I am so, so mad about this. Dh has said he isn't interested in going to church regularly, only occasionally so he can say he went. Now he has agreed to let them take our kids once a month to that damn cult. I'm pretty sure he is only doing it to appease his parents and avoid a big fight. I'm frustrated because there is nothing i feel i can do about it. Dh is what i would describe as indifferent to religion. He has no problem with them going to church because he doesn't see how harmful it can be. For example, when i told him how awful The Miracle of Forgiveness is, he just shrugs and says who cares what swk says. He's just a man, my husband will say. He doesn't get it that the church doesn't present the prophets as just men. Lds inc tells you they speak for god and heaven help you if you so much as question them. Anyway, to get back on topic. I feel it is our business as parents to decide where and how often to take our children to church and our inlaws should respect our decision. Instead, he has made it their business to monitor and control church attendance. I'm so at a loss on how to deal with this.

emma Wrote:
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> I'm frustrated because there is nothing i feel i can do about it.

Why? You're the *mother* for crying out loud. Since when do your in-laws get more say over your childrens' religious education (or lack thereof) than you do? Since when does your husband get to decide this issue all by himself?

It sounds like it's time that you and your DH engage in a long overdue conversation about how you want to raise your kids with regard to religion. Tell DH that you know when you're an adult when you are willing to hand your parents their first major disappointment with you. Tell him that they *will* get over it.

If you can't get him to back down on this, you still have the other three Sundays to go to a better church(one with a good program for kids) if you wish or to do fun things. I wonder which the kids will prefer? LOL. I do agree with the other posters that you should have a say in this. Of course your husband gets a say too, but the in laws shouldn't.

I would go yourself and tell them they have no business taking them to church and the parental decision you both have made is that they're not going (I'm assuming you're completely financially independent of these people). Tell them that therefore they have no permission to take them to church. If that's not good enough, call the bishop and tell him directly that your children do not have your consent to be there.

+1

I wish My former fil were still alive so I could have this round with him! No way will my children step foot into any of TSCC property. In our custody arrangement I insisted that I have the sole say in religious decisions. I'm grateful that my ex is too lazy to go to church, but I have it in writing should he ever wake up feeling motivated one Sunday.

Liveinlou Wrote:
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>I'm grateful that
> my ex is too lazy to go to church, but I have it
> in writing should he ever wake up feeling
> motivated one Sunday.

Hahahahahaha. That's funny.

;o)

Don't have them ready and take them to the park instead.

This would be the time I'd cut the in-laws out of our lives.
Period.

As a last resort, move heaven and earth to locate to another city/state.

going during their 3 hour block.

You don't even have to tell them ahead. Of course, that's the passive aggressive method.

I would caution you against talking to the in laws. That is DH's job. But you can sure tell him what you think. You don't have to justify it, or prove the church is bad. It is enough that you don't want this to happen.

Do the kids go to the in laws' house once a month? How will they gain access to the kids?

How about telling the in laws that you've joined another church?

That would be awesome except that he basically told them it was ok without asking me. I take them to a liberal protestant church the other 3 sundays so hopefully that will help undo some of the damage of tscc, especially since they ordain women and we have a lady priest. The most ridiculous part of this is that there is so much that both me and dh disagree with that the mormons teach. Me and dh believe: book of mormon isn't literal, evolution, masturbation is ok and i actually want to encourage it since my kids are girls and that is how girls learn how to orgasm, wearing sleeveless shirts are ok, tea is ok, sex outside of marriage is ok as long as she is being safe, and i could go on. Why are he bothering to send her when she is just going to come home and have mom and dad contradict everything she gets taught? Pretty pointless. My only comfort is that it will end up being a train wreck when the lds leaders figure out we aren't supporting church doctrine in our home and they might not want our kids to come to church after all. I have also considered moving to another state once dh finishes degree.

If he told them without asking you first then he overstepped. You are not bound by his (probably weak-kneed) decision. Tell him you will not go along with it. Probably he has made concessions to his parents before, yes? The going to church will be first, then related activities; it's a slippery slope. You can be sure your in-laws intend it to be.

There is NO way to undue the harm of mormon indoctrination other than preventing it from happening.

That's like saying someone is allowed to slap your kids around one week a month as long as you're allowed to hug them the other three weeks. The hitting leaves emotional scars just like indoctrination does.

Besides, that one week a month will be highly orchastrated and artificially intense. I've seen this dozens of times. The mormon kid "friends," teachers, and others make specific plans to get maximum impact from the limited time they have with the targeted children. They sometimes give them special sparkling badges to wear with words like "Sunday Star of the Week" and hand out prizes of candy or toys to the "poor" children suffering with wayward parents.

Your indifferent DH needs to realize that PRIMARY IS DAMAGING.

Maybe you can spell it out for him. Children are playing happily with their parents and then they go to Primary in the sweetest melody sing songs of how kind and dear their parents are and how important it is for them to learn ALL THAT THEY MUST DO to live with them in the hereafter.

At four and five years old they are being taught this:

Johnny chose to be baptized so he could always be with his parents.

Johnny made the good choice. He saved his nickel for his mission.

Mary obeys her parents and plans to get married in the Temple when she grows up.

Mary knows that motherhood is her best life plan.

Angels sing in heaven when someone is baptized.

They will choose to be baptized one day and make their parents so happy.

Just like Cheryl said, hugs for three weeks a month does not make up for one week of beatings. Read right here on RfM the heartbreaking posts from parents who thought LDS Primary, or Boy Scouts was a social opportunity for their kids to hang out with kids with good values.

I still think of the mother who wrote that her 12 year old gave weeping testimonies every month and the ward just loved him. They all thought he was so SPIRITUAL he inspired just EVERYONE and wasn't he going to be a marvelous missionary!

We all know the one weeping the most in that audience is his exmo mother. With regret. She should have put her foot down when he was five and not let him ever be singing,

"I hope they send me on a mission...."


Anagrammy

You need to work this out with your husband, not the in laws. He has no right to make this decision on his own, but then you need to take his wishes into consideration too.

"Do you want to explain that to your parents or should I?"

You have every right to be frustrated. What is it with Mormon men who marry? They just can't cut the tie to mommy and daddy.This is very odd that he trusts their opinion more than his spouse's. His parents should stay out of it. And I mean OUT. YOU need to be firm since religious upbringing is to be a parent's decision and if there are two they must agree.

Just make sure you talk to them, every single time they go, ask them what they learned and immediately counter anything that could be fearful to them.

I had the most wonderful grandpa in the world. I hate that I had to have sadness and fear my entire childhood about the fact that my grandpa couldn't be with us in heaven because he didn't go to church, even though he was a convert. And my grandmother drank tea so she was out too. It could really be harmful to a child to fear not being in heaven with their parents because their parents don't go to church. And even if you counter it, they could be confused wondering who is right. I don't see any good that comes out of taking a child to a mormon church when the parents are not TBM.

Looks like this is one of those times. He made this decision without even talking to you about it - What the hell? I say it's time to inform him just where the bear comes down the tree!

Put it this way - say he told your kids that they don't need to take their lifejackets along on a boat trip with the gparents, they're good swimmers, and chances are they won't fall overboard, but you didn't know about it. Oh dear, what to do?? Guess!

This is the same kind of thing. It's time to go to bat for your children's sake. He's acted like a boob - time for you to act like an adult parent.

Yeah, I know I insulted him, but for dog's sake, you need to stop acting like you're somehow second class.

He isn't religious and doesn't care about anything but not upsetting his parents. That's poor criteria for training them into mormonism which teaches them to mistrust their mom and dad.

You are not powerless. If you do not want your kids to go, you say no.

Tell your husband to call his parents and state that they will not be going. If he refuses, YOU make the call. Specifically say that you are very angry that they agreed to this with your husband without consulting you, and that you do NOT give permission for your children to attend ANY religious ceremony if you are not present.

Let the fight come. These are your children - it's your job to protect them, especially if your husband would rather placate your parents than see to your kids' well being.

*his parents, that is.

You are only as powerless as YOU allow yourself to be. You are the parent. If your husband has not grown up enough and still does everything his Mommy and Daddy say then you will have to be the adult. Adults protect their children. Time to put your Big Girl unders on and take care of business.

I'd be ticked if DH did that. My husband sound similar to your in that he can't see Mormonism as a harmful "religion". His attitude is "it may not be what it claims to be, but what religion is? I wish the kids were going to church to learn some morals." He doesn't realize morals are taught in the home and that our kids are more moral than most of their Mormon friends because they've had to think thru their beliefs. DH really doesn't see any reason the kids can't go to things at church and will occasionally encourage them to do so - but he doesn't make an issue about it.

If you can't get on the same page as DH about the religious parameters for the children, the next best thing is to talk to the kids about what they learned at church, using the phrase "What do YOU think about that?" Or ask "does that make sense to you?" If your kids have to associate with Mormons, as mine do occasionally, you might as well point out the problems they see rather than allowing them to believe that the bad teachings and bad behavior of Mormons is normal. Don't let them become immune to awkward Mormon behavior and see it as acceptable. And be sure and point out the good things they do too - otherwise the kids will start tuning you out as a religion-basher.

But those suggestions are second best - the best thing is to find a way for the kids to not attend at all and that's something you have to try to work out with DH.

Ca girl are you going to exmo conference in october? If you are, i think it would be nice to meet up are ojr situations are very similar.

I appreciate what you are saying, but i am not going to stand up to his parents behind his back. We need to be together on this standing up to them as a couple. And that means i need to figure how to convince him how dangerous the church is. I have tried to do this, many times, and each time it feels like i am beating my head against a brick wall. As a small step in the right direction, i am planning to initiate a conversation about how upset i am about the situation. I will post on this as soon as i can. I will try to make it happen hopefully in next few days. I can't go on being this angry and not say anything to dh. Wish me luck. I also took our copy of miracle of forgiveness, ripped the pages out and threw it in the trash. Maybe that was petty, but it felt soooo good. I replaced it with combatting cult mind control.

So don't do it behind his back. Bring him to the conversation.

Good for you, and good luck! :)

They went behind your back and got your husband to agree to an ureasonable proposal.
Doesn't that give you pause to think?

If their intentions were harmless they would have asked BOTH of you.
They know exactly what they are doing.

Mark my words, you will have further problems down the road with these people if you don't nip their attempts in the bud.

You may want to state very clearly "My children are going with me on Sundays and that's final".

There is no living in peace with a cult.

Glo, i absolutely see it for what it is, in my last post on this thread i said i would be having a conversation with dh about this. I am going to bring up the fact that i have been disprespected as a parent and that this is undermining our marriage. Then i will try my hardest to explain why the church is so dangerous and i don't want them to go. I may have to break out the c word on him, but honestly that scares me to death. I will post by thurs about this. Tue and wed are dh weekend so may not be able to post.

Just prepare your kids to have some great responses:

My mom says that Jesus is made up just like Santa Claus.

My mom says that Joseph Smith is a pedophile.

Just get them trained to say 10 or so things like that and they'll kick them out of class...

hee hee

Hahahaha that will most definitely do the trick...

Grow a backbone and stand up to your husband rather than using an internet board to avoid doing so.

I agree that you should stand up to them and protect your kids. They will be "taught" and instilled with fear and/or shame. The church does not tolerate believing things other than what it teaches, or believing halfway. You will not be able to "counteract" the indoctrination with rational thought because for the church things are black or white, no gray area allowed. Your inlaws need to respect your authority and decisions as parents, ESPECIALLY since you feel so strongly about this. If you give in now, think of the liberties they will take in future...

Consider this, too: Your inlaws don't want your children to go "once a month". They want them to go every Sunday, plus activities, etc, and grow up to be good Mormons. This is how they start. "Just once a month", then "Just for this fun activity", then, "oh but they have friends at church now, you don't want to separate them from their friends!" And think of what your children are being taught all this time! Please come back and tell us you stood up for your kids!

Thanks for all the replies. With dh allowing me to take kids to my church, he won't find it acceptable fo me to tell him they can't go to his church too. But once he is in a job where he is no longer working sundays, i am going to tell the inlaws he will be taking them to church. Since he is too lazy to go to church himself, they won't be going anymore. I'll make sure to return and report on the situation. Oh and i will make sure my daughter gets an unvarnished version of church history. Good luck trying to convert them when they know js married 14 girls. And there is nothing my inlaws can do about that.

Most kids only go if they have to. If they ever wake up and say they don't feel like it I'd say my kids don't want to. It's a boring place to go. Or I'd set up fun events and say, "Bye kids! I'll be at the zoo but will be back by the time you are finished".

Either way, your in-laws are seriously interferring in your marriage.

If Dh works on Sundays,what business of theirs is it to take the kids to the Mormon church when you, the parent, already take them to your own church?

Better watch yourself.
Recognize this for what it really is - a full frontal assault.
Letting the situation slide will only encourage them more, they won't leave you alone.

Insist that the kids go with YOU every Sunday.
You are much better off breaking off relations with them over this issue than folding and handing your kids over to them.

Once you give them an inroad, you will lose.

Why would you want to rape their innocent minds with all those hogwash fairy tales and lies under any circumstances?

What the inlaws are doing is an old cult ploy - they want to take your kids to their meetings in hopes of convincing them that Mormonism is superior to any other religions.

Don't be at a loss, there is no need to talk to them behind your husband's back.

A firm HELL NO will do.
Let your husband deal with his parents' reaction.

They are deliberately undermining you to your children and also driving a wedge into your marriage.
Cults do that, wise up.

The church you take them to is good enough.

Also, this is YOUR time to parent, not your in-laws time.
They are sending the message that your decisions are not good enough.

Mormons would raise the roof if JWs or anyone else came around trying to pull their children away.

Your husband's parents are overstepping their bounds. Put them in their place while you still can.

This is not the time to be nice or civilized about their behavior, unless you want to see their efforts escalate.