Being an active Mormon, for me abstinence was critical. Now that I've left the church, I don't see it as so virtuous. In fact, I see it as a burden; we live in a world where it is okay to enjoy sex and experiment, and post-Mormonism, I find it difficult to adjust.


1. Were you abstinent before you left the church?

2. After you left, have/did you burst on to the sex scene with gusto, or do you still have difficulty making sense of it?

1.No. In fact it was one of the issues that made me realize it was bogus.

2. With gusto? I think that's putting it mildly.

1. I was abstinent before my marriage.

2. My wife and I had a good sex life before I left, and we still do.

1. Except for a couple of oops moments, totally abstinent.

2. Lots of sex with no hangups. I completely agree that abstinence is not virtuous and there is nothing special about a person who waits a long time before having sex.

Waiting for sex is no more special or virtuous than deciding to buy a hamburger without onions instead of a hamburger with them.

I was abstinent right up until the end. I did not lose my virginity until I was 28. I felt so guilty that I stopped going to church, or wearing garments. It was a couple more years before I realized the church was not true, but even back then I had strong suspicions it was a bunch of BS.

During that period I couldn't make myself believe in the church, but I was too scared to search out the answers and find out for myself that it was wrong.

But I am getting off topic. I married the first woman who ever had sex with me, and other then the child she gave me, the marriage was a disaster and ended in divorce. Since then, I have had sex only with two other girls. One was a co-worker who knew how screwed up my life was, and decided she wanted to instruct me in the ways of love, though I haven't really had much opportunity to put those skills to the test.

The other girl was ten years younger then me, and was basically using me for money. That relationship lasted only a couple of months.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2012 05:22PM by forbiddencokedrinker.

forbiddencokedrinker, that sounds rough. I'm turning 28 soon, and still a virgin. I'm going on my first date with a gal outside of the church, and I'm a bit nervous because the sexual norms are so different.

snb you strike me as something of an alpha male type. Even when you're trying to downplay your overt sexual ambition, you attract women (I saw that thread in response to Straymutt, you can't fool me)

Itzpapalotl, every time you post I envision you as a smoking hot school teacher wearing a tight button-up t-shirt. Honestly though, you are clearly comfortable with your sexuality and I envy that.

If things lead to other things naturally - be honest with your partner.

But don't let her be mean to you about your situation.

If she's understanding and accepting - jump right in.

Otherwise it's just about hurting someone who is vulnerable.

Maybe I'm just pretending, you never know. :)

Besides, I am no Greek God...

Be honest with her- Some chicks dig being a guy's first.

You're too funny about your image of me, but yes, I am fairly comfortable with my sexuality and in my own skin. Sometimes a little too much. :D

Greekgod, have lots of sex, just don't marry the first girl that lets you, or feel that you are duty bound to do so.

Dogzilla, I'm very sorry to hear what happened to you.

This is why I have a huge problem with the whole "law" of chastity thing. The Church emphasizes marriage and all that jazz...but then they don't even allow any kind of healthy relationship between people of the opposite sex. I am a convert, recently called to teach YW. I am horrified to hear my co-teacher issuing warnings to girls that they shouldn't get in a car with a boy their age, due to the risk that they might be tempted to break their commandments...and worse,lead a priesthood holder to.

HELLO!!!!!!!

Number one, statistically speaking, the girl is more likely to put herself in danger...not the other way around. The LDS Church treats every single, unsupervised woman as a Jezebel waiting to happen. (Another reason I picked this name. I strike fear into the hearts of all men, especially the young and horny.) Anyway, my visiting teacher, a married man old enough to be my father...and whom I kind of view as such, could not come to my house to give me a blessing when I was violently sick, because his companion couldn't make it. He offered to meet me at Church, which was 20 minutes away from where I live, and I was puking all over the place. And sure...I could germ up the place on a Wednesday night when all the Cub Scouts and YW were there for meetings, and I could give them my germs...and have other ward members have to disinfect the place afterwards...

Anyway, I digress. Maybe there would be fewer rapes, fewer divorces, and fewer misunderstandings in general if the church stopped pitting women and men as threats to each other...and instead helped them focus on building relationships instead of avoiding them. Maybe that way, people could start to establish personal boundaries, and recognize the boundaries of others. (Something a lot of BICs have a hard time with, in my observation.)

And I say this all in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. Because that's the way I still roll.

What I really recommend is that you have a wonderful masterbation session all by yourself for the first few dates so you can think clearly and not with your other head. Get to know her and find out if you have commonality. Let the anticipation build as the relationship grows. Then it will be so much better and not just everyday ho-hum sex.

In short, extreme virgin (including hand-virginity)/extreme non-virgin (including extreme...ahem, activities).

same as " Jarodsotherbrother"

I was the farthest thing from absinent when I was a TBM. Once I hit 14, I could no longer contain my sexuality. I only got in trouble when my mom turned me in to the bishop for giving BJs. So then I cooled it again, but it wasn't long until I was back add it. After I officially left, I was older and more responsible, less rebellious. I was able to maintain monogomous relationships with my ex and now my husband. But I don't believe that you should try and hide your sexuality. But good luck trying to convince TBM parents that that was the case. I was not raised with masturbation, and didn't feel brave enough to try it until I was 14. I had a later "coming out" if you will, than most of my peers, but I made up for it during High School and part of college.

After struggling to fit into the Mormon mold, where I was to marry in the temple and have a lot of children, I could finally face the fact that I was never meant for romantic relationships, or for bearing children. I'm finally comfortable in my own skin. My own non-sexual skin.

1. Virtually non-existent most of the time. I lost virginity at age 19 and at that time had a pretty open-minded and free attitude about sex.

2.Virtually non-existent most of the time. I just don't get laid. Just too damned shy perhaps. F#*# it. lol.

so..you are stiff and neked but by yourself...I am sorry 'bout that..

I'm a convert, still practice...temple-worthy and all that jazz.

0.) In my pre-Mormon existence, I was a wild thing! I calmed down BEFORE I started investigating the church. Both of the missionaries I had discussions with had crushes on me (One of them ended his mission shortly before I got dunked...sent me a letter confessing to me...hence the name)

1.) Haven't gotten laid in 2 years. I'm a wee tad antsy, but fortunately got most of it out of my system before I entered the baptismal waters. I'm almost 30.

1-2.) I see two possible outcomes:

A) I'll marry a nice virginal Mormon man like yourself, and make him the happiest motherf***er on the face of the earth on our wedding night.

B) I'll leave the church, and still make some man (or maybe even woman?) the happiest motherf***er on the face of the earth.

Either way, somebody is going to be very, very happy.

Oh, and Greek God?

You know that "smoking hot" teacher you were talking about with the tight button-down shirt? *unbuttons the top button*

...then I don't see what the 15 old geezers' opinions about my body have to do with my temple worthiness.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2012 05:33PM by Robin.

...Mortals.

Men who just so happened to make it to a position of power where they can play God.

The questions were asked to me in such a way that I didn't have to lie. If I was specifically asked if I masturbate, I would have walked out of the room without completing the interview. I've lucked out with a bishop who's not a pervert.

Worthiness is in the eyes of the beholder.

I never let the church get in the way of my sex life. When I fell in love with my wife to be, we did what lovers do....

I didn't have a choice whether I would abstain or not -- sex was forced on me when I was 14. And again by a temple-worthy priesthood holder at 15.

Of course it was all my fault 'cause all women are sluts who are just asking for it if their ankles are visible.

So after I left, I was extremely promiscuous because I figured it didn't matter anymore. I already had a reservation for me in Outer Darkness, no decent guy would ever want a licked cupcake, what was the point of trying to be virtuous?

I'd already been taught that my only value was tied to my virginity and now that that was gone, I obviously had no value. To anyone.

I am still struggling with that mindset. I still do not value myself because I have no idea what it should be or feel like. If anyone has any tips on how to learn to value yourself, I'm all ears.

Holy cats, dogzilla, do you really feel that way about yourself?? If so, my heart goes out to you. I'm a nevermo, so my spiritual upbringing was not the same as yours, and I'm not sure if my words will have the same impact as those from an exmo, but....

You are a woman, a beautiful creation whose real worth has absolutely NOTHING to do with being virgin or not. The glorious nature of womanhood is a process, not a static state. We evolve from childhood innocence to fertility and sexual vitality, to the richness of motherhood (if we so chose) and then to where I am, the wise woman state of menopause when our creative energies move away from reproduction into other endeavours. At no time during that process are we less than at other times, I don't care what anyone else says.

Their are, sadly, many religious institutions, including the Mormon Church, who insist in their dogma that a woman is only pure and acceptable as a virgin, or a legally-bound wife and mother. This is just male-domination bullshit, and is based on the fact that many men (not all, thank the Goddess) are absolutely terrified of female power, especially our sexual power and mystery, and thus want to box it in and control it with all sorts of legalistic definitions as to what is acceptable and what isn't.

Don't let any man, or male-run institution, define your worth, ever, or make you feel less than the wonderful human "becoming" that you are. "Licked cupcake", my ass!

ellenbee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Holy cats, dogzilla, do you really feel that way
> about yourself?? If so, my heart goes out to you.
> I'm a nevermo, so my spiritual upbringing was not
> the same as yours, and I'm not sure if my words
> will have the same impact as those from an exmo,
> but....
>
> You are a woman, a beautiful creation whose real
> worth has absolutely NOTHING to do with being
> virgin or not. The glorious nature of womanhood
> is a process, not a static state. We evolve from
> childhood innocence to fertility and sexual
> vitality, to the richness of motherhood (if we so
> chose) and then to where I am, the wise woman
> state of menopause when our creative energies move
> away from reproduction into other endeavours. At
> no time during that process are we less than at
> other times, I don't care what anyone else says.
>
<snip>

My higher-thinking brain knows all that, and thank you. It was kind of you to say all that to me. My lizard brain, however, is confused because of the many mixed messages we women get all day long, and for me which started as a young mormon girl.

Nothing was or is ever good enough for my parents (or church leaders). I have never heard the words "I am proud of you" in my life, from either of them. I am not often (rarely, if ever, really) told that I'm smart, independent, beautiful, funny, talented, admirable, inspirational, whatever, by anyone close to me.

Most people lead with criticism (I'm speaking in generalities now) rather than praise or reinforcement. Most of the time, in general, when people come at you with support or encouragement, it's with a hidden self-serving agenda (in my experience). You can trust very few people to tell you you're awesome and mean it. So you have to tell you you're awesome and mean it. And if you don't value yourself, people will just walk all over you... because they can, because you let them.

So I wasn't saying that I *still* think I'm only worth my hymen -- just that was the message when I was developing into an awesome woman, and at that developmental stage, it's hard to separate out the garbage messages later. What I'm saying now is it appears to me that I am only worth whatever I can do for someone else, to other people, and I am struggling to be worth more to myself. Because that IS a crap message and I am more awesome than that. I just have trouble accepting my awesomeness and thinking that I'm awesome because I've spent my lifetime being told I'm not whatever enough by other people. The church taught me how to devalue myself. Now I'm trying to figure out how to un-do that damage. Unfortunately, telling me that I should doesn't really work. ;>)

I've veered way off the trail with this post, but I thought I should respond. I appreciate your kind words, ellenbee.

1) Except for messing around with a missionary companion, totally abstinent. Until AGE 47!

2) Just starting to date again and have never been remorseful about any of the hookups I have had (just a few) even though they were with guys I didn't know or care to become friends with in the future. Once I've figured myself out sexually I'll know whether I'm headed for more of the same, for a long-term monogamous partnership, or something in between.

1. I was abstinent until I turned 18 which is basically about the same time I stopped attending TSCC. Although, I did fool around with some heavy petting before then.

2. I have been with four people including my husband. They were my boyfriends at the time as well. I have never had a one night stand.

1. Aside from some steamy make out sessions with previous boyfriends, I was completely abstinent until just before my marriage at 23. Soon-to-be hubby and I couldn't keep our hands off of each other. No intercourse, but there was immense (and very pleasurable) amounts of heavy petting, nakedness, exploratory fingers and mouths, shall I go on?

I felt very guilty about not feeling very guilty about fooling around with hubby before the wedding. I didn't know what to make of it as a TBM. I *should* have felt bad, because I had sinned, right? So, I tried to repent of it a few years after we were married. I hauled hubby along with me, and we went to confess to the bishop (we were in a BYU ward, and the bishop was Wilford Griggs, super nice guy, and co-hort to Hugh Nibley).

I tried to figure out how to make myself feel like I had repented of something when I didn't truly feel like that something was a sin. It was confusing to me. I finally gave up and figured I had repented.

2. Hubby and I are both out of the church now. He is still the only person who has ever had his pecker in my hoo-hah.

If I were currently not married, I suspect that I would date and have monogamous sexual relationships. I seriously doubt that I am the type to be promiscuous, whether in or out of the church.

1. Was a virgin and abstinent due to religious upbringing and shyness through my conversion and leaving TSSC. Managed to make it a whole month and a half without masturbating as a TBM while dating a gal I really liked, but went back to it when she dumped me.

2. As soon as I left, I found a gal via online dating who was totally happy to fix the virgin problem for me. (27 at the time.) Been with four women total, including my wife.

Was whacking like a madman at 11. Messing around with other guys at 12 or 13 and was pretty active at that until 16. Continued whacking like a madman right up to mission. Had a brief moment with a companion and a few roomates at the Y. A few other encounters in my 20's with both sexes and got married. Have been monogamous ever since.

1. Ohhhhh man was I not abstinent. Disturbingly not so. No no no.

2. Ironically, once I left, I've been a LOT more under control. I'll of course proceed like a normal American male in any dating situation now, but kinds of things I did while I was an LDS member I don't do now. I feel I'm far better at being a monogamous partner in a relationship, and a lot more sexually healthy. I still have the sex drive of a madman, though.

1. Abstinent (except for masturbation "problem"). Being gay and closeted, the no sex before marriage rule makes the church an ideal place to be social: my making no sexual advances on women made me "worthy", not "weird". Lost my virginity to a man when I was 24, stopped attending soon after that and never talked to a bishop about my "transgression". Then the church was big behind Prop 22 in CA and I removed my garmies and made the decision to go inactive. Didn't find out the truth of the fraud until years later, though. But I digress...

2. Once I was comfortable in my own skin as a gay man, I went through a decidedly slutty phase. That may have been in reaction to the new found lack of mormon guilt, or the new found self acceptance and curiosity of being openly gay, or both. Nowadays, I am single and pretty damn comfortable with it. I still have that pesky masturbation "problem" and I have sex when I want to with whom I want to! I'm no longer a slut, I'm much more discriminating these days.