I just overheard my kids in the other room talking with each other about the church.. my oldest (12 yr old boy) is still adamant that the church is true. and even began crying when telling his 2 younger siblings that we were all wrong..

I really fear that he is so trapped in the idea believing in the belief, that there is no way to get through to him.. especially now he starting to listen less and less.. he is also on the autism spectrum & has high functioning aspergers. He has never even attended church regularly but did take missionary discussion a little over a year ago when dh decided that the kids needed to be baptized.

the situation is also a bit more complicated with a totally believing jack-mo husband, VERY TMB extended family, and rural UT town (full of love bombing/pressuring/intrusive school friends & teachers). i have to be very careful at home about even mentioning anything to do with religion around my husband (or around younger children who repeat everything they hear) or it gets real ugly, real fast. i have showed my kids pages from "by his own hand upon a papyrus" and talked to them about it. I've also talked to them about using their brain and researching instead of using feelings to prove things are right or wrong.. and lots of things along those lines.

oh, and..i also worry because I'm very limited to the things i am able to voice openly, that its giving the underlying message that I'm hiding things because I'm wrong. anyway I'm just felling very down about it all.. : (

I am not clear what you want from your son. I am thinking he may be reacting to change and disagreement between you and your husband rather than to church issues per se. I am wondering if he needs reassurance and his sense stability reinforced.

That is the right track. Aspergers kids love routine, and any interruption in how their world functions, is painful to them. They also, despite all outward appearances, want social interaction, they just don't want it in very large doses. A small Sunday school class is a comfortable setting for them, as opposed to a large crowded school.

Kids with Aspergers also love learning, and can devour things way above the level for their age group. Start getting him science books. Nothing in your face religion, at first, but if you know anything by authors that also have books that disprove the whole God myth, you can start with their non-confrontational books, and after your kid starts to idolize the author, he will be more receptive to the more mind opening ones.

sorry, i will try to clarify a bit..

my son is a very intelligent & creative. He loves art, science, reading, history, computers etc.. he is inquisitive, open-minded and loves to learn new things. He wants to learn all the facts he can about things. He is constantly looking up info, and will talk & talk about all the things he's learned. It makes him happy, and i love that is makes him happy!!

But when it come to the the church, he is totally different.. its almost like he is quashing his own desires to learn and explore any of the facts/ideas/beliefs.. he is not happy. his mind is completely closed, he is suppressing his own natural need/wants to explore and learn.

If he likes to learn different things, is it possible to introduce him to other religions? Maybe give him a perspective on what others believe around the world.

I don't have children. I'm not certain what works. Cat dynamics is much easier to deal with.

Take him cool places on Sundays. Give him fun books to read that distract him from the BOM. Change the subject when he starts talking about the church. When he started to talk to his siblings go in and offer some fun TV show. He is young enough to forget these silly beliefs.

as an aspie myself, you need to remove him from the environment of mormons, and move to long island or new jersey. He will have a hard time with the change, but he is young and life is so much better here. there is the beach, boats fishing, amusement parks, way more action than he would have in utah. I came from texas, to the east. Life is never dull here. and everything is great, minus the white shirt and ties and the jumper, capri wearing women. he is really gonna have to getaway from the mormons, if he dosen't you are in for the long haul.

Hey I found my exit in new jersey too! Living in low mormon populations allow you to see that there are a lot of good people with good values-even though they are not mormon. ;)

My twelve year old had a hard time until I was finally honest about Joseph Smith himself for her to fully understand why none if it could be true. Also, if he is an avid reader my daughter read all of the Rick Riordan books and she had a real good laugh when she looked at the egyptian picture that joseph smith drew because CLEARLY the gods are mislabeled by joseph. That was good visual evidence for her to see how he didn't know what the he was talking about.

If you think about the role of a parent in raising children, it isn't to get them to have a carbon copy of your values (religious or otherwise), but rather to create a competent adult with the skills and mental ability to cope with their environment and people they encounter when you are no longer present.

To that end, I offer these questions and topics that I have found helpful in shaping my own personal philosophy. I hope you find them useful as discussion topics with your son to help him develop his own philosophy about the world and his place in it.

1) What is the difference between science and psudoscience?
My short answer: Science deals with theories that can be proven false and experiments that can be duplicated. Psudoscience cannot be tested.

2) What would prove [insert theory/religion/claim here] false?
Credit goes to Karl for this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper

3) What is truth?
My answer: A description of reality.

4) How do you know what reality is?
My answer: Your five senses.
My revised question: How do you think you know what reality is?

5) Allegory of Plato's Cave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2afuTvUzBQ

6) In psychology, what does "throwing down an anchor" mean?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/a/anchoring.htm

7) Is there only one reality?
My answer: If there is only one reality one (or maybe both) of us is not accurately perceiving reality.

If there are multiple realities, my beliefs may be just as valid in my reality as your beliefs are in yours, but we will never know because we don't have a common reference point from which we can compare our beliefs. If there are multiple realities, none of us know with what we are dealing and we cannot reliably learn from other's experiences.

8) What gives evidence credibility? What discredits purported evidence?
If there was one class I could make every kid in the United States take, this would be it.
This course lists for $250 but it goes on sale at least once a year for about $70.
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=4294

Another great course. On sale now.
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=9344

9) Make an argument for the pro side of an issue. Abortion, gay marriage, gun control, evolution, meaning of the commerce clause, pre-marital sex, whatever. Now turn around and make an argument for the con side of the same issue.

10) What is the timeline of human history?
A basic understanding of the timeline is helpful is seeing how the puzzle fits together.
Changes one's perspective when one realizes there was something called the First Council of Nicaea and there's a record of it that wasn't buried in New York for 1400 years. Then there was a Second Council of Nicaea. What were those Crusades all about? Seems like we're about to start those up again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

11) Copernicus and Galileo
Just have your son read the biographies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

12) What is the purpose of religion, any religion?
My answer: Good luck with this one. Is it really the opiate of the masses? Who said it was?

13) Does man(you) exist to serve a religion/church or was the religion created to serve/improve you?
What are the costs and benefits of being Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, or LDS?
My answer: More luck with this one.

14) Is it possible to have different sizes of infinity?
If infinity goes on forever how can forever have multiple sizes? Georg Cantor proved it does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor

15) Where do crop circles come from? Are they all hoaxes?
Just a little more mind expansion. A google search can make think about things you haven't considered before.

16) One more thing. The man who uncovered the Bernie Maddof fraud, Harry Markopolos, has aspergers.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18560_162-4833667.html

It doesn't have to be all that often, but every time you express disagreement with the pronouncements of a Mormon authority figure, it will make an impression on your son.

Having select books around might also help. When I was a young teen I read some feminist literature that was on the bookshelf in my home. Those books made a powerful impression on me and helped me to disengage from the religion of my birth. You could have books on evolution, archeology, comparative religions, etc. The book, "Guns, Germs, and Steel" might be a good choice. I've found with boys that highly visual books (with lots of high-impact photos, illustrations, and diagrams) often work best.

I don't know how this would play out in an autistic kid, but generally I'd recommend teaching him to question you, too. Occasionally say something ridiculous, or almost ridiculous, and if he doesn't catch it prompt him a little; get him to question the accuracy of your statement. If he doesn't catch it, further your absurd position a little bit, until he does.

Let him know you're just testing him (lest he lose trust in you personally) because you want him to question things he is told.

Has he been bullied before? This might be what is keeping him in the matrix.

You may need to offer a substitute structure (if you can't move away from Mormons)

An example might be a Christian Church instead of Mormonism. It is a compromise (perhaps for you) but will give him some familiarity in doctrine and Sunday school classes, without the terrible masturbation focus.

Even if I didn't believe in God, I would gradually wean my child away from being taught his sexual urges are second only to murder as a serious sin.

If his attachment is to his friends, you might consider letting him go on fun outings with the Mormon group, like hikes, but not to religious services.

It's a tough call and requires great patience on your part.
After you take in all this advice, I am sure you will become more and more clear about what is best for your boy. You sound like a devoted parent and he's lucky to have you.

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