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Posted by: apatheist ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 01:05PM

My wife is 30 years old, born and raised in the crutch, and she'd never heard the word before that she can recall. She saw it on the Mormon Flow Chart (see other post) and was curious what the word meant.

Is it used in general mormon discussion or is it more of a temple-specific word?

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Posted by: bc ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 01:06PM

Nope it's not Mormon specific.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

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Posted by: apatheist ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 01:09PM

Thanks!

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Posted by: bc ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 01:09PM

It is pretty commonly understood in Mormonism that Elohim is the name of God the Father while Jehovah is the name of Christ.

There are specific characters in the temple movie with these names that make it crystal clear. However this is widely known even among members who haven't attended the temple - I believe those names are regularly used in the Gospel Principle's manual for one. I don't know how your wife could have missed that one in 30 years.

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Posted by: Puli ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 02:05PM

"El" was the name of the "supreme god, the father of humankind and all creatures and the husband of the goddess Asherah as recorded in the clay tablets of Ugarit."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

Several books I've read say that El was believed to be an early God of the Northern region before Israel came into existence and shows up in a number of Hebrew and biblical names - El Shaddai, IsraEL, MichaEL, GabriEL, etc.

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Posted by: bc ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 02:45PM

In other words El is the God that Judaism stole to make their God, before Christianity stole Judaisms God, before Mormonism stole Christianity's God...

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Posted by: helamonster ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 02:08PM

But if they REALLY wanted to be like ancient Jews, they'd've called God "Adonai".

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Posted by: bignevermo ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 03:26PM

listening to Alpha Blondi and it was in his lyrics...yup Jesus reagae!! :) welll kinda...he sings about Jah,Allah, Adonai and Jesus...great music BTW!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2012 03:27PM by bignevermo.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 03:14PM

I don't think "stole" is the right characterization for what went on in the ancient world. The more we are finding out from archaeology, linguistics, scientific analysis of things like trees and grains, etc. the more we are coming to understand that there was a tremendous inter-cultural "conversation" and interchange going on in the ancient world...by centuries, and now known to be millennia, before historians of the 19th and 20th centuries ever anticipated or thought, in their times, was possible.

There was a lot of very ancient cultural "fusion" going on: cultures taking this and that from other cultures they became aware of or which began making an impact (in trade, war, etc.) on the "initial" culture.

And never, ever underestimate the influence of ancient women when it comes to the growth and change of ancient religion. All that "pillaging and raping" meant that "foreign" women were regularly inducted into tribes and groups foreign to THEM, and when they got pregnant (as they usually did), the children they gave birth to were raised with the "kitchen gods" of their mothers as much as they were by the temple-or-whatever gods of their fathers. (This is the fundamental reason why Judaism is passed down through the maternal line: in ancient times it was the mother who generally, TRULY, decided the REAL religious upbringing of her children.)

We now know that ancient peoples, in most areas, were being strongly influenced by peoples far, far away from them geographically...but were on the same trade routes, or "philosophy" routes, or warpaths.

My own personal exception to all of the above is Islam. It has always been my impression (though I am definitely mostly ignorant in this area) that Mohammed did, in fact, "steal" the parts of Judaism he chose as a basis for Islam, then declared everyone not following his dicta (for example: the Jews he "stole" from) infidels. Mohammed's written understanding of Judaism, which he stated he was, in effect, "borrowing" from, is SO skewed that it indicates not only (to me) outright theft, but conscious malice as well.

Mohammed aside, however, I think the pretty much global process was not "stealing," but FUSING. (Syncretizing.)

And the concept of Elohim, regardless of its probable Canaanite origin, had (so far as we know now), it's ACTUAL origin (we think) in the pre-Vedic Hindu concepts which led to the concept of Brahaman (the "one" god; the god who was not only god of all, but of what we would now call the "universe" as we know it), and of Nirguna Brahman ("the Godhead behind God," it has been called by Meister Eckhart: Absolute Reality itself; pure self-existent being, all of which is beyond the ability of our human minds to comprehend).

These concepts, which are increasingly being discovered and proven (from current archaeology, etc.) to be thousands and then even more thousands of years more ancient on this planet than we have ever before thought possible, eventually--so far as we can figure out now--"arrived" as human understanding(s) at what we now call the Middle East...and this led to the Canaanites...which contemporaneously or consecutively, led to the Hebrew concepts of Elohim (the god of "our" universe, because the Hebrews--unlike the ancient Hindus--could not yet consciously conceive of anything BEYOND our particular universe).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2012 03:18PM by tevai.

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Posted by: bc ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 03:30PM

Yes your description is much more accurate than my tongue-in-cheek use of the world "stole". Kudos on saying it so well.

The one reason the negative connotation of "stole" perhaps applies a bit is that each "fused" religion then has the audacity to claim superiority of the one they got all their concepts from - Jews consider themselves and beliefs superior to the heretics, Christians from Jews, Mormons from Christians all failing to admit where there origins come from.

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Posted by: bc ( )
Date: April 25, 2012 03:33PM

Note: By "heretics" I meant "pagans"

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