It seems that in the last few years just about everyone and their brother has been speaking out against bullying.

And my understanding is that some schools are going overboard in punishing bullies.

All of that seems nice and dandy, however, looking back in my life I've realized that the adversity that I've faced while being bullied as a teenager urged me to get in shape and join the wrestling team. And thanks to that, I stood my ground by kicking ass and taking names.

My concern is that if I would be growing up in today's day and age where bullying is extremely penalized, I think that perhaps I never would have had the chance to grow some balls and develop a thick skin that has served me well into my adulthood.

Now, I'm sure some of you will point out some rare cases on how bullying has led some minors into committing suicide. But I'm starting to think that those are rare cases and perhaps there was more stuff going beneath the surface before the bullying began.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's plenty of bullying and harassment that takes place at work, social events, and even at home with an abusive spouse. So why shelter kids from what's coming up down the road?

Well, what's your take on this issue?

Sounds like you're thinking: "Just suck it up. I did!"

I got picked on, put down, beat up, and shoved around as a child and as a young teenager in school... and then I'd go home and get more of the same from my mom and my brother.

To this day I look at myself in the mirror and see ugly, stupid, useless, and hopeless. So I say bravo to stopping bullying.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe bullies should have the chance to learn their behavior is not appropriate? If not checked, they grow up to be adult bullies. The adult bullies I have seen continue business as usual until someone with more authority tells them that what they are doing is wrong. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to stand up to the bully to get them to change their behavior. Why should it be the victim's job to do this? Adults in authority have responsibility over these situations when they have children in their care.

As far as children committing suicide over bullying. I don't think you should blame the victim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2012 11:58PM by atheist&happy:-).

Interesting points you made.

My question to your statement is: Aren't there already rules in place to punish the bully? Such as: If someone gets beat up then as you suggested the perpetrator should be reported. If someone has their lunch money stolen, once again, have the incident be reported.

Maybe ask one of the teachers or parents on the board who know more about current school policies.

...Teens that were rejected by their parents because they were gay. Teens that have faced the worst of bullying, even from the people that are supposed to protect them. Telling these kids to "get in shape" or "join a wrestling team" is not at all a solution, it's an INSULT. It is BLAMING THE VICTIM, a form of abuse and bullying in and of it's self.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 12:20AM by MJ.

It's so much more sneaky and hurtful than that. Why don't you look it up and find out?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 12:02AM by serena.

Sorry, but bulling goes way beyond stealing and hitting. There is also intimidation, emotional abuse, etc. much of which does not have penalties that prevent such abbuse.

and not a good effect either. No one should have to deal with that. There were days I didn't want to have to go back. I wanted to run away, but didn't know where to go. It hurt a lot, made me feel ugly, stupid, unloved and unlovable. It was horrible, and sometimes frightening.

It did not make me a better, stronger person. I still have minor PTSD episodes sometimes when something triggers a memory I've tried to forget.

Same here. I get triggers too. For instance, I had to move my desk in my office when they had it with my back to the door. I can't stand having my back to anything where someone could come up behind me.

No one understood why I wanted it moved. "The bosses and the guys" refused to move it for me, saying it was fine where it was. I stayed late after work and did it all myself. My back hurt for a couple weeks but I had it the way I needed it.

I got my share at school, church and home. My father was the primary bully in my life, and I tended to freeze up with fear when he beat me. So bullies outside of my home had a field day with my flinching and cowering. There is no place for God in such a life, I can tell you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 12:52AM by robertb.

Every child is going to go through periods of peer rejection, that is normal and healthy. What is not normal and healthy is bullying. There is a difference between getting teased once and a while by your mates for goofing something up, as opposed to going through a situation where nearly every one of your interactions, for months if not years, at a time is the subject of scorn and ridicule, because none of your classmates like you.

I was a victim of bullying. I remember being chased down the hallways of my school, by older boys, who were spitting in my hair, as they chased me, simply because they thought the panic it caused me was hilarious. I remember eating lunch alone for three years straight.

Part of this was because I was naturally socially awkward. On top of that, I had a speech impediment, and was a Mormon, in a near all baptist school.

Nearly every conversation I had with peers, involved them teasing me, while I struggled to respond, which amused them a great deal. I withdrew into a world of books and art, and even had violent fantasies about getting revenge.

It wasn't until I was in High School that I made any real friends, which was only possible because I was able to enroll in classes and clubs that were dominated by kids going through things similar to my own. Even then, I could never really connect, because none of the other socially awkward kids were Mormon, and I was too brainwashed to know how to go through a conversation without mentioning the stupid church.

Not buying The idea that the bullying of kids is the same as with adults.

Do tell me, EXACTLY, how many teens need to be bullied to the point of suicide before it bullying becomes unacceptable to you??? Is it OK for ONE person to be bullied to the point of suicide? 10? 100? 1,000? Just how many would it take for you to say "enough"? How about we get it so you can tell the parents of teens that were bullied to the point of suicide that: "Because bullying to the point of suicide is so rare, bullying really isn't an issue that needs to be addressed, better not not shield the child, even though it lead to the suicide of your son". Are you willing to say that to parents of teens bullied into suicide?

And seriously, how myopic to think that the only harm done is suicide. And doubly myopic to think that because YOU were able to "get in shape" and "join a wrestling" teem means that someone else will be able to. It is even more myopic to think that because you were bullied that the bullying you experienced was as bad or persistent as the bullying of others. Your whole post was incredibly self centered, which makes me think there is something else going on, something driving a lack of compassion, some reason to DEFEND bullying!

Sorry, I think that it more likely that you want to not be penalized for your bullying. I can think of no other reason someone would defend bullying the way you have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 12:14AM by MJ.

I was bullied all through school, & into adulthood. I've even been bullied right in the busy street by people yelling from their cars. Same type of bullying by the same kinds of bullies. But that's just me & my experience.

Not in my book.

That fact that you seem to think that being yelled at by someone passing in a car is comperable to the type of bulling I am talking about makes it clear to me that you likely have not been bullied in the way I am talking about.

I'm talking about the type of bullying that gets teens bullied out of their own homes.

Edited for privacy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 01:17AM by Tristan-Powerslave.

Edited for privacy

Yes, this abuse went on, & still goes on, but I'm not going to talk about it here anymore. I shouldn't have talked about it here at all.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 01:20AM by Tristan-Powerslave.

It appears to me you were really offering a reply to the original post rather than the one you replied to. Always, always make sure you're clicking the reply button on the post you wish to respond to. That way you don't accidentally kick a hornet's nest.

I'm sorry you suffered so much abuse, both as a child and as an adult. Obviously bullies can be adults as well, with a need to assert dominance and belittle others. I wish our society encouraged more civil, rational dialog. I wish adult bullies would just grow up.

I worked with a man who thrived on making those around him miserable. He was an extremely hard worker, and I have no doubt he'd rather work 70hrs a week and do it all himself. He'd been there almost since the beginning of the company and was #2 behind the owner. But he delighted in making good employees so miserable they either quit or began calling in just to avoid him - which thrilled him because he could fire them with "just cause".

Absolutely nothing phased him, and nothing was off-limits to him - he was almost sociopathic. I'm an animal lover, I have more animals than the legal limit because I can't say no when I find one in distress. I remember one day he was surprised, because I didn't laugh at his story of his childhood when he and his friends supposedly buried cats in the dirt so that only their head was exposed, then ran over them with lawnmowers. That happened probably three years ago, and I still find it disturbing. Yeah, I know I'm overreacting but I've always been way too sensitive.

The only reason I remained employed there was because the owner seemed to take me under his wing, and this other employee and I eventually developed a stalemate and begrudging respect. He and I both got laid off last year and he eventually found other work, but came in every once in awhile to help out.

After several months, he came in for about three days straight - and I just about had a nervous breakdown. I had forgotten just how much of an emotional vampire he was.

I've experienced some abuse, though not nearly what others have gone through as I've learned on here. I hated my life in gradeschool and I try to block the memory out of my mind. I've spent more time contemplating suicide than most people spend planning out their education and careers. I can't even imagine what others must have gone through, and still somehow lived to tell about it. My point is people can be abused young or old, school, work or home. People are cruel.

"The more people I meet, the more I like my dog."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 09:42AM by apatheist.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 12:35AM by MJ.

When I'm being told the same exact abusive language, to me it is!!!

I'm talking about more than just abusive language. I'm talking about the type of bullying that gets kids bullied out of their own homes, that leaves them believing no place is safe. Sorry, you are not talking about the same thing I am.

Yeah, I did, but I guess I was comparing bullying in school to bullying as an adult. Yes, I was even hit at school by other students, & had food & objects thrown at me.

Sorry, but bullying is not the same as the challenges people face in life. Bullying damages teens, and I will fight it and support anti-bullying programs as long as I live.

I applaud the efforts to put a stop to bullying. Nobody should have to grow up like I did, and no one should feel like I do as an adult.

I posted on the list about it. She started having trouble sleeping. She started trying to avoid school. She was unhappy and felt bad. We worked with her to deal with the bullying. That helped for a while and then the bullies escalated. We very firmly took it to her teachers and principal and they dealt decisively with it and it stopped. Our daughter handles most social situations well, but this one needed intervention because it was starting to harm her. I think you are somewhat cavalier about this issue, and while I am glad you found a way to handle the bullying you experienced, your attitude also pisses me off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 12:35AM by robertb.

I worked at a school where teens were being regularly bullied and it was tearing them down. The school administration did very little about it until, with some encouragement, the parents documented the incidents and then threatened the school with legal action. Schools are required by law to deal with bullying but too many of them don't. The deal is this: Kids have to be at school. If someone is there who bullies them they just have to take it unless someone puts a stop to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 12:45AM by robertb.

being bullied to becoming a bully? All the talk here paints them as two antithetical types, but on the other hand folklore has it that bullies themselves suffered bullying and internalized and reproduce it. (Similar to abused becoming abusers.)

I'm thinking that education against bullying (I don't want to say "anti-bullying," because that sometimes seems to smack of reverse-bullying itself--socially approved hating the hater) could not only deter present bullying but also nip in the bud the formation of future bullies.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2011/how-a-bully-is-made/

One thing worth noting is bullying is no longer attributed to "low self-esteem.

My son attempted suicide at the age of 13 because of bullying. I say zero tolerance for bullying.

Do you think that child abuse should exist so kids can overcome that, too? What is the difference to you? There isn't much of one, it is kids being abused by other kids, with the rest of the kids (and sometimes teachers) watching and not doing anything about it. That means it is abuse combined with the message that it is acceptable for people to treat each other abusively, it can devestate children. Being exposed to abusive behavior only causes damage, and it isn't cool to allow abuse on the off chance that someone will completely overcome it later. Chances are that they won't, the scars of bullying don't go away easily, if at all. Kids kill themselves over bullying all the time. What does that tell you about how important it is to combate bullying?

The only way bullying can be seen as a good thing is if those dead kids weren't good enough to overcome being bullied, and I simply do not think that is true. Most just saw no other options available to them. Most could not get any help from adults or maybe, like you, they said it was "good" for them to be tormented every day.

If there was anything redeeming about experiencing bullying there would be evidence of it. Psychological studies show that there is not anything positive for kids who are bullied.

One is to protect victims of bullying -- and that's an excellent goal.

The other is to teach bullies that their behavior is unacceptable in our society. And that is also an excellent goal.

Bullying is deeply traumatizing and can cause lasting scars, particularly on sensitive and introverted people. It's great that the bullying you faced motivated you and helped you to make yourself stronger -- but other kids don't. I have strong social anxiety issues because of bullying at school and at home. Bullying didn't make me stronger at all. Instead it damaged something in me that will likely never heal.

I'm all in favor of building a society where bullying is unacceptable regardless of the age of the bully and victim. We've got a ways to go in this issue but the first steps have been taken at least.

We've come quite a long way from the 1960s, when I was in grade school and we used to get in trouble for tattling.

Church Enemy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems that in the last few years just about
> everyone and their brother has been speaking out
> against bullying.
>
> And my understanding is that some schools are
> going overboard in punishing bullies.
>
> All of that seems nice and dandy, however, looking
> back in my life I've realized that the adversity
> that I've faced while being bullied as a teenager
> urged me to get in shape and join the wrestling
> team. And thanks to that, I stood my ground by
> kicking ass and taking names.
>
> My concern is that if I would be growing up in
> today's day and age where bullying is extremely
> penalized, I think that perhaps I never would have
> had the chance to grow some balls and develop a
> thick skin that has served me well into my
> adulthood.
>
> Now, I'm sure some of you will point out some rare
> cases on how bullying has led some minors into
> committing suicide. But I'm starting to think that
> those are rare cases and perhaps there was more
> stuff going beneath the surface before the
> bullying began.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's plenty of
> bullying and harassment that takes place at work,
> social events, and even at home with an abusive
> spouse. So why shelter kids from what's coming up
> down the road?
>
> Well, what's your take on this issue?

In the corporate world there are not a lot of solutions other than anti-bullying campaigns. While your approach of getting in shape and kicking ass works in high school, it leads to arrests and prison time for assault and battery as an adult. Not very conducive to career advancement.

If society feels that we are asking too much by expecting civility and using civil means (anti-bullying) to get there, then we are in sad shape.

I would also like to add a comment about those in the work place who run anti- anti-bullying campaigns. Generally those around you trying to end such campaigns are the bullies themselves. They are afraid that the secret to their success is going to be eliminated. They do not want a level playing field or civility.

bullshit.

Bullies need to be taught to not push around or hurt other people. There are ways to "toughen" up kids through positive reinforcement and I think it would build a more healthy self-esteem than constantly being torn down. I hear a and read plenty of adult bullies saying that this is the "pussification" of our children to not allow them to be bullied. No and fuck that!
Only a bully would use a misogynistic term to defend bullying.

I, too, was bullied; both as a child and as an adult. One of the worst instances was the school bully following me home, calling me names, throwing rocks and iceballs at me, and slipping a chunk of ice into my backpack. I was in hysterics by the time I got home. Ironically, this bully is now a cop in my small hometown. A counter-culture saying is "Bullies become cops because cops can get away with bullying legally." That was just the tip of the iceberg what I had to deal with at school.Then I got to deal with it at home and at church as well.
Just as I thought I was done dealing with it as a kid, I ended up at a job stuck with a bunch of misogynistic bullies. I was more or less, forced to quit. I found out later on my supervisor allowed and encouraged the abuse to get rid of me and other people her couldn't manipulate. I found out that asshole supervisor was fired for sleeping on the job and getting caught for the third time last year. Also his wife divorced him and he lost his house because he's such a jerk to people.

It's not ok to degrade, torture, abuse, or manipulate other people. I totally agree with Mark Brasher here. Bullies defend their behaviour so they can get away with it.

Being someone who was bullied on a daily basis at school, while the adults did nothing, including my parents, I welcome trying to teach kids to be good to one another, rather than bully one other.

The bullying that I endured has affected my entire life. It turned me timid and made sure that I never had a self-esteem to speak of. I felt like a nothing.

At 53, I'm still fighting those effects. I'm just now finally becoming comfortable in my own skin.

I was never able to allow myself to trust and be vulnerable enough to become involved in a romantic relationship. I can't get back that part of my life. I can't go back and do it again and simply tell those bullies to go flock off, like I now wish I had.

When school shootings happen due to bullying, the sad thing is that I understand them. It makes me really sad, because the shooters allowed the bullies to win. It makes me very sad, but I understand it.

To me, it's ridiculous to claim that bullying doesn't result in low self-esteem. Tell that to someone like me who was popular and felt good about herself before the bullying started, and who went into a shell and felt worthless after being bullied on a daily basis and has fought her entire life to counteract that.

As painful as the experience of being bullied, being held down on the ground while taunting me with a name that said I wasn't like them as they put yellow jackets down my dress . That pain was exacerbated once I escaped and ran home for I got no support. The exact words still emblazzed in my head all these years later, "Get your dress back on and get back to school."

And to the poster who suggested that abusers grow up to be abusers....yes some do and some don't.

Therapy for PTSD best gift I gave myself.

I chose not be an abuser. I adopted the United Nations song "Let It Begin With Me" and I chose that the cycle of abuse would STOP with me.

And the best thing that came out of that for me was hearing our grown daughter say, "When I think back on my childhood I have such happy memories. I was a happy 'kid' . My friends envied me, they wanted my parents."

Was she disciplined? - Yes
Was she punished? - never.

And add insult to injury TSCC judged me the convert for my pre-existence behaviour for the very name those bullies abused me with.

The bullies when I was kid used yellow-jackets
The TSCC used doctrine.

Enough said.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 10:48AM by Helen.

I agree completely, Helen. I'm the same. Rather than become an abuser myself, instead it made me want to treat people with kindness and to help them feel good about themselves, to build up their self-esteem.

But I understand completely if an abused child grows up to be an abuser. I just find it to be very sad.

Every child reacts differently to bullying.

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But I understand completely if an abused child
> grows up to be an abuser. I just find it to be
> very sad.

It is tragic.

> Every child reacts differently to bullying.

Indeed.

I think what helped me was that along the way there were a couple of people in my life that were positive and treated me well. And when those couple of people were not available or around I had my books. Books taught me that one day I could and would get away from the abuse.

I'm in a good spot today and I enjoy being in the present moment.

Maybe someone as an adult could get bullied on the street or in a bar, but in most places of business, harassment is not tolerated. The kind of bullying that goes on in classrooms and hallways at school will get the bully fired at just about any company. Better to teach the kids to leave their animal pecking order behind them now if we expect them to stay employed and part of civilized society.