Can anyone link me to a transcript?

Heard it. Shocked by it! Amazed at the number of factual errors.

He began by describing the increase in children born out of wedlock, and declining family values then jumped to the increase in inequality and said that inequality is linked to declining family values. I posted a question on Twitter pointing out the lack of empirical evidence tying family/religious values to inequality with the obvious example of Europe.

He went on to state the Mormons are wealthier and better educated than non-Mormons (even though Pew Research denies that claim) and that even adjusting for activity rates and belief Mormons donate more than others (even though Pew and WSJ have stated that all differences in philanthropy by religion are accounted for in activity rates and belief).

I don't think the text transcript is available yet. The audio link is available from: http://www.lds.org/general-conference/sessions/2012/04?lang=eng

This was by far the most popular talk of the Sunday Afternoon session on my FB and Twitter feeds, but also the most verifyably dishonest. I can't wait to see the text version so I can see the sources he used for his claims and point out how they don't support his claims.

How can Mormons be better educated than non-LDS? Utah has the lowest rate of women graduating from college as any state in the nation. They are dead last, in fact. If there are twice as many women in the church as men and they have one of the lowest college graduation rates (figuring in the fact not all Mormons are from Utah yet also figuring that if it's a Mormon trend, the Mormon women graduation rate might be lower in all other in all other states as well) how could they possibly be better educated?

As far as donating more time and money to charities, extortion and donation are two very different things.

Women don't count, therefore they probably aren't counting the women.

They're not. Mormons are on par with average salaries nearly on the dot according to Pew Research. It's pretty much a flat out lie.

Of course the economy has nothing to do with inequality at all; it's how righteous you are. Economy also has nothing to do with age when first child is born, which is of course not related to family situation, cohabitating vs getting married. It's all how righteous you are, there are no other scientifically proven correlations...

That is meant to be sarcastic btw. There are many proven reasons for a change in the family and inequality that have nothing to do with righteousness in the LDS church--the economy/financial situation of the family being one of the biggest. Age when first child is born also affects a family's economic situation.

Gee, that has got to make the TBM who is poor and really struggling with finances feel really great?

If this was the case shouldn't the 15 and 70 be loaded with billionaires?

So Bill Gates and Warren Buffet out to be about the most rightous dudes in the US!

And how about Columbian drug lord Pablo Escobar, Saddam Hussein, Yasser Arafat, etc., who were all billionaires? They must have been pretty rightous too.

That is an assinine statement which is somewhat self-fufilling as those called as bishop, SP, etc are generally the more well to do in the ward. Leadership position=more rightous. Un-(or under) employed ward member is most likely not going to get the call as bishop.

Its just a way to give hope to those poor schmucks who get married at 21 and start popping out kids hope that if they hold to the rod their ship will come in.

Actually BG and WB are probably more rightous than TSCC as they are or have pledged to use their billions to help their fellow man. Maybe the church could learn from that.

There was a x bishop in our ward who was a complete loser. He had a degree in education that he never used. He lost the home that had been built for him at cost. He lost everything they had by investing in get rich quick schemes. He is incredibly lazy. They are 62 now, and living off of welfare.

Him and his wife were so confused why husband and I do way better than them financially. They were sure they were more righteous than us. They gossiped and spied on us endlessly. When they could they would take our belongings. I once made a strawberry pie for them, they gave it away. I would say that these people were extremely jealous of us, and hated us for our success. They never missed an opportunity to say something judgmental and snotty to us.

They couldn't see that our circumstances came from a lifetime of consistent hard work and good money decisions. They thought going to the mormon church, getting high callings, and obeying all the rules would make them financially stable. They really believe that.

It's the prosperity gospel. The more money you give to LD$ Inc. the richer you become.
The mormon church is taking a cue from televangalists.

It's one of two main reasons I think my parents decided to get active--suddenly, after moving from Salt Lake to Arvada, Colorado in 1974. My mom thought it would improve her marriage, and my dad fell for the line about tithing and prosperity.

Of course neither thing happened, so the forced churchgoing only lasted about 5 years and they reverted to inactivity after moving back to Utah in 1980. Mom always said she'd go to church if Dad would go with, but he never did and she ended up going by herself some time after he died in 2003.

Anyway, I specifically remember him talking (in his way, that always sounded like he was trying to convince himself) about how the Lord would send more money to replace the tithing, and thinking it made no sense.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2012 06:17PM by munchybotaz.

Some of my relatives had the same experience. They didn't have much money at all, and decided they wanted better lives. They had lessons on how they would be blessed tenfold if they just lived the gospel. So they paid their tithing in full faithfully even though they were barely making it financially as it was, went to the temple, went to church, magnified their callings, read the labels on soda cans to make sure they weren't drinking caffeine, kept the sabbath holy, etc. etc. etc. They went whole hog for about 15 years during the 80's and 90's and all that ever happened was they got poorer and sicker.

They ended up divorcing because one realized they were on a hamster wheel and wanted off. That one remarried a nevermo and hasn't been to church in 15 years or more, and is doing quite well financially. AFAIK the other one still goes and is still poor.

The prosperity principal is actually what turned me into an agnostic/atheist. I didn't recognize what was happening while I was active in TSCC, but after I left I went to Science of Mind church and read Deepak Chopra and his ilk. I did everything they said, religiously. I tried so hard to manifest wealth, and got so frustrated before it finally dawned on me that it was a big pile of crap. Every single bit of it.

Aha! So the Mormons promise men the chance of eternal life, endless sex and polygamy in the after-life, and wealth in this one.

He seemed to be equating prosperity more to a stable traditional family life rather than just "righteousness".

Right! That is exactly how TBMs will attempt to spin it.

I listened to the first half of that talk from the audio link.
It reminded me of a politician promising that his plan will bring about prosperity, and that his oponents are wrong about cause n effect. To Ballard, the oponent is secular wisdom, and religious devotion is the fix.

To Ballard, if people live by religious principles, they will have stronger families, and better/richer lives.

It's not quite so B&W as god-worship = get rich. But it is a political speech aimed at getting the vote to the church to bring about all the same kinds of promises politicians make.

"Statistically, those who have less education and consequently lower incomes are less likely to marry and to go to church, and much more likely to be involved in crime and to have children outside of marriage."

I beg to differ. According to the most recent Gallop Poll, Mississippi is the most religious state:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/153479/mississippi-religious-state.aspx

As the most religious state, Mississippi is also at the top with...less education....lower incomes...and children outside of marriage.

I would think that if Ballard were correct that Vermont and New Hampshire would be poverty pockets of uneducated people.

-------------------------------------------------------
> "Statistically, those who have less education and
> consequently lower incomes are less likely to
> marry and to go to church, and much more likely to
> be involved in crime and to have children outside
> of marriage."
>
>

Fuuuuuuuuuuck you asshole times infinity

oh barf! I cant even listen to it. I hate it when they cant control their dam mouths, I hear him opening his nasty mouth every other word. ugh.

keep paying your tithing and you'll be rich. See, I just said, we're the best and the richest and so will you be.

If you are wicked, ye have no promise.
Sound familiar?
It should.
The Book of Marmon is loaded with stories and promises like this

I didn't hear the talk but really!!! Tell me why my never-mo dh and I do way better than my brother's family, my sister's family? Granted, there are a couple of sister's whose husbands earn more than us but a dentist and a high-end computer programmer would!

Freaking stupid!

My husband does not have a college education. He was a mormon 20 years out of 60.

out of everyone on my mormon side of the family he makes the most money, hands down. We also have the fewest children. A month after he resigned he was promoted at work and his pay instantly doubled. He also received some huge retirement benefits. To us, it feels like the church was holding him back. He got chastised more than once for turning down certain callings and putting his job and family before the church. As we close in on retirement age, I'm so glad he didn't listen to the unemployed bishop.

Okay, this is one talk I definitely won't listen to. Thanks for the heads up on this one.

Mormonism has morphed from a communal society where the United Order was the ideal to one where networth = righteousness. Other than the fact he is Mormon royalty, Mitt Romney is adored by Mormons because he made a lot of money. Never mind that his tactics were questionable and did harm to many people's lives. He is wealthy and handsome, so he is a worthy standard bearer for Mormonism.

Where once charity was prime, now the poor are denounced as lazy. Where the rich were once considered greedy and cold, they are now the paragons of LDS society. Mormonism has devolved into a prosperity Gospel, with all the inherent problems that brings to a church.

The Book of Mormon states several times something to the effect of:

Alma 38:1
Inasmuch as ye shall keep the commandments of God ye shall prosper in the land; and inasmuch as ye will not keep the commandments of God ye shall be cut off from his presence.


So Ballard's remarks are consistent with Mormon canon. The problem runs deeper than just Ballard's talk.

Logical fallacies stand out a mile in that talk. Hope it raises more questions than answers.

Something the Mormon church has missed in its teachings about the 'traditional' family is that our understanding of the family unit, the nuclear family in this case, is that it was not always like this. A few hundred years ago people lived with extended family all in the same household and this is still the case in parts of the world.

I think it is safe to say that when they preach prosperity, they are sub-conciously telling the sheeple to donate more and become more earnest in activity.

The sad thing is that Jesus taught the exact opposite. There's your proof the church isn't true right there.