I hope it's okay if I post here. I'm not Mormon, have never been Mormon, and have only known (barely) a few Mormons in my life. But I'm a religious studies nerd, and Mormonism is my current interest. I was hoping I could ask a few questions. I've been lurking here for awhile, and you all seem like knowledgeable, friendly people, so if you don't mind the intrusion, here we go...

I'm wondering if someone can explain to me the Mormon concept of Heaven. I spent 12 years in Catholic school (as a non-Catholic), and I admit that the prospect of spending an eternity enduring unending torment is a mighty effective way to get a confused kid to consider one's religious point of view.

But as I understand the Mormon concept of Heaven, the worst punishment I'm facing is being consigned to a lower level of Heaven, right? And if I did "see the light" and end up in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, I'd spend eternity birthing spirit babies, right? So I guess my question is...so? I mean, how is that an effective tactic? Am I supposed to be frightened of the idea of going to a lower level of Heaven? And since none of my family and friends are Mormon, if I did make it to the top, so to speak, wouldn't I be spending eternity without them? How is that appealing? And why would I want to spend eternity as a brood mare, anyway?


I'm not sure how much sense that makes, but I guess I just don't see the pitch here. The Mormon concept of Heaven seems to lack the punch of say, roasting over a spit for eternity. What am I missing?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 05:43PM by curiousnevermo.

Highest degree of glory you get to be with your family forever, make new family members, and reside over your own planet/universe.

So, for never mo converts, you are leaving your family behind forever with the chance of making a new family you can be with forever.

But thinking about it deeper.

With your family forever, you will not be completely with them because they'll have their own universes to create.

Also with the new spirit children you have, you'll send them down to their own version of earth and only a handful of them will ever return.

No, thinking about it deeper, it doesn't make much sense.

You're not missing anything. Members generally don't go past the "forever family" part. If they got past the shallow thinking and asked serious logical questions about Gods (the most intelligent and therefore the most logical being around, supposedly) then it would all get fuzzy and they'd default back to "We don't have to know all that now. We just need to endure to the end and it will all be revealed in the next life.

Weren't the Jonestown suicides based on that kind of thinking?

You have to die to find out. Why? We have prophets that talk to God. Why do we have to wait?

The questions would truly never end and they never will because it is impossible to ever make sense of the Celestial Kingdom. (If you think about it) Nyuck Nyuck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 05:54PM by AmIDarkNow?.

Thank you both for your replies.

But seriously...I'm not missing anything? This...doesn't make sense. If I go to the second level of Heaven (the terrestrial level, I think), and my family is there, won't we be together forever anyway?

And if HF can sort things out in the next life, why the need for elaborate rituals? Why on earth should I give up coffee? Just let HF sort things out later...right?

Sorry, I'm confused. My head is spinning.

Families are only together in the Celestial Kingdom. People in the other kingdoms won't recognize anyone.

I just have to post this. More doctrinal craziness out of a prophets mouth, edited and published. Celestial Genitalia.


Lets not forget TK Smoothies ie "Lack of genitailia if you wind in the Telestial Kingdom"


No sex parts unless you make it to the celestial kingdom (unless you were black, then you can be a slave with sex parts)


“In both of these kingdoms [i.e., the terrestrial and telestial] there will be changes in the bodies and limitations. They will not have the power of increase, neither the power or nature to live as husbands and wives, for this will be denied them and they cannot increase. Those who receive the exaltation in the celestial kingdom will have the “continuation of the seeds forever.” They will live in the family relationship. In the terrestrial and in the telestial kingdoms there will be no marriage. Those who enter there will remain “separately and singly” forever. Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be – neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection.

(Doctrines of Salvation. vol. 2, pg. 287-288.)”
Please note that this is “Doctrine”.


I Wonder How He Knows This?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 07:53PM by AmIDarkNow?.

Your questions on the Celestial Kigndom?

There are 3 Kingdoms.
1st is the highest, and is known to be the Celestial Kingdom.
2nd is the middle, and is known to be the Terrestrial Kingdom.
3rd is the lowest, and is known to be the Telestrial Kingdom.

It depends on what choices your family members have made, you can all end up in different kingdoms, but If you and your family live worthy your entire life, you will be together forever. But I do have to point out if you and your family end up in the bottom two kingdoms, you will still know who they are. If you end up in the Celestial, and your family ends up in the middle or bottom, you can visit them, and people in the Terrestrial, can visit the people in the Telestrial. But Telestrial people can not visit any of the kingdoms. God would never take you away from your family, unless, you committed a crime, or family member committed a crime, because they would not end up in the kingdoms, the would end up in the place of darkness called Hell.

Hope this makes sense to you!

Hey! Aren't you supposed to be referring these kinds of questions to your Stake President? I'm tellin' your bishop on you!

If you don't go there, you can't see dad anymore. Or heavenly mother.

Only in the highest degree of heaven will you be able to enjoy sex and get celestial orgasms. That is part of being a god. Those spirit babies won't make themselves you know, you have to actually procreate. If you end up in any of the lower kingdoms you won't even be able to even masturbate because you won't have any sex organs.

While in the womb, we had no idea or reference as to what our existence would be like after we were born. We also have no idea what life in spiritual worlds would be like after we die, and even if we did, words would be useless in trying to describe them. IMO, anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a few cards short of a deck.

Robin got it right above.

There is only one of the 3 kingdoms where you are going to spend eternity with God - the Celestial.

To most Christians, is it really a form of heaven to spend eternity in the Terestial or Telestial without God?

I think if we put it to people that way, they'll see that the bottom 2 kingdoms are lovely little forms of hell. We shouldn't let TBMs get away with describing all 3 levels as desirable.

That said, I think a lot of finally saw the light when we realized as Mormons that didn't really want to go to the Celestial. It would be as boringly offensive as an endless fast and testimony meeting.

Basically God bought into Universal AmWay. If he gets 1/3 of the host of his heaven to buy in, and they create a universe. Then 1/3 of each of those hosts of heaven get deified and create more gods our God moves up a rung in the whole galactic pyramid scheme. My mortal mind cannot begin to imagine how large that MLM is. But, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it will one day be large enough to fill the universe and small enough to k-mail (kolob email) to all your friends. Assuming you make it to the kolob klub!

I never heard the idea you wouldn't recognize your family members in the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms. I just heard they wouldn't be your family any more. Your father would just be a friend - your children would just be your friend - your spouse wouldn't be any more special than any other friend. The telestial kingdom is supposedly just for sinners and the terrestrial kingdom is for good people who didn't accept God's true church but weren't bad people. Both places are better by far than earth.

But the celestial kingdom is the big deal because you get to be with your family forever, you get to have sex with your spouse forever, you'll get to keep having more babies forever and if you are a man, you'll probably get more wives in the celestial kingdom too. Because today's Mormons may not want to admit it, but it's a firm, unspoken belief that more women than men will attain celestial glory and be sealed to a worthy man there as their second, third, twenty-nineth wife or whatever. Mormons believe there will be polygamy in heaven as much as they believe there will be sex in heaven - they just don't want to talk about it.

Talking tongue in cheek here, but if you think Mormons don't believe in hell, you should visit Utah. Because eternity with a bunch of "worthy" Mormons, based on the times I've lived with them in predominantly Mormon Utah sounds pretty close to hell for me. I'd take the Catholic hell any day over a heaven crammed full of Mormons. Some of them are OK but when they are in the majority, all hell breaks loose.

Oddly, the "Celestial Kingdom" is contingent upon libido. Sexual intercourse is the distinguishing characteristic of the upper level of Mormon afterlife.

Early on the Mormon church encouraged multiple mating partners for men. This was a benefit for male members of the cult. It never did much for the women.

So a Mormon man with a high sex drive can build a future harem of wives. Men capable of loving just one woman are sentenced to lower kingdoms according to "the principle."

Does any of this sound rational?