Which is unusual. My children are with their dad today, and we all go to the same ward.

This morning my son called before church started to ask if his dad could bring him over to get a dress shirt (he said that he was going to "get the one that belongs at dad's). I said of course he could.

I was about ready to leave when he got here.

My kids both stormed through the door, didn't even say hello, and I stood their in disbelief. My daughter changed her shoes, and I went to my sons room to say hello at least. He was looking thru his closet, and has three dress shirts. All three I bought for him....varying sizes, because he's in that odd gap between boys and men's sizes. Anyway, I didn't see one from his dad's house, because you know, moms keep a useless inventory of clothing and sizes and etc in their minds.....lol.

So I told him he could wear whatever one he wanted, as along as his dad realizes he needs to return it.

My son flew off the handle, grabbed whatever shirt and split......all huffy, didn't say goodbye, and my daughter wasnt much better.

I was so upset by the whole thing, after they left, I went and changed from my church clothes into my lounge clothes......figuring I have better things to do than sit for three hours, bored out of my mind, so that my babies can act like they could care less whether I drop dead tomorrow.

After sitting here, sadly, I realized first of all, that their dad and I should he talking about things like who's clothes belong where and all of that blah blah blah. It is too big of a burden to bear for the kids. So I left my ex a message stating that I would speak to him when the kids call and need such and such when its his week.

Secondly, I have a sneaking suspicion that dad doesn't actually have a dress shirt that fits my son. And he's using me as a Sunday morning scapegoat because his new wife isn't interested in buying my kids things they need at his house.

Thirdly, and my question (finally), is what about the guilt? Guilt for making a deal out of this, guilt for not going to church, guilt for what I percieve as "punishing" my kids by doing a "fine then, I'm staying home from church because you were rude". Was I looking for an excuse to stage home? Maybe.

Should I have gone and acted like nothing bothers me? Which is what I do every damn Sunday.....ugh.

And there is this little part of me that hears some kind of satisfaction in my ex's psyche......of "yeah, that's right kids, your mom isn't at church today, we finally wore her down". That part will probably eat me alive.

I think that it's good that you took a day off from church. Perhaps you should take more of them!

In terms of tracking posessions, it's tough for kids to go back and forth from one parent's house to another. As a teacher, I see this a lot. The backback, the textbook, the notebook, or the homework is always where it shouldn't be. I am very understanding about this. It's not their fault. It's hard enough to ask the average kid to be organized without asking him or her to be organized between two different households.

I would take your kids' behavior with a grain of salt. They were probably just feeling rushed and stressed about getting dressed and getting to church. Wasn't it nice for you to not have that stress today?

Thank you, yes, it was a nice, quiet day. Two of my friends stopped by today, and since kids are with dad, I got to visit with them at length. I also had a nap. It was great. Maybe a little lonely, but good nonetheless.

I had a lot of time to think, all day long, and I'm very seriously considering giving up. I have been on the cusp for a very long time. Longer than most sane people would, I think. I have a lot to consider. Thankfully, my husband supports whatever I choose. He said he will always attend church with me, because he can't stand the thought of me having to go and face "those people" all alone, without him. But he is cool if we never set foot inside church again. For that, I am thankful.

As for my kids, thank you ALL for the support and insight. I have considered just letting church be a thing with their dad. I still fear losing them, and I want to post a separate thread with a specific question. Anyway, it helps a lot to have friends I can't see, who run the gamut of life experiences to share with someone like me, who is sometimes naive and unsure (thanks, Mormonism).

I'm to the point where I can't undo what I've learned here. I always thought I would go back, as a cafeteria style Nom. But I'm slowly coming to realize that it may not be possible.

Ah, the typical chaos of a mormon Sunday morning. I always laughed at the ridiculous hymn that said, "Welcome, welcome Sabbath morning, now we rest from every care." It was always a mad dash to find that missing shoe or whatever. Everyone yelling at one another about being late, blah, blah, blah.

Perhaps it's because my family never really bought into the whole "Saturday is a special day, it's the day we get ready for Sunday" crap. We had fun and/or productive Saturdays, followed by chaotic Sunday mornings until we all decided that enough was enough. Now we all have the kind of Sunday mornings that the hymn talked about..."now we rest from every care." :)

Speaking of which, I need to refill my coffee as I peruse rfm. Happy Sunday!

because you know it is BS. You don't owe the cult any apologies or guilt.

Keeping up appearances can wear people down, because they do not like living a lie, but when we leave they blame us, i.e. we are not "valiant", are apostate, anti-mormon, etc. It is a burden. If the stress is so much you need a break, then you should not feel guilty for taking one.

TSCC divides families, because of its all or nothing approach, but the cult is a fraud that cannot withstand critical thinking, and scrutiny.

Maybe you should consider giving all the kids church clothes to dad. Tell him when they grow out of them he will need to replace them.

The kids can go to church with him when they're with him. When they're with you, go do something fun. Obviously church isn't doing a thing for their attitudes. All it's doing is stressing everyone out.

wonderful idea mia....give all the church clothes to dad and then he must replace them as they grow.

I have to agree with Mia here... you dont care whether the kids go to church or not, so why should you support something that their father wants? If he wants it, he can support it. He can buy all the clothes and make them be reverant in church. It's silly for him to expect you to provide for something HE wants. Dont do it anymore. Turn it over to him.

good advice from everyone. If I could just add one more suggestion: after you give Dad all the church clothes and if you can afford to, fill the empty space in the closet with some new up-to-date, normal, cool clothes that the kids pick out for themselves to wear on your fun times with them.

I surely would not have gone to be within distance of any of them. YOUR kids need a talking to. Sit them down and tell them you are always glad to help but expect some common courtesy and a good "thank you" when you are the one to help. Perhaps they were just stressed out at the home of their Dad before coming to you and just wanted to get Sun. over with. So ask about their state of mind before entering your home.

You did the right thing by not going and sitting there and fuming. And if I were you I would seriously think about ever going back. By doing so you are validating their attendance. Take them hiking, to a craft fair, to other relatives homes or friends homes when you have them on Sun. If he wants them to go to church on Sun. fine....but you don't have to. And who cares what your ex may be saying. Put him out of your mind. I had to deal with mine yesterday on the phone and he is just impossible. Can't believe I was married to him for decades. God takes people out of our lives to protect us. Don't allow him to meddle in at all.

And I agree with summer about the kids moving from home to home. I teach and I had a young girl this yr. at school who was so stressed about it. She had a younger sister as well. The poor little thing just had a hard time adjusting to moving back and forth. I think it was the MOM who was making it hard. And it was so sad. Tell your kids to open up and express what bothers them most and you will try to make things easier when you can'

My aunt got in a fight with her ex-husbands new wife over some clothes that were supposed to be at one house or the other and weren't. The fight resulted in the arrest of both my aunt and my mom. The were charged by the DA but the statute of limitations ran out before the trial.

My cousins and I saw the fight and the arrest and it was horrible.

Remember that they are just clothes. It sounds like your kids are old enough to be managing their own clothes. Make them responsible for having the clothes they need when they need them. What is the big deal that they needed to stop by your house on the way to church?

Sounds like their dad is trying to villainize you. Don't play his games. Smile and hug your kids like nothing happened.

I liked your post because it is clear the love you have for your children.

When I was a kid I often 'hated' my mother, but it usually only lasted for about 10 minutes because there was no doubt she really loved me. She just kept it coming at us.

I think there is a chance the guilt you are feeling is just hurt mixed with frustration...and a little guilt because you made time for yourself. That was a good thing. You've already taken appropriate steps to move forward with your ex. I say you handled it beautifully.

I agree with Mia about the clothes, leave them all with Dad and let him worry about replacing them when needed.

I think it sounds like you are allowing what others think to dictate how you make your decisions. Why should you care whether or not your ex is happy you are or are not at church. I can understand how you may perseive not showing up a church as a victory for him, but honestly at the end of the day, who really cares. Your decisions should be yours, and about what you think is best in that moment, not about how someone else will view you. So you needed a Sunday off. It was valuable time alone to regroup and recharge to deal with life's difficulties. And when children are difficult, sometimes the best thing you can do is take a break and think before you react. There is no need to feel guilty about that.

What's done is done. Decide if you have a lesson to learn and then toss the guilt as far as you can heave it.

Deciding to stay home was good and healthy for you. Not because it will teach your kids any kind of lesson but because church stifles your esteem and enthusiasm for life. Stay home more and worry about it not at all.

How your kids acted is typical of mormon kids when they're facing three hours of mind numbing indoctrination. They sense that their esteem and enthusiam for life will be damaged and they're likely fighting back by being rude and cranky. They know that within the hour they'll be forced to give up their individuality and freedom and act like pious little robot saint units.

Why do you keep going to church???

Let hubby's new wife suffer through the meetings instead.

for many children. I know it's hard not too, but don't take it personally. Even Family psychologists will tell you that the transition time is very difficult for children, i.e. transitioning from mom's house to dad's house (and visa versa) during visitation times. It's stressful to them. Children should be given a chance to wind down and acclimate from location to location.

In the scenario you describe, he had them wound up in a flurry of anxiety because of being late and hurried for church, the new wife is stressed and anxious in the car waiting for the children. There is nothing more stressful than a mormon sunday morning. It's god awful (no pun intended). Put all this on top of changing locations in a rush. Not surprising they didn't show any affection. Trust me, it's normal in that paradigm.

Don't be afraid to take the high road in that situation. I always say to my children (and I'm a guy).."hey where is my hug"..I then gently pull them in and kiss them a few time on the forehead and cheek. Never to I let that moment pass. They need it from you always, and they need you to do that for them. Kids often do not make or take the initiative to show affection.

Hey, don't go to that church anymore. Treat yourself on Sunday morning to relaxation. Do you need some reminders why that stupid cult is the last place you should be at? Go to Mormonthink.com, etc. Why would you want to go see your kids set with them WITH HIS NEW WIFE? OMG that is torture girlfriend. Yikes. Avoid that like the plague. Good luck.