"Ironic statements (verbal irony) are statements that imply a meaning in opposition to their literal meaning." - Wikipedia

In europe, especially northern europe, many people use verbal irony in communication, I do not know at all how common it is in america but I saw a swedish tv-show once, in which the british actor and comedian John Cleese said that his american wife (today she is his ex-wife) did not understand irony.

What kind of irony? John Cleese said something like this, an example; I can be driving through London with my wife a very grey and rainy day, and tell my wife that the sun is really shining bright today and that the sky is clear. She never gets it! She do not understand irony. Americans do not understand irony!

I never really forgot what he said about irony.

A couple of years ago a swedish friend of mine joked with an american fire-fighter (a very brave, skilled and experienced fire-fighter) about his profession, He said; come on! What is so special with being a fire-fighter? Hey, just wear a funny yellow helmet, just climb some ladders, just carry a little axe in the belt and so on. The fire-fighter did not really know how he should respond to the silly statements he just had heard. I never heard the full reply, but my swedish friend said something like this; that fire-fighter, yes him, he can not relax, he need to laugh at himself and his profession sometimes.

Do you think verbal irony say something about a culture?

Is the lack of verbal irony a proof that a culture respect peoples freedom, worth, and integrity?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2012 04:23PM by volrammos.

Irony is heavily used in the US. The way it is presented is where there is some difference I think.

I used to work for a large corporation in the finance department - ugh, I much prefer engineers! But these people - lord. Talk about misunderstood irony. I learned I had to speak simply, in short sentences, absolutely literally, otherwise they didn't get it.

Irony is the basis for much comedy. Ever seen our movies? Anything with Ben Stiller? Of course we understand and use irony.

A poor or indeed, lack of a sense of humor is an indication of mental/emotional illness. Of course, there are instances of different kinds of autism too, Asperger's, and the like, where people don't naturally pick up on non-literal meanings.

I'm kind of astounded you're asking this.

Sounds like it's based on European stereotyping of Americans.

bc Wrote:
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> Sounds like it's based on European stereotyping of
> Americans.

Europeans do not stereotype people.

Oh, wait... that's either self-referential sarcasm or irony. ;oD

And British people aren't European. heh heh! :oD

I am always sarcastic. It always surprises me when people take what I say literally. I have had people tell me they can't "read me" and therefore can't tell my emotions. I get baffled and wonder how anyone could take such ridiculousness seriously. Americans, in general, are uptight in comparison to the world. We live in a bubble where we are right and others are wrong. We're a young country, we'll eventually achieve the ultimate wisdom of the rest of the world. As for misunderstanding comedy....that would mean no sense of humor. If you can't laugh you'll cry.

Maybe they do get you and just don't think you are funny.


JK :)

Ironically (pun intended), I had an English friend who never understood my ironic self-references (I'm American, if you didn't know).

Some examples:

She would say something like, "Wow, you really write well." I'd say ironically, "Yes, I'm stellar. I'm amazing." Then she'd say I was being egotistical.

Or if someone said something unfairly critical of me, I'd say something like, "You got me. I'm pure evil." Then she'd say I was being too hard on myself.

Verbal irony is appreciated by some and not by others. Not sure why some people don't understand it or get it.
I remember telling an associate that my husband did not appreciate my sarcasm, and him telling me that sarcasm was my only redeeming quality. I found that very clever and funny.

Over time, I've dealt with a lot of the hurt and anger of leaving the church with sarcasm and satire. I've never thought it was particularly mean-spirited, but my satiric and sarcastic writings have earned far more wrath from believers than have my posts where I criticize the church head-on and seriously.

Go figure.

We use Irony and Sarcasm all the time.

I do notice that when I am dealing with someone from anywhere else than the USA I tend to speak more plainly, because I don't know if they'd get my references.

Same with someone talking to me from any other country, I have to stap and thinl, did they mean that literaly? I'm more used to people who are trying to be very exact becasue of the language and cultural differences. If you watch most British Comedy shows, you have to pay attention until you get used to the differences.

You have to think where the person is froma dn know a little to "get it"
Much like posting in forums, I always tend to be less critical
with posters who I know are blind, using voice programs or struggling with Mental Illinesses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2012 04:51PM by nomilk.

nomilk Wrote:
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> If you watch most British Comedy shows, you have to pay attention until you get used to the differences.

Agree. British humor doesn't always translate well across the pond. It can be very understated for American tastes. We do get Monty Python, though!

And Absolutely Fabulous is hysterical!

BBC – “Coupling” ingenious comedy from Steven Moffat. Any day I have a “bad” day I slip in one of the DVD’s. Next thing I know I laughing so hard I’ve completely forgotton about whatever else went on that day.

I’ll also admit to enjoying Benny Hill and it’s not just the slapstick or the scantily clad women either. He was a master of the art of innuendo but there was a lot of subtle “British” style humor as well. I remember one episode where during his stand up routine he gave an example of the subtleness of “British” humor.

“One day I made a visit to the zoo. While there I happened to visit the camel exhibit. I noticed a sign there which had the following message on it…Beware the Camel Spits!.....and I was.”

I have been the only person in a theater laughing hysterically at a Ricky Gervais comedy. He must have been too subtle for some American sensibilities.

I think looking at almost any "popular" comedy will show you that Americans love very broad comedy. Shows that are more subtle and witty take a beating in the ratings (30 Rock getting cancelled, for example).

Twice when I was living in Vermont, and attending a Protestant megachurch, at least mega by Vermont standards, the pastor intentionally said something over-the-top funny, and I laughed hysterically, and nobody else laughed, and everybody turned around and glared at me. Oh well.

I actually remember one of them - he said, "That reminds me of a Pat and Mike story, but this being Vermont, I should make it an Ethan and Ira story." I'm guessing the pastor and I were both non-native-Vermonters, and he was poking a little fun at their cultural icons, which I thought was hilarious, and the natives apparently didn't.

Another time, I was watching a televangelist show, and he told a funny story about his wife, then said, "When I get home, my wife is going to kill me!" And the American Sign Language interpreter very properly added, "just kidding". Properly because that's the way to translate that idiom across cultures.

I love humor, even though when I take do-it-yourself screenings for Asperger's on the internet, I am way off the chart as having it bigtime. Oh well.

Would eating eggs be eating *your* young?

So I eat others' young thank you very much!

Great response from all of you.

I never use irony or humor. Everything I ever say, or write on the recovery board, is meant to be stone cold serious.

Haha! Whatever.

In New Jersey, I grew up around people who used puns and irony all the time. Many of the older residents understand it well. I can't vouch for the younger set. In the West there have been many times when I've used irony, among Mos and No Mos, and they just don't get it, even my three older children, who were raised in the West, and in Mormonism. Maybe it has to do with how people had to think when settling the West, in order to function and survive. Just a guess. Easterners had a head start on education and other cultural aspects. My youngest son , who was partially raised in the East, and escaped Mormonism when very young, seems to understand it better. Since being back in the Tri-Cities, Washington, after more than a decade, I've realized that I'd better speak in simple terms, so as not to be misunderstood and judged as odd.

Us Westerners don't git ireny. It's probly are lack of educeshion

I here ya bc. But thin, I dont liv downsteem from hanford like karol y do.

Every place I ever worked, everyone was a comedian, and most of it was dry or ironic humor.
What a difference being now in the Pacific NW, where nobody has a sense of humor. People are dead serious and passive as hell. One of the things I HATE about this area -- the dead fish people.

subtlety
irony
sarcasm

They take everything literally.

And I have one thing to say about all this:

Verbal irony is really sick.

I use it all the time, but I call it sarcasm. I live in Texas.

It still amazes me that people don't get irony.

Then I realize they don't come from Texas.

are Native Americans.

I am convinced that half of all Native American folk lore is just stuff that they decided to see if they could pass off on the stupid white man.

Example, "Hey Redfeather, you won't believe what I got those stupid Mormons to do with the Buffalo chips."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 10:19AM by forbiddencokedrinker.

A definition of Irony from my second favo(u)rite sitcom...


Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

Americans do use irony, but maybe when people of differing nationalities are together, it makes it difficult to understand the others' humor. Being afraid to offend someone or look stupid to them makes people more timid until they know someone well.

We get both irony and sarcasm. But with us, sometimes, that sort of thing is more for people who know each other well. A stranger saying something like that is either thought to be rude, or stepping over the line. I might see it as provocation, versus the joke your friend intended it to be.

If we have just been introduced, and I perceive that your ironic comments are less ironic than sarcastic, or I don't know you well enough to know how you speak to others to be able to make any sort of accurate comparison, then I might actually take your words at face value--especially if you are using heavily inflected, accented English, and I'm not hearing the tone of voice you intended me to hear.

It's more of a miscommunication than a misunderstanding, maybe.

Tone of voice says much more than words, sometimes. So do facial expressions.

If your friend had a grin on his face and a mocking tone in his voice when he said those things to the firefighter, then the firefughter might have gotten the intended irony. If your friend looked serious, and spoke normally, then maybe not.

BTW, if a miscommunication occurs between two speakers, why is it the hearer who is presumed to have gotten it wrong?

Doesn't the speaker have an obligation to get their message across properly, in the first place?

Here, if someone using a different language than me, and doesn't understand me, I don't blame them---I just try harder to say what I mean, clearly, so that they can eventually understand it.

As for John Cleese, he's such a joker all the time, I bet his poor wife could never tell when he was being serious, or funny, or whatever.

She is his ex-wife, and if she is the one I am thinking of, he has publicly castigated her for (in his words), making him poor and making him have to do a world tour to pay her excessive alimony.

Maybe his comments that she never understood his irony, are a figurative slap in her face, for divorcing him?

Meaning, his comedic version of that story, is not an entirely accurate representation of her, or her understanding (or not) of verbal irony. Maybe you mistook his comicly exaggerated statements for truth?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 08:56AM by bookratt.

Raptor Jesus, I laugh at the eat your young thing because I got in an actual argument with an overzealous conservative freakazoid. When I realized he wasn't going to relent, I told him tell your mom she should have eaten you when you were born since she missed the abortion window. He then pointed out my children and went on another self-righteous you're a bad mother rant. Within minutes my husband realized what was going on and the man noticed my husband approaching. Mr. zealot freak jumped in his bus (yes an actual bus) and left! Sometimes the bible belt is insufferable!

<sarcasm>

Because pointing at clouds and commenting about the sunshine is f*cking hilarious.

With they sun so hot I froze to death Susanna don't you cry. Gets me every time.

I think Americans understand verbal irony but due to 20+ years of American sitcoms tend instead to use sarcasm. The sun so hot I froze to death; yeah I get it it's as funny as a pun, or in other w f*cking hilarious.

</sarcasm>
//Markup may be required to indicate tone.

Two words: Stephen Colbert.

My boss came and asked me if my crew and I would be able to finish the job on the line in four hours.
"Yes,I said, if we took a two hour break."
She had the queerest look on her face.. she could not understand that we would be done in two hours and if she wanted us to take four hours, we would have to take a two hour break to finish in four hours!

One stranded motorist was complaining about how small our isolated town was. (population 600 and no other towns within sixty miles of desert)
"I just couldn't stand living here! I just couldn't live in a town like this! This is so awful, I just couldn't live here!" she ranted.
Our tow truck driver who had brought in her car, said "That's why I live here Ma'am."
It went right over her head and she continued to complain!

I love the British comedy "Waiting for God".
"Keeping up Appearances" is very funny also.
my children loved "Last of the Summer Wine" as they were growing up. And "Have You Been Served?" is a classic.

"If you don't laugh you'll cry" is a good summary from a previous posting. Dry humor is quick and not easily understood no matter where you are.
There are some Yanks who will love dry humor and some who don't. I thought Benny Hill was very slap stick for the Brits, filling in the humor need like the Three Stooges.

And NO rabid TBM probably has the sense of humor for; What do you think my Father called the rooster that had thirty chickens on our farm growing up? I don't know. He named him "Lucky" she told me. Oh? I'd have thought he'd have called him "Brigham".!!!! You should have heard the uncomfortable silence around that table, not one person wanted to crack a smile, let alone chuckle!