For the longest time, I was desperate to find some good in him. You know like, "maybe it was all a lie, but he was motivated by wanting to create a church that did good things," kind of reasoning. I am past that now, but I had been taught to honor and hero worship him for so long, that it was hard to admit he was such a d-bag. I guess it's a lot how when you favorite sports hero get's caught murdering people, or covering up a sex abuse case, it's kind of hard for some people to admit their "hero" was such a fraud.

My DH had talked me back from the unbelieving edge several times over the years. This time I read "In Sacred Loneliness" by Todd Compton and I knew JS was a slimeball. No good left in him for me.

Then I learned about how he treated the women who denied his propositions, and a good person doesn't do what he did. He could have denied the accusations (just be liar) but he didn't have to ruin their reputations also (be a liar AND a prick).

Maybe because I already had doubts and hated polygamy with a passion, seeing him as less than a hero was relatively easy.

I have studied his life, some of his families lives in several books, read his journals, and find him a fascinating individual. He had amazing qualities of charisma, and leadership and was a mesmerizing speaker. He had an uncanny ability to know people and what they would accept and believe. These abilities were developed over time. He was a religious man of his times - early 1800's New York in particular . He was amazingly clever, and convincing even able to produce "visions" in other men using metaphysical, supernatural powers and beliefs.

Was he flawed? Certainly. Was he an incredible religious leader of a unique religion, for his time? Yes, I believe he was. The current success of the LDS Church is a testament to his concrete beginnings.

Did he push the limit of what his religion demanded? Of course he did. He was able to incorporate religion into a World View that superseded the laws of the land and get people to believe every bit of it.

Did he plagiarized and borrow from everything known to him in his time, including a Hebrew teacher? You bet he did!

Did he convince people he could translate ancient records that were never produced in real life? Oh yes! That was one of his most amazing feats as several million people around the world are still believing in the Book of Mormon.

Did he convince women to marry him as "spiritual" wives? And from the record, as wives in every sense? Yes! And, he got away with it. Did he have some kind of sex appeal? Was he so amazing that women wanted to be married to the prophet? I think that happened at least some of the time.

I personally had been so well taught that he was a prophet and we were not to speak against them, that my lips had a strange sensation when I talked about him in a negative way. (That left me in a hurry! )

I'm still fascinated by what he accomplished and what Brigham Young was able to continue from his beginnings with the Book of Mormon, polygamy, Doctrine and Covenants, etc.

For the REAL story though, have some fun reading!
I suggest scanning the JOD (27 volumes) Joseph Smith's Journals, Readings in Church History, (3 volumes) The Comprehensive Histoy of the LDS Church (7 volumes), No Man Knows My History, and a couple dozen more! That is a very different history than the church presents today from the so called first vision (up to seven or more accounts actually), to the Kinderhook Plates, and a bunch more stories more members never heard of.

No matter how positive or negative the comments and opinions of Joseph Smith Jr, the fact remains that he started a church that is alive and works for millions of people to day.

[Disclaimer: I have no belief in the teachings/doctrine of the LDS Church or Joseph Smith Jr. This is my opinion only.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2012 07:00PM by SusieQ#1.

Yep, the journal of discourses pretty much did me in on thinking JS was anything but either a hug liar or an insane person.
I read one where he was jabbering about Adam being god, and how when he (JS) died, he would ascend to Adam's position, thus making him god. I was like "WTF?"
Then, after a month or so of reading through them, they magically disappeared from the church library, all sent to SLC. No reason given.

Not once I learned the truth about him. I was furious.

I honestly didn't feel it was hard to be critical- I just left tscc last month and when I found out the extent of the betrayal and how full of it JS really was, it made me ticked off to no small degree and I felt very duped and stupid. The more I hear about JS the more I wonder how anyone could believe the church is for real.

As I read more about him I decided he was essentially an opportunist.

Ya know, I never really cared about JS from the get-go....I was never interested in reading the BofM...so I never have in my 63 years, and my TBM parents were wise respectful of us and did not force anything on me or my brother. What I have learned about JS on this forum is just bizarre....and the fact so many TBM's are in denial of the facts...

I'm convinced that Joseph Smith had to have some sort of diagnosable mental illness. I've come up with narcissist or psychopath. Anyone else have any guesses.

Mayo clinic:
Narcissistic personality disorder
Believing that you're better than others

Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings

Wikipedia:
Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for, or violation of, the rights of others. It is defined in different ways, but can involve a lack of empathy or remorse, false emotions, selfishness, grandiosity or deceptiveness; it can also involve impulsiveness, irritability, aggression, or inability to perceive danger and protect one's self.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

What I found shocking was I hadn't been to church in I don't know how many years, had decided some time before my nonmo boyfriend from the past happened back into my life that I no longer believed. We only IMd and talked on the phone for the first several months and he just COULD NOT believe that I no longer believed in mormonism as I was very TBM when he knew me 28 years before that.

So--late one Friday night he dropped the name JS on me and it was like an insult to my brain. I hadn't thought of that name in YEARS. I didn't have all the into then I do now either, but just him mentioning the name was confirmation that I knew it was all bull.

BUT 6 months later when my exmo therapist told me about RfM and I saw the lack of respect for the current leaders, I was taken aback--but it got me thinking. Why did the leaders deserve respect???? That really was a turning point for me when I let go of that part of the programming.

I had no trouble. If the church is untrue--and that was obvious--Smith was a crook and a fraud. I hated him immediately.

A lie is still a lie no matter what "good" may come from it. Most Mormons are still decent even though they believe a largely bogus religion. On the other hand, you can still be decent person without living the lie.

Definitely narcissistic. But there is some indication that the guy could also be downright dangerous (think Danites), so psychopathy could be in that diagnosis as well. Delusions of grandeur, definitely. He thought he could get away with anything and got quite angry if caught in a deceit and people weren't buying his excuse, from what I've read.

I hated Brigham Young, even when I was mormon. I always thought he was weird. I always would say BYU is named after a polygamist. Then I found out the truth about Joseph Smith and now I hate them the same.

I'm with cl2, I haven't been active in so long, I can't really remember details, but my DH mentioned something about getting our names removed from the church records (I found the info here) and started reading about the church a few weeks ago. I've carried the guilt of not being active, although I read something by Richard Packham a while back about JS and decided he was delusional, I just never realized what a creep he was until recently. You'd think after all these years of being 'inactive' I wouldn't be so interested but it's like seeing a train wreck and not being able to turn your eyes away. Of course I live in the heart of Utah in a very small community, so I can't get a way from it, but I don't want my kids growing up with the mormon guilt of not being good enough. I feel an attachment of some kind and putting the church image and the reality of JS together is really difficult.

I didn't know what to think of Joseph Smith at first, but it didn't take long for me to realize that he was a criminal and a sexual predator. The story of Helen Mar Kimball convinced me that I could not allow my children to be taught that this man was anything more than an opportunistic monster.

So no, I didn't find it difficult to speak out against him once I knew what he was.