I think if you actually investigate the ratio of dollars that actually get to those in need to administrative costs the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is tops compared to other charities, especially when you consider that they do not have paid clergy. . ."

I love this one. And how pray tell would Len suggest we investigate this? LDS, Inc. doesn't exactly make that information available.

INCOME --BUT PROBABLY MORE..

4 million tithe payers =

$ 2,500 per year (averaged out by Rich Folks --MILLIONS BY ROMNEY AND HUNTSMAN AND TANNERS AND MLM PRESIDENTS & Poor Folks $100 BY INDIVIDUALS IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES)

**$10 BILLION per YEAR**

+ Business income from Corporations, Deseret Book, HUGE ACREAGE FARMS, Zion's Bank -- Business Investments -Land Investments **$ 5 BILLION**.

TOTAL $15,000,000,000. OR IN OTHER WORDS ***$15 BILLION***

Welfare expenditure -- $ 15 million --

THIS EQUALS = 1/10 of 1%

REALLY GENEROUS HUH !! EVEN AT $150 MILLION IT'S STILL ONLY 1%

JB

Ask him for a link to the LDS financial statements that show where the dollars are going and be ready to post links to the financial statements from other churches in response.

I couldn't figure out how to link to other posts, so I just copy and pasted the following by Erik K. The point is that what they give vs what they take in from donations is pathetic. Its like a billionaire bragging about donating a million dollars. Its pocket change change compared to what he actually has. PER MEMBER the Morgs humanitarian efforts are very small.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Their lack of humanitarian aid is disgusting - especially for a so called church

The link provided by rt is interesting. Take a look at the bottom right corner which is a summary of all of their "aid"

Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985-2009)
Cash Donations $327.6 million
Value of Material Assistance $884.6 million


The value of material assistance is a wild guess from materials donated by members and not directly out of the church's pocket. We will assume that it actually came from the church directly for simplicity.

Let's look at the numbers.

Total number of years: 15 years
Total amount of aid: $1,212.2 million

Amount of aid per year: 1,212,2 / 15 = $80.8 million

Let's assume an average of 12 million members of the church over that 15 year time span.

$80.8 / 12 = $6.73 per member given in charitable aid per year!!!

Are you disgusted yet? How many thousand of dollars did most of us give in tithing and did so faithfully for years. Where did all this money go? Shopping malls. Resort hotels. Hunting preserves for the wealthy and for general authorities. etc.

Mormons should have their own occupy movement and quit paying tithing until the books are opened. The media should demand openness of a non-profit organization. If you wish to have a non-profit organization to avoid paying taxes, the records should be open to all. The true nature of the Mormon church will be revealed. It is a soul sucking money grubbing corporation. Most for profit public corporations give more charitable aid per employee than this so called church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 08:18AM by Eric K.

--------------------------------------------------------

Actually, it gets worse...

1985 to 2009 equals 25 years.

Cash equals 13,104,000 or about a $1.00 per member per year.

Even with 'material assistance' included (not tithing) it amounts to only $4.00 per member per year.

Regards,
Iconoclast



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 03:38PM by Iconoclast.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Actual numbers (1985 -2009) from a church publication

This is also posted under Nick Humprey's thread. This is repeated and shortened here since we have so many visitors and it is impossible to read all the threads as the board moves quickly.

Their lack of humanitarian aid is disgusting - especially for a so called church.

http://www.providentliving.org/welfare/pdf/WelfareFactSheet.pdf

Humanitarian assistance rendered (1985-2009)
Cash Donations $327.6 million
Value of Material Assistance $884.6 million


The value of material assistance is a wild guess from materials donated by members and not directly out of the church's pocket. We will assume that it actually came from the church directly for simplicity.

Let's look at the numbers.

Total number of years: 15 years
Total amount of aid: $1,212.2 million (cash 327.6 + materials 884.6)

Amount of aid per year: 1,212,2 / 15 = $80.8 million

Let's assume an average of 12 million members of the church over that 15 year time span.

$80.8 / 12 = $6.73 per member given in charitable aid per year!!!

Are you disgusted yet? How many thousand of dollars did most of us give in tithing and did so faithfully for years. Where did all this money go? Shopping malls. Resort hotels. Hunting preserves for the wealthy and for general authorities. etc.

Mormons should have their own occupy movement and quit paying tithing until the books are opened. The media should demand openness of a non-profit organization. Most for profit public corporations give more charitable aid per employee than this so called church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 08:51AM by Eric K.

Is tithing really charitable giving when the church expects, no, lets rephrase that, COMMANDS its members to give them 10% of their income? Giving because you are expected to and giving because you actually want to help people in need are two very different things. Tithing does not go to people in need. Tithing goes to the church's building program and a large portion of it subsidizes BYU. Humanitarian aid is a separate category. Tell your friend to take a look at those little yellow tithing slips. I would argue that a large part of Romney's 13.8% is his temple-entrance annual dues[tithing], and not actual charitable giving.