I've been practicing catholism for the last 12 years. Now I don't believe in the bible anymore. I don't know if I believe in God anymore either. I just don't know what to think. I'm 32 years old shouldn't I have figured this out by now? And if I don't believe in God what do I believe in?

You don't necessarily have to take the Bible literally to be a Catholic, so don't worry about that part. As far as God, try not to stress and take your time. Nobody knows for sure and you will eventually figure it out or simply accept that you don't know and can't do anything about it.Maybe talking with your priest would help.

But that is no reason to take either as anything but stories.

As soon as anyone stops taking scripture literally it loses all moral authority. As soon as it is open for interpretation, it can be interpreted to mean opposing ideas depending on the morals or the needs of the interpreter.

Then again, it takes some major reinterpretation to make the story of Lot offering his daughters up for gang rape into a moral story.

Que Bona:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2012 10:05PM by MJ.

jenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And if I don't believe in God what do I believe in?


Let your beliefs follow the evidence. If there is no evidence, then find comfort in the rational approach. A commitment to the approach will allow you to grow more comfortable with uncertainty.

I've found comfort in beliefs that stand on the solid ground of evidence rather than magic thinking with no basis in evidence or reality whatsoever.

No matter the religious organization, if someone tells what to believe and what is true, hold on to your wallet. They are really are after your time, energy and money. Don't let yourself become host to another parasitic religious organization.

You don't have to completely deny the existence of a God, you can claim that you are "agnostic". This basically means that you don't beleive that we humans have the technology, rationality, or capability to know if God exists. You should wikipedia agnostic to get a sense of what it means.

As cheesy as this may seem, this video on YouTube has helped me immensely as well as reading scientific journals, magazines, and books:

"Science Saved My Soul"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk

From my experience, the universe and the world has become 1,000 times more beautiful and aweinspiring. I just can't get enough of what happens around us. Each month, I read 3 scientific journals, a few scientifica magazines, The Economist, Wall Street Journal, and a few new books from University publishing houses on new science, math, philosphy, and biology. After doing this for a few months, I came to like a pinnacle of belief where I knew that if I kept learning and chewing up more information that I would no longer have any solid beleifs beyond just the normal "staying healthy" and being a good person.

When I finally plunged into the depths of "anti-belief" I discovered a whole new world; I discovered that I understood math and science better; I understood more about philosophy and society; I started to care about people in a deeper more heart felt way; I'd see people suffering and think, "How is it that mankind and humanity has come accept this suffering? Why aren't we helping to solve these problems, Why is religious Dogma accepted as reality when a person is freaking dying right before my eyes! What is wrong with these people!"; I've learned to learn so quickly that beleifs really no longer stick to my "brain guts" but rather the system of belief formation and knowledge creation, like a "master key" to the knowledge of the universe has unlocked my ability to think for myself, form my own opinions and discover amazing things about life.

Once you dive into the beautiful world of "learning for yourself" you will finally realize that there have been some unbelievable men and women in history who have changed the world forever without needing God or religion as a sidekick. Many did believe in a God, but not so much a "go to church and pay tithing God". Take for example Newton and Leibniz, both mathematicians both believed in some sort of higher power; however, they didn't just call it good and go home, they kept on searching and in that search they disocverd something wonderful ... Calculus! Once you figure out that amazing discoveries happen to those who are willing to jump off the pinnacle of belief, then your whole world opens up to something unbeleivably spectacular. Just talking about this gives me the chills and reenforces my hatred and disdain for religion and what it tried to do to me.

Anyway, good luck, I don't know if I've helped you. I'm in a PHD program centered on some hardcore mathematics, physics, anc computer programming so I tend to be really far out there with math and science so my style probably doesn't work for most. Hang in there, it gets 1000000% better! It really does!

Great quote about Newton:

"Newton was not the first of the age of reason. He was the last of the magicians, the last of the Babylonians and Sumerians ... Isaac Newton, a posthumous child born with no father on Christmas Day, 1642, was the last wonder child to whom the Magi could do sincere and appropriate homage... Why do I call him a magician? Because he looked on the whole universe and all that is in it as a riddle, as a secret which could be read by applying pure thought to certain evidence, certain mystic clues which God had laid about the world to allow a sort of philosopher's treasure hunt to the esoteric brotherhood... He regarded the Universe as a cryptogram set by the Almighty—just as he himself wrapt the discovery of the calculus in a cryptogram when he communicated with Leibniz. By pure thought, by concentration of mind, the riddle, he believed, would be revealed to the initiate."

on second thought, I remember now that this quote actually has some pretty hefty duty references to Freemasonry, thus the word "initiate", "crptogram", and "secrets"; sorry, I didn't mean for this to be connection to Joseph Smith's bullshit in any way, but Newton, like I think I've explained before, rediscovered Freemasonry and Esoteric philosophy before Joseph Smith. I guess this just goes to show that when you search the universe, you can either change the world for the better, Newton, or start a cult, bang a 14 year old girl, and die a felon, Joseph Smith.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2012 09:33PM by sillysally.

and lights on bright!

Ana

PS. Peddling certainty is a great scam, don't you think. No one knows any more than you do. Connecting to spirituality through Nature (capital N out of respect) is the most healing way and is open to all. Start there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2012 09:53PM by anagrammy.

It's fine to say, "I don't know." We're always taught in religion that they have the answer and there is no other answer. So once we leave, we have this feeling that we should be defining what we believe now.

You don't have to. You can embrace the mystery and study anything which interests you. For myself, I simply say that there must be at least some credible evidence of a thing before I can call it a belief.

I'm going to be 50 this year and I just realized that not only am I an atheist, I was all along. There's no time limit on learning, discovering, reading, researching, and finding your true inner self - don't worry about fitting into a certain time frame or going about it in any certain way. Do what works for you on a schedule that works for you. It's quite the refreshing change from how TSCC operates. :)

That describes me exactly too, introvertedme.

What do you believe in? Yourself honey. Yourself.

Everything you need is right there.

If I had to stick with everything I thought I knew at age 32 I'd be in deep shit.

The older you get, the more you realize, you don't know much. The good thing is, you also realize nobody else knows all that much either.

We hope, we wonder, we think, and we try to find our foundation. I think that's as good as it gets.

I've decided to focus on who and what I love about me and the people around me. That's all that's important in the end.

That is who made it this far.

But I've always been slow in social development. :)

I was 60 when I realized I didn't need imaginary friends anymore, and that living with uncertainty is natural. Religion's reason is mostly because ppl can't handle uncertainty, and will believe a mythology rather than admit that many things can't yet be known. We live in a marvelous age, and it's because of the progress of mankind, not because of god. 1000 years ago, I'd have died at a much younger age. My life would have been mostly miserable. Rather than enjoy my children, most or all of them would have died of disease and malnutrition. The good things of life come from the goodness of us, the humans, not an imaginary world.

Our purpose here is to raise up those who don't yet enjoy the good things, and religion interferes with that. The Mormon corporation is worth 35 billion dollars. They build no clinics in Africa, or schools, or provide micro-loans, etc. and only do a tiny amount of humanitarian work compared to their wealth. Instead, they build expensive temples to do useless ceremonies in, and 5 billion dollar shopping malls. They aren't even a good example of Christianity.

Most of the war and misery on earth has been in the name of religion. They hijack the morality and ethics that are part of us, then they sell it back to us for money.

I didn't fool around with trying a different faith. I jumped right from ChurchCo to atheism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2012 10:26PM by rationalguy.

OMG, Rationalguy, you have explained what the Mormon cult (I don't know about other religions) does, in one sleek sentence:


>>"They hijack the morality and ethics that are part of us, then they sell it back to us for money."

What a racket.

Do you believe in life?
Do you believe in love?
If so, you are lightyears ahead of someone who merely believes in God. Keep the love alive (don't let Mofos kill it) and you will find your answer.

Bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you believe in life?
> Do you believe in love?
> If so, you are lightyears ahead of someone who
> merely believes in God. Keep the love alive (don't
> let Mofos kill it) and you will find your answer.

keep love alive, send it out...

Here's a bit of wisdom that never grows old for me:

"All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten'
by Robert Fulghum


All I really need to know I learned in kindergarten.

These are the things I learned:

Share everything.

Play fair.

Don't hit people.

Put things back where you found them.

Clean up your own mess.

Don't take things that aren't yours.

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

Wash your hands before you eat.

Flush.

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

Take a nap every afternoon.

When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.

Be aware of wonder.

Remember the little seed in the styrofoam cup:
The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.


Everything you need to know is in there somewhere.

The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation.

Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or your government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm.

Think what a better world it would be if all - the whole world - had cookies and milk about three o'clock every afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap.

Or if all governments had a basic policy to always put thingS back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you are - when you go out into the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 08:15AM by davesnothere.

There's a great line about being a Catholic, in a movie I saw recently (can't remember the name). These guys go fishing regularly with their dad, and one day one of the sons makes a nasty remark about the local priest. The father says, "I won't have you talking like that about Father Riley!"

The son says, "Why are you upset, Dad? You don't even believe in God!"

The Dad says, "Yes, but that doesn't stop be from being a good Catholic!"

Catholics are their own bunch aint they!?

Believing every single word in the Bible is not the point of Christianity.

I was NEVER taught that growing up Methodist. We were taught to use our mind, to think and pray and interpret the meaning of the stories.

Isn't that what Jesus did telling parables? They weren't meant to be literal, but to teach you how to "love God and love one another".

How do you interpret the story of Lot giving up his daughters for gang rape into a moral story?

Oh, and remember that the bible INCLUDING the OT is canonized scripture, so no dismissing the OT.

from the OT...

just sayin!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 12:04PM by bignevermo.

If the scripture is to be ignored, why have it canonized as holy?

The story of Lot offering up his daughters for rape is CANONIZED as HOLY SCRIPTURE.

What good is a faith if you can just ignore HOLY SCRIPTURE? If you ignore parts of the Holy scripture are you not really relying on your own morality to pick and choose?

the Christian canon is the NT...at least that is what i have garnered.
It seems the LDS also has their own...

"These canons have been developed through debate and agreement by the religious authorities of their respective faiths. Believers consider canonical books to be inspired by God or to express the authoritative history of the relationship between God and His people. Books, such as the Jewish-Christian Gospels, have been excluded from the canon altogether, but many disputed books considered non-canonical or even apocryphal by some are considered to be Biblical apocrypha or Deuterocanonical or fully canonical by others. There are differences between the Jewish Tanakh and Christian Biblical canons, and between the canons of different Christian denominations. The differing criteria and processes of canonization dictate what the various communities regard as inspired scripture. In some cases where there are varying strata of scriptural inspiration, it becomes prudent even to discuss texts that only have an elevated status within a particular tradition.

This becomes even more complex when considering the open canons of the various Latter Day Saint sects — which may be viewed as extensions of both Christianity and thus Judaism — and the scriptural revelations purportedly given to several leaders over the years within that movement.

just sayin!

So, now your defense is that despite the Bible being proclaimed as Holy through out Christianity, the first half isn't really holy to Christians?

Sadly, the reality is, Yes, the OT is Jewish canon, but it is ALSO CHRISTIAN CANON.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 12:44PM by MJ.

Christianity at it's foundation is a social statement of how people should treat others. Unfortunately all the mysticism, sheep stealing, etc. gets in the way of the original point of being non-judgmental and treating others well.

Lot was rewarded by God for offering to give up his daughters for rape. I take it that this bit of holy canonized Christian scripture is on of those lessons on how to treat people?

I don't disagree with what you are saying at all - I'll try to clarify.

The organization of Christianity as it exists today is a complete and total mess. The Old Testament is the ethics of a completely different civilization thousands of years ago. Lot is one of hundreds of examples. At least part of early Christianity as I see it was an attempt to progress beyond that. In other words Christianity began as a social movement away from the ridiculousness of the Old Testament - the character/person Jesus was a reformer.

Whether someone named Jesus actually lived or if some authors made something up, the primary movement of the 4 gospels was an about face of the "Law of Moses". That about face is what has value. Things like "neither do I condemn you", "love your neighbor as yourself", Jesus ignoring centuries of prejudice, racism, and stupid rules. Ironically the whole cleansing the temple thing seems a protest against using religion for personal gain and power.

Much of the message of Jesus whether a real person holds value. The Old Testament stands in stark contract. Most "Christian" religions seem to miss those good points completely or at least largely.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 11:54AM by bc.

Old books written by bronze age primatives and compiled by politically motivated dark-age despots cannot and should not be taken literally. Read them to understand how the ancients thought and behaved and compare it to the best of today as an example of how we've progressed. Then extrapolate into the future and imagine what we might become.

The same goes for books that are fraudulent 19th century imitations of scripture.

Any book can have value, even if it's as something to react against.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 12:30PM by rationalguy.

Who says you have to know? Or can know? If it is upsetting just chill in nuetral for a while. Eventually you may drift over to the dark side with the rest of us godless heathens.