Ok so here is the deal. I've been trying to resign from the Church. I've sent in my resignation letter & gotten the standard form back from SLC stating it was an ecclesiastical matter...you know the rest.

So I waited for 30 days. Didn't hear anything from Bishop, or SP. So for the last month and a half I've also been emailing them telling them to get on with it and process my resignation. A couple of weeks ago the Bishop said he would do it but then today when I sent in an email and asked what was up he says:

Could you and I meet Sunday afternoon to discuss process? Which means he hasn't done anything yet.

To which I replied:

This doesn't need to be dragged out. Why do we need to meet? I understand the process. It's been over 30 days since I sent in my resignation letter & I haven't changed my mind. I stated very clearly and plainly that I understand what I'm asking. The rest is up to you and the SP? You just need to sign off on it and forward onto SP to do the same….right? If you want to meet with me I want to know why first. If it has anything to do with changing my mind, talking me out of it, or telling me why I'm wrong then I'll pass. I've made my decision and know what I want. I do not want anything to do with the church ever again. My days of being taken advantage of and lied to are over. Please process this so I can move on.


What is the deal, is he just messing with me? Why is it so hard to get out!?!? GD I am really frustrated!

There is a list of things that the bishop has to go over with you. You can try to send him an email with those items.

- I am firm and resolute in my decision and cannot be persuaded otherwise.
- I understand that all of my temple and membership blessings are lost.
- I understand that I must wait at least one year before being re-baptized and that would include taking the discussions, repenting of any sins, and pass a worthiness interview.
- Please waive my 30 day waiting period.
- I do not wish to discuss my reasons for leaving other than to state I do not believe it. I request that you request my privacy and the 11th article of faith. I am firm and resolute in my beliefs and have no desire to discuss them with you.
_ I understand the process. You forward this request to the stake president. You write me a personal letter. The stake sends the information to Salt Lake. Salt Lake processes the request and removes my membership. I also understand that I am legally (you know that law of the land thing that you respect) no longer a member upon my submission of my notification of resignation which you have already received. I am already not a member - I no longer need to jump through your hoops. I have no desire to meet with you and you just need to move forward with the request. If you need to disclose anything else to me, email will be sufficient.

It's possible the bishop will let you off the hook with that email. If not and he requires the meeting insist beforehand that you have no desire to discuss your beliefs and that the meeting should be limited to the process only. If he tries to ask why, simply say you don't believe it and request that he respect your privacy and the 11th article of faith. My meeting with my bishop literally took 5 minutes - there is no reason it needs to take more than than - and I went straight from the gym in shorts and sweaty.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2012 01:58PM by ronas.

ronas Wrote:
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> There is a list of things that the bishop has to
> go over with you.

I don't think so. Other than the form letter from the bishop, I had no contact from the locals. First Dodge letter dated the date of my e-mail resignation, bishop letter about two weeks after that, final Dodge letter six weeks after that.

I guess local contact must depend on how busy/controlling the individual bishop is.

The church policy includes these things. As with all things Mormon local leaders vary widely as to how they implement the policy.

Ronas, church policy is meaningless in these cases. The law that governs this "process" is secular, and not subject to church "policy and procedure". This person is out, TSCC has nothing to say about it, that's it.

Outlander, you do not have to respond in any way to the creeps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2012 04:08PM by hello.

I'm guessing you missed this from my post?
"I also understand that I am legally (you know that law of the land thing that you respect) no longer a member upon my submission of my notification of resignation which you have already received. I am already not a member - I no longer need to jump through your hoops."

You edited your post, but don't confuse my often stating the TBM apologetic stance to point out how absurd it is with my agreeing with said stance.

Fair enuff ronas, I will endeavor to do that.

But your advice to OP was still misplaced.

My advice was simply how to write an email that gives you the best chance of getting the bishop to push the paperwork through quickly without having to actually meet with the bishop.

You are already out. The rest is just mormon church mental masturbation.
You do not need to meet with anyone.

Instead, tell him you've already resigned and won't be meeting with him.

theoutlander Wrote:
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> I've sent in my
> resignation letter




That's IT! You're done. End of story.Absolutely NOTHING more you need to do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2012 02:04PM by Tupperwhere.

Here is a thought. Look at the amount of time and b/s people have to through to accomplish this task of name removal. What if? And I mean, What if? A class action lawsuit was filed on behalf of/ and buy the people being delayed in their attempt to resolve this name removal. Seriously - time lost is time lost and that time is worth money. A lot of money. What about a class action suit to force the boys at corporate to either pay up or get the work done. Now I can see the boys at corporate saying "We can outlast these folks - we have the money." And If you follow the church in the local papers here you see their pattern. They try and destroy the opposition with tying them up in court until they - the opposition is broke. But I think, judging from the last general conference and the general atmosphere here in the "Morridor" that the church can't afford another P.R. debacle. Besides now that the Mall is open they can start actually doing other things with their time. Like removing names.

You have done EVERYTHING you need to do and you are legally resigned now. You were as soon as SLC got your paperwork the first time. Once again the locals are not following their own CHI. Email or call COB and tell them their locals are not following their own policy and you want this crap stopped NOW. The only further contact you want is the final letter saying your paperwork is finished and their records have been changed to reflect your new status. PERIOD. You don't owe ANYONE ANYTHING further.

That's it in a nutshell.

You might want to copy all this and get in touch with membership records again about the delay.
That and threatening an attorney is a nice touch.

Refuse all meetings, you are already out, they're just dicking around with their own internal process.
You'll get the final letter quite soon. I would go as far as to guarantee it this year. :)

Yes, you are legally done. If you want to expedite them doing the clerical work to remove your name, my recommended approach will help it happen more quickly in most cases. I had my name removal confirmation letter in under 3 weeks of my initial resignation letter by "playing it their way". If you don't care about how long it takes and just want to wait until they eventually process your paperwork by default that works too - especially if you don't want to have to additional contact.

I see the generally recommended approach on this board of sending the resignation to the church headquarters instead of meeting with the bishop causing a lot of unnecessary frustration in waiting for weeks or months to get it over with. If for some reason you are terrified of your bishop fine; but if it doesn't intimidate you to sit down with him for a few minutes it does expedite the process.

Was your reply directed to me?

"Yes, you are legally done...". I am not the OP. Maybe you meant to reply to Susan. I was agreeing with Susan, but your entire post was directed at the OP, yet attached under my post.

I was replying in response to Susan's post - sorry I should have put it directly under hers instead of under yours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2012 05:28PM by ronas.

One of the problems with LDSInc is every little ward/branch is it's own kingdom. The locals in the next town may have a whole other set of hoops they want to TRY to make people jump through. 100s if not 1000s have had no problem getting their final paperwork done in a month with ZERO local contact. Your LOCALS did not follow what they are told to do in the CHI. The problem is always with the locals, they get hung up on the idea that they have some say in the process. At that point, they are working for you and are nothing more than paper pushers. And when paper pushers don't do their job, you contact their manager/COB. A call or email to COB does the trick in days 95% of the time.

Well said on the mini-kingdom thing.

How do you know what the CHI states? If the local leaders aren't supposed to do anything why does the church send the request back to the local leaders?

All I know 100% is the process my bishop was instructed to follow which is consistent with my comments. It is possible that this originated at the stake level but since it correlates exactly with this as stated on Richard Packham's website I would guess that it is more broad than that (I recognize that this would probably not be the most current handbook):

[Quote]
However, the steps are known, and are not difficult. They are contained in Chapter 15 of the Church Handbook, on pages 148-149, and the following is a summary of them (direct quotes are not used, so as not to invite a lawsuit from the church):

SUMMARY OF PROVISIONS FROM HANDBOOK, CHAPTER 15

The member, if adult, must write a letter to the bishop, requesting the name removal. The letter should not appear to be a form letter.

The bishop is then required to make sure that the member understands the consequences: cancellation of baptism, priesthood authority, temple blessings, and that, if the member should ever wish to return to membership, a thorough interview and a rebaptism would be required.

If the bishop is convinced that the member knows the consequences and is firm in the request, the bishop completes an administrative form and sends it to the stake president with the member's letter and membership record.

The stake presidency reviews the matter, and, if they concur (presumably that the member is sincere), they request the bishop to write a letter to the member, stating that the member's name is being removed and repeating the consequences. The letter must inform the member that the request may be rescinded if the member notifies the stake president within thirty days. That is, the stake president will hold the request, without forwarding it to Salt Lake City, for thirty days. If the member does not rescind the request, the stake president forwards the request to the church records department in Salt Lake City, where the name is removed from the membership records. (As of the 2006 revision of the CHI, the stake president should not wait the thirty days if the member requests immediate action.)

A minor over the age of eight must follow the same steps, and must also have the request countersigned by the parent or guardian having legal custody of the minor.

Only one letter is required for members of the same family.

A threat of legal action by a member requesting name removal is to be forwarded to the church legal department.

The fact that there is evidence for possible disciplinary action against a member is no longer a justification for delaying a name removal.

Once the person is no longer a member, the bishop may inform those local church leaders who may need to know that the person is no longer a member. The bishop may not use the term "excommunication" and must state that the person voluntarily requested the action.
[End Quote]
http://packham.n4m.org/leaving.htm

I am letting you know why I believe what I believe about the process. I don't have strong first hand evidence - e.g. I haven't read the current CHI. Educate me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2012 05:52PM by ronas.

He sent me another email saying I had it wrong and we have to meet. Sounds like if we don't he won't move forward. I guess I'm going to tell him if he wants to talk to me he can come over here I'm not meeting him at the church in his office. Thanks for your support everyone. Gotta love Blackmail. What a pain this is!

I would call the COB as Susan I/S suggested. Don't waste your time dealing with this bozo bishop who either doesn't know or doesn't care about the church policy on this.

You have better things to do with your life :-)

theoutlander Wrote:
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> He sent me another email saying I had it wrong and
> we have to meet. Sounds like if we don't he won't
> move forward.

He doesn't have any moving forward to do. You are no longer a member of the cult he represents. Were I you, I would ignore him; forward his email to SLC with a comment to the effect that the bishop deliberately is ignoring your "no contact" instruction and demand that your final letter be sent immediately.

Or, just ignore him completely and let him spin his wheels. SLC will finish the paperwork without his input.

Controlling jerk.

You don't have to meet with the bishop, and you don't need to worry whether or not he proceeds with your resignation. If he does nothing, contact the Membership Records office at the COB sixty days after they initially received your letter. The MR office will then process your request if the bishop refuses to do so.

Years ago the old handbook said bishops had to meet. That was an illegal assumption is no longer done unless both parties are interested. I say don't do it.

Make it real simple.

Hey bish - what number should I have my attorney call?

You'll have your letter before you can say rock in a hat.

Tell the BP do the paperwork or I call the newspaper and tell they what type of church Mitt is part of. Worked for me after 14 months of the BP holding on to the paperwork (this worked for me last time he ran)

Did something similar and it got results. Mittens running for president is an added bonus.

Tell them to get your name off the records NOW or you will resort to legal action. There is no reason for them to see you, talk to you or even email you. Call Greg Dodge at member records and have him call your bishop. Sometimes ya just gotta get nasty.

1) Stop going to church
2) Tell yourself "I resign"
3) If church people bug you, tell them to buzz off.

Resignation is an administrative game the church wants you to go through to demonstrate that they are still in charge.

The only power the church has is what you give them. You do not need their permission to leave. Just stop going. Whether you are on their rolls or not is their business, not yours.

A piece of paper those idiots will hand to you will make you free? I'll tell you this; they don't care about you and once you get that piece of paper it will start collecting dust. It doesn't mean Jack! How do you know they are throwing you from membership list? I'd bet a thousand dollars for their five hundred, they don't.
Don't empower them by getting vexed. This thing you go through has absolutely no importance to Church, why it should bug you?
You have always been part of this ant colony, don't flatter yourself thinking you are somebody important to the Church.
Get on with your life as Church never has been part of it!