My wife, kids, and I resigned from the Cult in 2003. I am the oldest of 8 siblings, a BIC RM, MIT, EQP, etc, etc., and my last calling was Stake Mission President. I understand the missionary program, how the missionaries prey on the weak and unfortunate, and I have worked with our Stake's YM, YW, and other leaders in reactivating and converting youth in my earlier days. I am a salesman by career having reached the top 10% in my profession and have trained hundreds of my peers in basic and advanced sales techniques. I see the church's missionary program as nothing other than a free sales force where your employees pay the firm for the opportunity to sell the firm's defective product to an educated and hostile target market.

My son, a recent HS graduate, has a non-member girlfriend who lives across the country. They see each other a few times a year, the last being 3 weeks ago when he attended her Senior Prom. My sister, who lives in the same city, has gone out of her way to fellowship and be friends with the girlfriend. My sister, in her shallow life, normally would have nothing to do with the girlfriend, but since my son is "dating" her I can see the BRT/Commitment Pattern in full force with the girlfriend.

My sister has a daughter a year younger than the girlfriend and the daughter has been putting the pressure on the girlfriend to attend YW activities, come over for dinner on Sundays, and most recently invited her to a baptism for a kid in the Ward. The girlfriend, trying to be nice, always accepts the invitations as she really likes my son and wants to get in good with the family. After the baptism, my sister remarked to the girlfriend, "You know, you are Mormon and just don't know it. You would make a great Mormon." The girlfriend was polite but didn't have a reply.

When my son was back for prom they visited my sister for an afternoon. During the visit the missionaries showed up with, "We were just in the area and thought we'd stop by." My sister invited them in and before long they were in the middle of a missionary discussion. My son, who is well mannered and polite, answered the questions while his girlfriend listened. My sister led most of the discussion and by the time the missionaries were finished they had asked my son and his girlfriend if they would consider getting baptized. My son, knowing our history, told them that he was not interested. My sister upped the ante by telling them that since they were in love, and of legal age, that they should just get married and get baptized at the same time and that she would help support them as they tried to find work and start their lives together. My son declined and told her that he wants to get an education and start a career before he gets married. She said that there was no reason that he couldn't get married, go to college, and start a career at the same time. She brought up my wife and I who were married when my wife was 18 and I was 21. My son again told her no and she then asked the girlfriend what she thought.

The girlfriend said that she wasn't ready to get married either. My sister said that at the least they should get baptized together before he left to return home so they would have something to build on as they grew in their relationship.

They both said NO and she said that she knows that eventually they will get baptized and married in the temple someday.

My son is completely against anything LDS but the girlfriend likes the attention she gets from the YM and YM in the Ward. She likes the dances, girls camp, activities, etc., and doesn't see what the big deal is and one church is as good as another.

He is flying back to visit again in July and I want to set my sister straight before he arrives. One part of me says that he's 18 and can make his own decisions while another part of me says that he's my son and I'll fight to the bitter end before he darkens another meetinghouse door.

So how do I handle this? What would you do if you were in my situation?

Your son was pretty young when you left the church and perhaps doesn't understand the full scope of the deception TSCC engages in. His GF really doesn't understand and is getting sucked in by the fun and attention. Perhaps she needs to be given a reading list - with the idea that she needs to know both sides of the story, not just the happy, friendly presentation. Usually with women, polygamy is enough. Just have them both spend a little time on Richard Packham's site.

Since they are unprepared to deal with your sister, you need to step in. I'm not sure how you can do that without causing her problems but it's your job to protect them from the cult.

wow, your sister is so pushy, man she is messed up and crazy. Tell your son to stay away from her, she is toxic. you need to speak to both of these kids before your son goes to visit the girlfriend

I don't know what your son has been exposed to regarding church history, but make sure he knows all the meat. It's one thing to not be interested in the church and another thing to see what it really is.

The girl friend is being force fed the milk faster than a baby calf being turned into veal. One way or another she has got to be shown the meat.

You can rail on the sister all you want, but it will go nowhere. The kids need knowledge.

Make up a Cliff's notes version for them. Just the facts on Joseph and his wives ought to get the ball rolling.

The girl needs the facts. The nazis had nice dances and picnics too.

motherfreaker, that's not a long post by RfM standards - LOL!

Anyway, your sister does have serious boundary issues, like many TBMs. The idea that she would try to talk to your son while he is out of town, away from his support group, and going through all the feelings of young love. He's disoriented and confused at best. Oh, how they love to prey on the unsuspecting.

And that poor girlfriend. The process of love-bombing that she is going through sounds like the process sexual predators use on their victims. It's called "grooming." Anybody who looks it up will be astonished.

I'll also put this out there, it sounds like the whole afternoon was a c*ck block, too. Get them thinking about whether Mormonism is the way to go, and they have less time to be alone, make out, etc.

The last time I heard somebody say that a young couple that is just dating should get baptized and get married, it was a guy I used to party with. He had found religion because he wanted to marry a divorced woman. The girl he was trying to force in to getting baptized and married was his step-daughter. My friend used to party a lot and dated a lot of women in his time. He knew it was only a matter of time before the step-daughter and the boyfriend were alone long enough to seal the deal.

He rationalized it in his mind that it was better to rush in to marriage so that having sex would not be a sin. Never mind that fact that they might not be ready for it, and it would have serious consequences down the line if it went sour.

T-Bone

You might wanna do some damage control with the son and girlfriend - make sure they both know that letting Sister Bizzieboddy Biznatch and her daughter "love bomb" and push them around is NOT going to help them "get in good" with the rest of the family.

THEN it is time to turn up the heat under little Sister B. Biznatch and offspring. Might wanna have son and son's girlfriend in the room and put her on speakerphone so she is aware that ain't nobody going behind anybody's back no mo'. Tell her and her BiT daughter in the politest way possible to Butt The Fuck Out of your son's and his girlfriend's lives with that lyin' and manipulatin' shit. Throw in an Or Else or two. Talk about some Blood Atonement takin' place. Lay down some righteousness on those bitches.

We raise our kids to respect others but often we fail to proper teach them how to effectively deal with adults that overstep personal boundaries. We need to teach them how to set personal boundaries and how to recognize when another person even when it’s an adult in a position of authority has overstepped those boundaries.

This is a clear case where young people need to be taught how to say “NO” to adults and mean it. They also need to know how and when to repeat “NO” in not so polite terms to the adult.

While they’re learning to do this effectively we also need to know when we as parents need to step in when there’s adults that are taking advantage of the kids naivety.

Be prepared to tell the offending party they’ve overstepped boundaries and to butt-out and leave your kids alone or there consequences to pay.

This auntie is waaaay out of line! Talk to her about that.

Your son is very capable and smart partly because of your good influence. However, the girl hasn't had that good traning and experience. Mormons draw in the gullible and those without the insight to see through their manipulations. The young lady is a sitting duck and needs some guidance from you, your son, and possibly from her parents. Do what you can to see that she receives whatever help and support is available to keep her out of the clutches of a destructive religious cult.

Please!

He's flying there. Use that money to have her fly to you'all? If you can provide safe surrounding for her, wouldn't that be better?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2012 09:34AM by nomilk.

If she asks why not, tell her straight up that he doesn't want the missionary routine and auntie pressure again.

Call the girl's parents, explain what happened and apologize. I'd want to know if someone was pressuring my daughter to marry this young.


Role play with your son how to handle the next episode. He might want to politely bring up the reasons you left the church, for example.

I'm guessing sis lives with your parents, or has free access there, and you have no real control over her contact because that is the only place you feel safe sending your kid to stay.

Something like:

"I was deeply disturbed to learn that you attempted to influence my son into your religion when he was away from home and his support group. I don't find this caring or loving in the slightest, rather it reminds me of the predatory behavior of a wolf-pack culling the stragglers. I think you need to learn about proper boundaries and a little bit about how to truly be loving and caring for others. This was the same sort of behavior a sexual predator engages in. It makes me sad to see my sister using predatory, abusive behaviors."

But you can't tell her what she can and can't do. You might also consider whether or not your son would be offended by you bringing this matter up and whether or not it's really worth the hysteria and drama that's bound to follow.

Just my two cents.

Rebeckah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something like:
>
> "I was deeply disturbed to learn that you
> attempted to influence my son into your religion
> when he was away from home and his support group.
> I don't find this caring or loving in the
> slightest, rather it reminds me of the predatory
> behavior of a wolf-pack culling the stragglers. I
> think you need to learn about proper boundaries
> and a little bit about how to truly be loving and
> caring for others. This was the same sort of
> behavior a sexual predator engages in. It makes me
> sad to see my sister using predatory, abusive
> behaviors."
>
> But you can't tell her what she can and can't do.
> You might also consider whether or not your son
> would be offended by you bringing this matter up
> and whether or not it's really worth the hysteria
> and drama that's bound to follow.
>
> Just my two cents.

Except "you need to" is a phrase that implies you are telling the other person what to do, i.e., you know better than they do with respect to what they NEED.

Please don't ever use this phrase unless you actually mean "need." When people come at me telling me what I NEED to do, I get really prickly. And then I tell them where they NEED to go. ;>)

Very well said, Rebeckah!

T-Bone

As a mother who cares about her daughter getting an education and marrying a more mature age, I'd want you to tell me if your relative was trying to influence my daugther otherwise.

Thank you all for the suggestions. After consideration here's what I did and the result thereof.

I sent the girlfriend a very detailed email about what is happening and why. I told her that the church sees every non-member as a prospective convert and that until she puts her foot down the attention and harassment will continue. I also sent her a link to Richard Packham's website.

I took my son out for milkshakes and we talked about what my sister is attempting to accomplish. He was only 8 years old when we left the church so I filled him in on some basic doctrine. He promised me that he would never join the church no matter what his girlfriend does or how much pressure his aunt places on him.

A few hours later my phone rang and it was the girlfriend and she wanted to talk about my email. We talked about what the missionaries would tell her and what they would leave out. I told her about the temple. I told her about the MTC. I told her about Joseph Smith's child brides. And then I told her about temple marriage- and how her parents would not be allowed to attend her wedding. She cried.

We talked a little longer and she assured me that she ***WOULD NEVER*** join the LDS Church. Not in her life. And she said that she was disappointed how my sister would manipulate her and use her relationship with my son as a way to try and convert her. She will be scaling back the relationship with my sister's family in a big way.

She will be flying out to visit us for a few days before my son returns the favor. They both hold full-time jobs and are able to pay for their trips themselves. While she is here we will be breaking out the temple clothes and garments from storage and letting her see what she is in for if she decides to give the cult a shot.

Finally, I am not going to mention anything to my sister. She will tear herself up wondering what she did to lose a golden investigator and what sin she committed to enable herself to lose the missionary spirit. I'm serious. She will blame it on herself and work harder to be a better wife and YW President so that when the next potential convert pops up she'll be more prepared. She'll most likely take two anti-depressants a day for a while to help her cope with the new pressure.

Thanks for the update. I think that is an excellent solution! Pre-empting the "missionary message" by telling your son and his girlfriend the rest of the story gives them the opportunity to figure out the full measure of Mo craziness all on their own.

Best wishes.