Based on the money that my father gave to my weaker siblings, I say that I have lost about twenty thousand dollars in potential gifts. My father is wealthy. I also lost the love of my parents and a couple of my TBM siblings. I am considered Satan's emissary in my family. Integrity can be expensive. Thoughts, anyone?

I hear you there, Don. I lost the love and comfort of my entire extended family and my only sister. I lost years of tithing and --frankly--some of my sanity.

Down the line, I lost one son to death and another to insanity, another to alcoholism (that one's still alive but hasn't spoken in ten years).

This list does not include stocks and property.

I try to look at what I gained. I believe one of the reasons I am so happy now, despite struggles with relationships, and not having love in my life, is because I enjoy a thousand little freedoms a day. The freedom from guilt, the ability to enjoy a good cup of coffee wearing whatever I want and look at a forest. Not having to meet a quota, fellowship the neighbor, visit strangers, answer to no one but god or nogod.

The sheer joy of the lifting of all that judgment--you don't realize the weight of it until it is gone, truly.

Most important-- there is a huge difference in your happiness when you live in the present. Not sacrificing today for some tomorrow --or some dead person's tomorrow-- just being able to own my life completely is sooooo delicious.

This may be akin to saying "I banged myself on the head with a hammer, which was painful but worth it because it felt so good when I stopped."

Still, after raising nine children and being in leadership, I am so private and so easy to please. A day to myself seems wonderful. And now I have every day to myself! I cook, I write, I post, I watch TV, life is good.

Anagrammy

Ana
I have never met you. I read your posts, and appreciate your wisdom. I recognize that you are who you are because of what you have had to endure. Your posts bring wisdom and comfort way beyond what you can imagine.
We may not be physically in your living room, but if you think you aren't loved, you are wrong.
I think there are so many here who love you. Many whom you have never heard a word from. It's still out there.
I love you, and thank you for sharing every thing you know and have learned.
Mia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 12:15AM by Mia.

My siblings are nuts anyway--especially one. AND she is the TBM. She has created more drama than you can begin to imagine in the 3 years since our parents died.

Luckily, my dad wasn't so terribly mormon and he put protections in place that I did get my inheritance.

This was supposed to be below--but I had planned on saying to Mia and anagrammy--you both have such wisdom (I read the post about anagrammy's daughter and all the good advice that was given). You are both amazing women and I love reading your posts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 09:23AM by cl2.

Wow, you put in words so eloquently what I am feeling. Thank you so much.

Add me to that list.Anagrammy you are my favorite poster. I can so relate to you and the pain you have gone through with some of your children. I also have 9 children and some of them won't speak to me. My oldest has severe Reactive Attachment Disorder and hasn't spoken to me in 3 years. Lives 20 min. away and keeps my grandchildren away. I've tried apologizing for any and all I may have done,but it does no good. 2 other children also don't speak to me. It's hard,but I can't change it so I let it be.
I just really admire you and so appreciate how positive and caring you always are. Thanks for all the wisdom you share!

Your love and kindness sent my way means a lot to me.

Truth is, there are some things which can't be undone. Some damage beyond repair and we fear the words, "it's just too late."

No matter how great the change we've made or how much we regret the mistakes--and I have my list, I'm sure you have yours-- a person chooses to see us for who we are now...or not.

I know that I did what I did thinking it was the right thing. And I'm sure my daughter is screwing up her kids exactly the same way--deviating from the societal norm as a way of asserting her authority and being different from her mother. Like I was trying to be my own person in contrast to my weird mother.

Like some big wheel that moves around and comes back to the same spot.

Thanks again for your support. People ask why I still come to Rfm. Well, this is a big reason. I have friends I haven't met, like loveskids, and mia, and others, who know EXACTLY what I'm going through. It's priceless.

XOXOX

Anagrammy

I once sat on a jury on a wrongful death suit, the judge asked us to determine the monetary loss to the parents of a lost son over a 30 year period.

We had no guidelines to go by

We awarded 800 thousand, too much? Not enough?

Your loss 800K+

Or the alternative, integrity…..priceless



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 12:08AM by Bal.

Was this figure adjusted to consider how much money you saved by not paying tithing?

Wow, cokedrinker, I think you solved my equation. I saved a ton on tithing, separated myself from idiot relatives, and saved my son from idiot culture! I'm way ahead in every way; thank you for pointing it out.

I always enjoy hearing your POV, Don. If I had a boyfriend, he'd be a lot like you.

:)
Ana

Ana, you have the brains and the charm of Madame Curie. Radioactive!

I simply couldn't be part of that outfit anymore, even if it meant living under a bridge. In fact, I wonder how much living in the Mormon church cost me. How could I have lived if I had not been part of it?

The Mormon church took away my peace of mind.

Please make that a bumper sticker.

Those of us who feel that way should apply the sticker liberally.

I have to say that if this matters to you, and it sounds like it does then you need to ask them why their love is conditional. You should also ask if that is a tenant of their faith - conditional love to those that would other wise have unconditional praise were they to meet a few things THEY felt were OK.

I'm not saying call them on it, I'm saying you should sincerely ask why you were left out of things involving love (not the material things) since you left the church. They need to know they hurt you for YOUR sake, not for theirs. Then you can start to heal.

just my 2 cents..

Integrity IS expensive.

"if that is the low level of value they placed on me (being a Mope DooBee), then the loss is theirs: everyone else places a much higher value on me, even if it is only as a human being."

All it cost me was my CULTURAL DISHONESTY, carefully instilled in me over the course of every Primary, Sunday School, YM/YW, YA, Priesthood, & Sacrament meeting I ever attended. That is a price I would gladly pay over and over again. The good news is that once you fully own up to it, you rarely have to keep paying any more installments.

good things cost money

It cost me family ties, ultimately. Fortunately I resolved to make my own family early.on. However, thanks to the dysfunction instilled in me by MORmONS it took me 10 more years to find my new family. I have an amazing spouse, and good friends. :)

Monetarily? That's hard to guess. Fortunately I only ever paid tithing on my very first real paycheck, and random money making opportunities as a child. All the rest of my paychecks have not been tithed to the church.

As I came up on the end of high school, my mother made a point of making sure I knew that she would not help with further education costs.
And in one sick conversation where she brought up fairy tales, happy endings, and prince charmings, she also told me that there would never be an inheritance for me. Her goal was to disillusion me, but I had never expected to receive anything, certainly not right out of high school while they were still fairly young and healthy.
Her goal was really to make me feel alone and devoid of help. Thanks mom, I had already assumed so, the whole conversation was rude and about her assumptions of my assumptions.

I had no designs on their money, already had my own job, and when the next conversation detailed the rent I would owe them on their 100% payed off house, I packed up and went and lived in my car.

Who's the money grubber, eh mom?

No, I needed my money for my own place to live. It was clear I was not welcome any more. After scrimping and pinching on providing as little as possible for me my whole life, she wanted to turn me into an asset while my dad had a $70,000/yr job, their house was willed to them and they owed nothing but property tax and operating expenses on it.



All the money they will hoard for other mormons is offset by my not paying tithing money. I never expected money from them, so I don't feel it as a "cost" anyways. :)

it cost me a $50000 + job, benefits, my retirement, and our house. Luckily for me, my wife and I left hand in hand together and we are still holding hands.

You can, fill out taxes and write it off, but you would still loose $ (itemized deductions, ie reason for tithing settlement).

My husband, and my brother a couple states away... that's it.

Oh, yeah, and The StalkerDog™ too!

It gets lonesome sometimes but we get off cheap at Christmas time!

I wish I could adopt you all! Wouldn't we be a fun big family!


Did anyone ever just speak up? Look one of these TBMs right in the eye and just quietly and matter-of-factly say: "What IS it about the LDS church that makes its people so MEAN?"

Hi Five Doxie!

I'll give a stab at an answer to that. I remember why I was so mean. My life was nothing but duty. A checklist. Sleep the only respite. My feelings didn't matter, nothing mattered but enduring to the end.

Why should other people be having fun? Life isn't about fun, it's about being anxiously engaged in the Lord's work.

And sure enough, fun was squashed completely out of the equation.

Anagrammy

No leisure... no fun... no time to really relax and, like Mole in Wind in the Willows, just BE.

That'll for sure make an ol' sour apple out of ya!

I firmly believe times of fun, leisure, laughter, and lack of pressure are totally necessary for one's sanity. It has a positive effect on one's immune system... that has been proven.

My adoption offer still stands!

"Cousin" Doxi. :)
This place feels like a drop in "family reunion" to me a lot of the time. We all have a similar enough background, even though each of us takes things a little differently and goes our own direction.

Like my 40 cousins, I don't like all of "you", but most of us understand each other, and some of "you" I'd like to see more often.

Sometimes random people show up, much like the big family gatherings of my past. A huge crowd occasionally draws the curious passerby.


Sounds like family.

benefits >> costs

Prior to our exit, I was the number 1 son-in-law. My FIL loved me however, the first two years out of the church he would not even speak to me on the phone. It is better now, but still I am down in the middle of the son-in-law pack now.

Don, someday I would like to meet you and have a drink. We have much in common although your situation with family and church was worse, I’m surprised you survived it all without self destructing completely.

For myself I knew what was coming and what the very real possibilities and consequences of resignation from the church. Integrity and honesty was far, far more valuable. I stopped caring what “others” thought about what I thought and I stuck to what I knew damn well was right.

I have paid dearly like I knew I would. We are not alone in the suffering and damage. All individuals that have had the courage to leave their cultish organizations go through hell. Just read the Ex-JW, EX-Scientology web sites. They have the same stories as we do here. I would do it again. I broke the chain of the LDS mind screw on part of my family. They and their children will benefit from my decision. It was worth it. Things are getting better every day. Still some tough things to go through but life looks very good ahead.

I have some things now I did not have before. Freedom of Mind. Freedom of Choice. My personal right to Informed Consent. And of course my underwear no longer has an “Agenda”.

Thanks for your thoughts, AmIDarkNow. I too would do it all over again, because it is right to turn one's back on evil and hurt.

... I calculate a windfall profit from denying and leaving the windbag prophets.

Think I'll go buy me some beer and celebrate!

Timothy

I am richer financially as well as quality of life, cultural experiences, travel, friendships--I could go on and on. Luckily my siblings all left the church so I still have good family relationships.

On the other hand, I have suffered some horrific losses and at present am going through another loss. I have to call it the lost dream of the happy marriage, the marvelous spouse, and my own self-delusions.

Today I was talking to a wise friend and she told me:

"It's hell when you fall off your own pedestal."

So true.