I am not so new agey as to always talk about the age of aquarius, but I am around enough circles to hear about the concept here or there. There is a Hindu concept of 'The Age of Kali' which would be a sort of dark, challenging time with its own good elements perhaps, but rougher elements.

It is interesting to hear people talking about the days of the world based on 'economic downtimes' and project that deeply into the future, or 'the End of the American Empire' (like the fall of the Roman Empire). Or to hear people talk about Mayan 2012.

The psychology of all that seems to me to be obviously providing people some sense of direction, which is why it arises so much.

I often hear the "Last Days" and how dark it all is and I think "Really, this time is worse than a time without child protective services? Without the web? Worse than the Dark Ages? Worse when Catholicism was running through the crusades?"

People want the weather forecast. People want to be 'certain'. We want some sort of order in our heads. (I sure do).

I am personally grappling with just how to handle all the doom and gloom of the last days when I hear about it from Mormon friends and family. It feels like such a dark cloud. But I don't necessarily believe in anything else.

I have asked some version of this, but continue to grapple with ideal ways of handling this when it comes up. Anybody else get buried in last days conversations? Have wise/politically correct ways of dealing with them? Does it come up much in conversation when around TBM's?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2012 02:18PM by wonderer.

My folks - hard core TBMs believe that this is the worst time ever in the history of the world. They can't list specific things that make it worse and always jump right to "more sin" BS. When I told them one of their apes said this is a wonderful time to live they told me I was lying. Some people can not be helped - I wish them all a very happy end of times.

Now I'll get back to enjoying the beautiful weather, my kids, and the freedoms i enjoy as an american.

...they want a finish line. They want this life to be over because they aren't enjoying it. They want the happy ending ... SOON! Because, holy crap, living in accordance to their beliefs is getting to be a drag. Oh, and, they want those people they don't like to get their smackdown RIGHT NOW! Yeah, that's it! None of this "life and time just go on" crap. Give the pious people the payoff before they go any farther out of their minds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2012 03:25PM by Stray Mutt.

+1,000 support Stray Mutt's observation.

They are determined to "endure to the end" and the "end" can't come fast enough - to stop the treadmill of obligations and tasks they have to complete so that god will "love" them, and they can be rulers on earth/heaven.

They are hoping Jesus comes back and "smites" all the people they don't like as well.

Stupid cult.

I think part of the issue is just how bleak they paint them out to be and how it is always endless preparation for disaster. I think there are ways of preparing that have some value, but often it sounds like it is one family against the world.

I think one thing I may say if people ask if I am prepared, is that I am part of a community that is very prepared, and hopefully that community is doing what they feel is right for them while I am doing what is right for me, and if the last days come then we will be ready and if they don't, then I have things to share with them about living in the moment. :)

Although I am still very curious to hear what others may have to say, and how it impacts them. I think part of the challenge for me is just sitting at dinners and hearing it discussed, or having a friend or someone connected to family over and suddenly having it be a topic of conversation that I am put on trial around.

I guess I could always ask them if they are ready to reincarnate. And if they say huh? I may say something like that that is closer to my point of view and I am ready to do that. (It isn't necessarily my point of view, but I think I believe that is more likely than the last days as conceived by many religious folks).

I do think hard times could come and I do work to be mindful of general awareness of that, but not overly so. I think that is just smart living and learning from history.

2 thoughts along this lines.

1) I had an interesting conversation with my TBM wife a couple months ago about this subject - that I didn't believe the world was getting more evil. Slavery is one of several examples of a world that is more moral than it ever has been before. It kind of blew her mind, but she definitely agreed I had a point.

2) When I run into the LDS crazies that think the second coming is imminent (in the next 2-25 years depending on the person) I ask - so this is the Last (7th dispensation) right? How long does a dispensation last? 1000 years - so that means we should be looking at 2830 for the 2nd coming - 1000 years after Joseph Smith.

It is always a last day for someone somewhere. There have always been great evil times throughout history.

You might look into the writings of Greg Carey, Professor of New Testament at Lancaster (PA) Theological Seminary (UCC) He is considered a foremost scholar on the Book of Revelations. His views would be considered "liberal."

He blogs on ntgeeks.blogspot.com and on the Huffington Post. The following is from his recent three part Huff Post blog on end times and Revelation.

"Here's the truth: no academic interpreter of Revelation understands the book as a roadmap for the future, much less as telling contemporary Christians that these are the last days. Instead, scholars understand that Revelation originally spoke to the conditions of its own time and place. It offered a specific group of first century Christians not only hope for the future but also an interpretation -- a "revelation" -- of the world they inhabited. In other words, the best way to understand Revelation does not require an official Dick Tracy Apocalyptic Decoder Ring. We best understand Revelation when we read it like any other ancient text, in its own historical and cultural context."

slavery, human sacrifice, 30yo life span, plagues, starvation, serfdom, WW1, WW2, executions for entertainment, child brides, women's rights (lack of), transportation to penal colonies for minor offences to depopulate slums, child labour, gulags, widespread cannibalism prior to European contact, no food storage (regular famine everywhere), workhouses for the poor, selling children.

Sure some of these things are still happening, usually in more religious and less secular countries, but things have *never* been worse than now? Really?

+1

Civilization appears to be progressing through stages similar to human developmental stages.

We still have our issues, but things are far better now than they used to be.

TSCC wants to be stuck back in the 1950s. But they romanticize the period like a "Leave it to Beaver" episode.

Think of all of the problems back then! Civil rights, etc.

Even less people die in wars now.

Granted, some parts of the globe have more catching up to do than others.

I never could see why anyone thinks this is the worst of times.
We have been able to prevent disease, live long and enjoy all sorts of conveniences and comforts provided by technology and science. None of those things came from a "prophet," or even from "god." They were the result of hard work by strong people.

The early mormons thought the last days were right on top of them, and that was found to be wrong.

The problems caused by industrialization are either solved or are being solved, i.e. air and water pollution. Climate Change is so politicized and full of fanaticism that I'm reserving judgement on it. Personally, I think it's overblown and will not be nearly the problem that so many fear.

People are either screaming that it's the last days, or quivering because we are destroying the earth and ourselves.

I've been around for 60 years and all I see is improvement. Not for all, but for many.

Our challenge is not to worry about "prophesy" (all fake) or 2012 armageddon. It's to share the good life with so many who don't yet have it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2012 07:37PM by rationalguy.

Yep, warming stopped a decade ago despite rising CO2. It's a multi-trillion dollar scam.

Someone in the last General Boredom Conference said that it isn't coming any time soon. That's actually a first!

Christians have been saying the second coming is just around the corner since BEFORE Jesus was crucified. Mormons have been saying it since the beginning.

I just tell people it isn't going to happen. Or laugh at them. (My wife didn't like it much when I laughed at her when she was recounting a "History Channel" show about the end of the world in December 2012. I didn't mean it, I just laughed because what she was saying was so preposterous.)

Like my MIL says "I've got news for ya, these ARE the good old days. Anyone that wants to go back in time is nuts."

Just take away 2 things that people have gotten so used to that they take them for granted. Let's say the microwave and the computer, (you can keep your car) there would be a lot of melt downs.

..."how it is always endless preparation for disaster"

nailed it right there son! The "end of times" crowd is not exclusively the Providance of the Mormons...but the core of the "survivalist movement" seems to be the Zion corridor.

oh and nice to see you are still here and posting wonderer!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2012 07:48PM by bignevermo.

My rabid TBM in-laws are in the end-days-survivalist camp. One year for Xmas they gave us all fanny packs and cheap backpacks as gifts -- for use in our 72-hour kits. The "gifts" came with a lecture/FHE on preparedness and how the "end times" are imminent -- lots of natural disasters, evil folks taking over the world, etc.

Of course, people who believe in Noah's ark as a literal, historical event are gullible enough to also buy that the end of the world is happening this year because the current Mayan calendar cycle happens to stop in 2012.

Lots of people encourage this belief because they gain from it: sales of books, MREs, and emergency preparedness gear; religious power; or just a feeling of superiority when they can scare other gullible people.

On Dec. 21st this year, I will celebrate the Winter Solstice with a ritual, followed by yummy mulled wine -- and a good laugh when the world doesn't blow up.

I don't mind. I'm curious to find out what people think is going to happen! Some of it is really fascinating. I don't believe in any kind of end of days, but I know some people are very serious about it, even making preparations!

the deck is stacked in favor of the Last Days crowd, that's the way they play the game.

Hasn't happened yet? You're being impatient.

The Last Days are one of my TBM husband's favorite subjects...he goes on and on...eyes glaze over...when I am feeling really bitchy and brave I give him a little speech about how there have ALWAYS been wars, diseases, bad weather etc and no, those things don't mean Christ is going to visit soon. If he liked wars he should study Medieval European history some time. I think he got tired of hearing me refute him because he doesn't lecture about this as often anymore...thank God!

. . . . ESPECIALLY to be a woman.

Do these people NOT remember that there have been far worse times? Disease? War? Natural disasters and famine? It seems like a little study of history for about the last couple thousand years would show a LOT worse times than ours. And Jesus didn't come back then.

Perhaps these people are just trying to reinforce their beliefs and looking for signs that Jesus will come and rescue them. A darker perspective might be that they think they are the center of the universe and have no clue about the real suffering that many others have done before them.

... during a personal revelation.

Went something like this:

God: "Son, its been 2000 years. Don't you think its about time?"

JuHEEsus: "Sure thing, Pops! I'll get right on it just as soon as I can PLAY THE F**KING PIANO AGAIN!"

Don't know if it makes any impact, but folks quickly learn not to ask about my beliefs.

Timothy

I sell them Rapture Insurance. For a small up front fee, I agree to look after their pets should they get raptured.

Actually, I don't do that, but I read somewhere where there is a company ran by atheist who do offer that service.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 10:02AM by forbiddencokedrinker.

no one knows the end of time according to the fiction in the Koran and the bible.

The Mayan calendar had to end sometime.

Not worried about anything but enjoying every breath I take and the food I eat.

I most certainly enjoy not worrying about when the end is coming because it made me forget to live in the present.

Life is good, although I aint rich. Maybe I am 10% richer now!

I encourage them to drink the koolaid or to move very far away.